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Aaton Cantar Wired

 
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blestage

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Since: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 13



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:38 am
Post subject: Aaton Cantar Wired
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)

Anyone using the Cantar hard-wired to a video camera with return (ENG-
style)? Just curious how it performs in this configuration. Is the
Line-Out delayed or interrupted while recording? Any feedback would be
appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Brent

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Scott Farr

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Since: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 112



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:51 am
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 27, 7:38 am, blestage wrote:
> Anyone using the Cantar hard-wired to a video camera with return (ENG-
> style)? Just curious how it performs in this configuration. Is the
> Line-Out delayed or interrupted while recording? Any feedback would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Brent

Yes I have done this setup. There is no delay or interruption. I would
suggest using the Line Out Booster cable if you are going to be cabled
otherwise it isn't needed if you are going to be going wireless. If
you don't want to record audio you would just leave the Cantar in PPR.

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Phillip W. Palmer, CAS

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Since: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 19



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:59 am
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> the Line Out Booster cable if you are going to be cabled

Scott (and other Cantar users),

What's the Line Out Booster cable?

~pwp
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Fernando

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Since: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 120



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:13 am
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> What's the Line Out Booster cable?

It is an inline amplifier. The XLR5 output has low level. The thing
it's not cheap
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Paul Graff

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Since: May 29, 2007
Posts: 42



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 27, 7:59 am, "Phillip W. Palmer, CAS"
wrote:
> > the Line Out Booster cable if you are going to be cabled
>
> Scott (and other Cantar users),
>
> What's the Line Out Booster cable?
>
> ~pwp

I'm considering a Cantar purchase and have been researching this. The
manual is generally extremely thorough, but the line-out is only
addressed in the specs on the last page.

Per the Cantar manual, "Line-out XLR5(M) Symetrical, -10dBu out @
-18dBFS on track" and the Line-out Booster +12 is described as
"Two 12dB gain transformers make the Line-out deliver 0dBu at -18
dBFS track level"

So I guess 12 dB of gain raises it 10 dBs, which is a little strange.
Essentially it takes it from consumer line level to DIGITAL
professional line level. With all the Cantar does I am surprised an
external cable is required to achieve this.

I have a question. The Cantar manual also says, "Note: HD camera line-
in practice is -20 dBu, not 0 dBu"
Can someone explain this to me. I thought 0dBu on the mixer (or +4dBu
on older, analog-oriented mixers) aligned to -20 dBFS on a digital
recorders or cameras (or -18dBFS if you prefer, or -12dBFS on a pro-
sumer camera). If HD camera line-in practice is -20 dBu, then why
does the Cantar line-out deliver -10 dBu or boosted to 0 dBu with the
booster cable?

To my knowledge HD cameras are no different than standard def digital
cameras. Digital cameras, like digital recorders, use a dBFS scale,
right? Do they mean to be making the distinction between digital and
analog cameras?


For general edification of interested RAMPsters, I found a nice
description of the decibel system at:

http://www.sencore.com/newsletter/Oct06/MeasDigAudLvls.htm

I found this part enlightening:
Analog vs. Digital Levels -- the dBFS Scale

Digital audio levels are measured differently than analog audio
levels. Yes, yet another and different dB system is used. The dB
system in digital audio starts at the top and defines the loudest
sound level that is to be digitized. This top or full scale view of
the audio levels results in a full scale or "FS" system of dB
measurement. A 0 dBFS measurement unit is to be the highest audio
level. Assuming this is to be at the highest audio level before
clipping occurs, this corresponds to an analog level of 24 dBu.
Therefore, 4 dBu (dBu =dBv) is the same as - 20 dBFS or 0 VU.

While this is generally accepted as the range of digital audio, it is
not a hard standard. When digital audio values are converted back to
analog, some digital audio equipment provides level selections to
shift the analog output levels of 0 VU to -18 dBFS or -14 dBFS.
Lowering the dBFS relationship increases the audio sound levels output
from the D/A converter.

The rest of it is good also, but I am obviously still a little
unclear. Hey, the tracks always sound good so I must be doing
something right. :)
Paul
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ridingtheframe

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Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 10



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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the Line Out Booster cable

Where is this cable to be found and what is the proper name ?
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Billy Sarokin

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Since: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 131



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 27, 2:44 pm, "Charles Tomaras" wrote:
> Any ideas what the design considerations were that made Aaton decide
> upon -10 as an output level in the first place? Does Aaton or any dealer
> provide a permanent internal modification with professional output levels?

My guess is that the Cantar and similar machines are designed as
recorders. To add multiple +4 outputs requires a lot of power and
circuitry. On a studio deck it's a no brainer. On a portable unit it
requires additional bulk, a beefier power supply and eats up battery
life.
Billy Sarokin
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Brent Lestage, CAS

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Since: Dec 27, 2007
Posts: 33



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Thanks everyone for continuing to add to this thread. While I would
opt for using my Lectro UM400/411 combos for a wireless-to-camera hop,
there are obviously times where a hard-wired digital or analog
connection is desired. Interesting info on the booster cable. Is this
a custom Aaton-made cable?

Lastly, has anyone run a wireless TC hop from camera to the Cantar? In
the past, I have gone this route using a Black Box Video (UK)
miniature transmitter/receiver combo in order to trigger the AUTO REC
stop/start feature of the SD series recorders -- with excellent
results! Unless someone tells me otherwise, I don't see that I
wouldn't have similar luck triggering the Cantar this way.
--
B
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MWeber

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Since: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 23



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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First job with a new Cantar X2 was iso recording of a few radio mics
and a dynamic mix also sent to video cameras. Mix sliders made for a
very smooth operation. I returned camera audio to an input and just
soloed it to hear the camera feed. I handed off the session on a CD
+R. Director was very impressed because he thought he might have
problems with DVD-RAM.
The line output cable you are talking about is the BOOST12 accessory
cable. When I ordered Cantar X2 I questioned the line output level.
Aaton explained that to provide +4db output with proper line isolation
transformers would have taken up too much space and added additional
weight to the Cantar. So they opted to provide an accessory +12 boost
with isolation cable. The BOOST12 $500.

Mark Weber C.A.S.
Sound Specialist Inc.
Miami, Florida
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¤R¼..-¦°€•*¦*b€rt°•

External


Since: Feb 20, 2007
Posts: 466



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Charles Tomaras

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Since: Dec 14, 2003
Posts: 1680



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"¤R¼..-¦°?.*¦*b?rt°." wrote in message

> On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:59:37 -0800 (PST), "Phillip W. Palmer, CAS"
> schreef:
>
>>
>>> the Line Out Booster cable if you are going to be cabled
>>
>>Scott (and other Cantar users),
>>
>>What's the Line Out Booster cable?
>
> It's a 5 pin XL 2 channel -10 to +4 trafo in a small tube..
>
> R

Any ideas what the design considerations were that made Aaton decide
upon -10 as an output level in the first place? Does Aaton or any dealer
provide a permanent internal modification with professional output levels?
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Martin Harrington

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Since: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 33



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 28/12/07 6:44 AM, in article 0hTcj.15756$m6.7523@newsfe18.lga, "Charles
Tomaras" wrote:

>
> "€Rπ..-œ°?.*œ*b?rt°." wrote in message
>
>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:59:37 -0800 (PST), "Phillip W. Palmer, CAS"
>> schreef:
>>
>>>
>>>> the Line Out Booster cable if you are going to be cabled
>>>
>>> Scott (and other Cantar users),
>>>
>>> What's the Line Out Booster cable?
>>
>> It's a 5 pin XL 2 channel -10 to +4 trafo in a small tube..
>>
>> R
>
> Any ideas what the design considerations were that made Aaton decide
> upon -10 as an output level in the first place? Does Aaton or any dealer
> provide a permanent internal modification with professional output levels?
>
>

Maybe the same design decision that Zaxcom made when they brought out the
older stereo Tx/Rx combination.

Martin Harrington
lendan.RemoveThis@bigpond.net.au
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Scott Farr

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Since: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 112



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 27, 5:06 pm, "Brent Lestage, CAS"
wrote:
> Thanks everyone for continuing to add to this thread. While I would
> opt for using my Lectro UM400/411 combos for a wireless-to-camera hop,
> there are obviously times where a hard-wired digital or analog
> connection is desired. Interesting info on the booster cable. Is this
> a custom Aaton-made cable?
>
> Lastly, has anyone run a wireless TC hop from camera to the Cantar? In
> the past, I have gone this route using a Black Box Video (UK)
> miniature transmitter/receiver combo in order to trigger the AUTO REC
> stop/start feature of the SD series recorders -- with excellent
> results! Unless someone tells me otherwise, I don't see that I
> wouldn't have similar luck triggering the Cantar this way.
> --
> B

This works just fine on the Cantar (firmware v1.87 or higher) you only
record when the camera records when they insist the camera be on REC
RUN all the TC matches.
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Scott Farr

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Since: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 112



(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 27, 7:59 am, "Phillip W. Palmer, CAS"
wrote:
> > the Line Out Booster cable if you are going to be cabled
>
> Scott (and other Cantar users),
>
> What's the Line Out Booster cable?
>
> ~pwp


http://www.aaton.com/gallery/product_shots/line_booster_1170
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¤R¼..-¦°€•*¦*b€rt°•

External


Since: Feb 20, 2007
Posts: 466



(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Aaton Cantar Wired [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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