CC on AFI Top 100

On Jun 21, 12:09 pm, "constance.kuriy...@ttu.edu"
<constance.kuriy... DeleteThis @ttu.edu> wrote:

> I was amused by Robin Williams' reference to "the dance of the
> potatoes." Strangely, some people do think the rolls are potatoes,
> though I'd think they'd be rather heavy for such delicate
> maneuvers.
>
> And someone else seemed to think that Chaplin did that bit at
> dinner parties *before* he filmed it. As far as I know there's no
> evidence of that.
>
> Connie K.

But Roscoe Arbuckle might have.
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On Jun 21, 12:42 pm, WaverBoy <waver....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 21, 12:09 pm, "constance.kuriy...@ttu.edu"
>
> <constance.kuriy....TakeThisOut@ttu.edu> wrote:
> > I was amused by Robin Williams' reference to "the dance of the
> > potatoes." Strangely, some people do think the rolls are potatoes,
> > though I'd think they'd be rather heavy for such delicate
> > maneuvers.
>
> > And someone else seemed to think that Chaplin did that bit at
> > dinner parties *before* he filmed it. As far as I know there's no
> > evidence of that.
>
> > Connie K.
>
> But Roscoe Arbuckle might have.

Yes, and there were probably literally a few hundred film comedians
before Chaplin. So what? None of them did it anywhere near as well.
 >> Stay informed about: CC on AFI Top 100 

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:02:59 -0700, David Totheroh <dtotheroh DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:

>On Jun 21, 12:42 pm, WaverBoy <waver... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 12:09 pm, "constance.kuriy...@ttu.edu"
>>
>> <constance.kuriy... DeleteThis @ttu.edu> wrote:
>> > I was amused by Robin Williams' reference to "the dance of the
>> > potatoes." Strangely, some people do think the rolls are potatoes,
>> > though I'd think they'd be rather heavy for such delicate
>> > maneuvers.
>>
>> > And someone else seemed to think that Chaplin did that bit at
>> > dinner parties *before* he filmed it. As far as I know there's no
>> > evidence of that.
>>
>> > Connie K.
>>
>> But Roscoe Arbuckle might have.
>
>Yes, and there were probably literally a few hundred film comedians
>before Chaplin. So what? None of them did it anywhere near as well.

I particularly liked Mel Brooks's comment that he was "glad to be in (Chaplin's)
shadow." And the way Jack Lemmon broke into tears while describing the ending
of City Lights, whose "mismatched" shots once again didn't bother me.
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On Jun 21, 9:41 am, Phil P. <p... RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
> I broke down and watched the AFI top 100 (10th anniversary) show last night and
> here's how CC fared:
>
> City Lights - 11
> Gold Rush - 58
> Modern Times - 78, according to Bogdonovitch the film that "made him a
> star"!!???

What was he thinking? He certainly knows better.

I'd liked to have seen THE KID on the list, but it's not a bad list--
Chaplinwise (to borrow from THE APARTMENT).

>
> The other silents were Sunrise, The General and Intolerance.
> Citizen Kane was #1 (again).
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On Jun 22, 4:55 am, G-HE... DeleteThis @webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> Constance Kuriyana wrote:
> >And someone else seemed to think that
> >Chaplin did that bit at dinner parties >*before* he filmed it. As far
> as I know
> >there's no evidence of that.
>
> I'm sure Totheroh won't accept this as
> evidence, but I saw an episode of the
> old Cronkite/CBS "Twentieth Century"
> show on the 20s which had a clip of
> Chaplin doing the roll dance at a party
>
> No date for the clip so maybe
> it came after THE GOLD RUSH....

Why the gratuitous ad hominem, George? The only certainty is that you
are completely wrong about whether I consider it evidence. I surely
do. The only problem is that I don't accept on face value (as you seem
to do) that it is as likely as not to contradict Kuriyama's statement.
In fact, it does not.

Not only have I seen that footage, I have a VHS copy of it. The
footage came from the 16mm camera of Ralph Barton. And unless you have
evidence to the contrary, that means it was shot, at the earliest,
toward the *very* end of production on The Circus, and far more
likely, well into the production of City Lights, when Barton became a
part of Chaplin's social circle. It is even quite possible (in spite
of the fact that CBS used it to illustrate the '20s) that the footage
was shot in 1930, when Chaplin's social life became somewhat more
active following completion of major shooting on City Lights and
during its post production phase.
 >> Stay informed about: CC on AFI Top 100 

Constance Kuriyana wrote:

>And someone else seemed to think that
>Chaplin did that bit at dinner parties >*before* he filmed it. As far
as I know
>there's no evidence of that.

I'm sure Totheroh won't accept this as
evidence, but I saw an episode of the
old Cronkite/CBS "Twentieth Century"
show on the 20s which had a clip of
Chaplin doing the roll dance at a party

No date for the clip so maybe
it came after THE GOLD RUSH....
 >> Stay informed about: CC on AFI Top 100 

On Jun 22, 2:22 pm, d....RemoveThis@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Constance Kuriyama)
wrote:
> David Totheroh (dtothe...@aol.com) writes:
> > On Jun 22, 4:55 am, G-HE....RemoveThis@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> >> Constance Kuriyana wrote:
> >> >And someone else seemed to think that
> >> >Chaplin did that bit at dinner parties >*before* he filmed it. As far
> >> as I know
> >> >there's no evidence of that.
>
> >> I'm sure Totheroh won't accept this as
> >> evidence, but I saw an episode of the
> >> old Cronkite/CBS "Twentieth Century"
> >> show on the 20s which had a clip of
> >> Chaplin doing the roll dance at a party
>
> >> No date for the clip so maybe
> >> it came after THE GOLD RUSH....
>
> > Why the gratuitous ad hominem, George? The only certainty is that you
> > are completely wrong about whether I consider it evidence. I surely
> > do. The only problem is that I don't accept on face value (as you seem
> > to do) that it is as likely as not to contradict Kuriyama's statement.
> > In fact, it does not.
>
> > Not only have I seen that footage, I have a VHS copy of it. The
> > footage came from the 16mm camera of Ralph Barton. And unless you have
> > evidence to the contrary, that means it was shot, at the earliest,
> > toward the *very* end of production on The Circus, and far more
> > likely, well into the production of City Lights, when Barton became a
> > part of Chaplin's social circle. It is even quite possible (in spite
> > of the fact that CBS used it to illustrate the '20s) that the footage
> > was shot in 1930, when Chaplin's social life became somewhat more
> > active following completion of major shooting on City Lights and
> > during its post production phase.
>
> Yes, I was aware of that film, but was blanking out on names and
> couldn't remember that it was Barton who shot it. Chaplin's hair is
> very grey in the film. I'd date it in the early 'thirties.

I think you're right. The earliest that it could possibly be is
sometime in the last 2 or 3 months of '27, but I strongly doubt it
would be that early. And it couldn't possibly have been after Feb of
'31 when Barton left Europe, returned to New York and committed
suicide within a few weeks of his arrival there.
>
> I'm actually glad Mr. Shelps brought it up, since he prompted you
> to remind me who shot it (though the comment about your concept of
> evidence was unnecessary).
>
> Isn't it included in _Unknown Chaplin_?

I believe it is, but I remembered it from a compilation of Barton's
home movies that contained a lot of other 'society' footage which I
don't believe has been publicly released.
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David Totheroh (dtotheroh@aol.com) writes:
> On Jun 22, 4:55 am, G-HE....DeleteThis@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
>> Constance Kuriyana wrote:
>> >And someone else seemed to think that
>> >Chaplin did that bit at dinner parties >*before* he filmed it. As far
>> as I know
>> >there's no evidence of that.
>>
>> I'm sure Totheroh won't accept this as
>> evidence, but I saw an episode of the
>> old Cronkite/CBS "Twentieth Century"
>> show on the 20s which had a clip of
>> Chaplin doing the roll dance at a party
>>
>> No date for the clip so maybe
>> it came after THE GOLD RUSH....
>
> Why the gratuitous ad hominem, George? The only certainty is that you
> are completely wrong about whether I consider it evidence. I surely
> do. The only problem is that I don't accept on face value (as you seem
> to do) that it is as likely as not to contradict Kuriyama's statement.
> In fact, it does not.
>
> Not only have I seen that footage, I have a VHS copy of it. The
> footage came from the 16mm camera of Ralph Barton. And unless you have
> evidence to the contrary, that means it was shot, at the earliest,
> toward the *very* end of production on The Circus, and far more
> likely, well into the production of City Lights, when Barton became a
> part of Chaplin's social circle. It is even quite possible (in spite
> of the fact that CBS used it to illustrate the '20s) that the footage
> was shot in 1930, when Chaplin's social life became somewhat more
> active following completion of major shooting on City Lights and
> during its post production phase.

Yes, I was aware of that film, but was blanking out on names and
couldn't remember that it was Barton who shot it. Chaplin's hair is
very grey in the film. I'd date it in the early 'thirties.

I'm actually glad Mr. Shelps brought it up, since he prompted you
to remind me who shot it (though the comment about your concept of
evidence was unnecessary).

Isn't it included in _Unknown Chaplin_?

Connie K.
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On Jun 22, 2:22 pm, d....DeleteThis@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Constance Kuriyama)
wrote:
> David Totheroh (dtothe...@aol.com) writes:
> > On Jun 22, 4:55 am, G-HE....DeleteThis@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> >> Constance Kuriyana wrote:
> >> >And someone else seemed to think that
> >> >Chaplin did that bit at dinner parties >*before* he filmed it. As far
> >> as I know
> >> >there's no evidence of that.
>
> >> I'm sure Totheroh won't accept this as
> >> evidence, but I saw an episode of the
> >> old Cronkite/CBS "Twentieth Century"
> >> show on the 20s which had a clip of
> >> Chaplin doing the roll dance at a party
>
> >> No date for the clip so maybe
> >> it came after THE GOLD RUSH....
>
> > Why the gratuitous ad hominem, George? The only certainty is that you
> > are completely wrong about whether I consider it evidence. I surely
> > do. The only problem is that I don't accept on face value (as you seem
> > to do) that it is as likely as not to contradict Kuriyama's statement.
> > In fact, it does not.
>
> > Not only have I seen that footage, I have a VHS copy of it. The
> > footage came from the 16mm camera of Ralph Barton. And unless you have
> > evidence to the contrary, that means it was shot, at the earliest,
> > toward the *very* end of production on The Circus, and far more
> > likely, well into the production of City Lights, when Barton became a
> > part of Chaplin's social circle. It is even quite possible (in spite
> > of the fact that CBS used it to illustrate the '20s) that the footage
> > was shot in 1930, when Chaplin's social life became somewhat more
> > active following completion of major shooting on City Lights and
> > during its post production phase.
>
> Yes, I was aware of that film, but was blanking out on names and
> couldn't remember that it was Barton who shot it. Chaplin's hair is
> very grey in the film. I'd date it in the early 'thirties.
>
> I'm actually glad Mr. Shelps brought it up, since he prompted you
> to remind me who shot it (though the comment about your concept of
> evidence was unnecessary).
>
> Isn't it included in _Unknown Chaplin_?
>
> Connie K.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's where I first saw it.
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On Jun 22, 10:34 am, David Totheroh <dtothe....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:

> Why the gratuitous ad hominem, George?

I take it that's a rhetorical question. :)

Tom Moran
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David Totheroh wrote:

>Why the gratuitous ad hominem. George
Because you habitually accuse me of
misrepresentation and deliberate
distortion---and Carnahan even called
me a liar when I said that I noticed the
discontinuity in the ending of CITY LIGHTS without having read about
it in the Kerr book.
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Richard Carnahan wrote:

>>Isn't it included in _Unknown Chaplin_?

>That's where I first saw it.

You're lying.
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On Jun 22, 6:14 pm, David Totheroh <dtothe....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jun 22, 2:22 pm, d....TakeThisOut@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Constance Kuriyama)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > David Totheroh (dtothe...@aol.com) writes:
> > > On Jun 22, 4:55 am, G-HE....TakeThisOut@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> > >> Constance Kuriyana wrote:
> > >> >And someone else seemed to think that
> > >> >Chaplin did that bit at dinner parties >*before* he filmed it. As far
> > >> as I know
> > >> >there's no evidence of that.
>
> > >> I'm sure Totheroh won't accept this as
> > >> evidence, but I saw an episode of the
> > >> old Cronkite/CBS "Twentieth Century"
> > >> show on the 20s which had a clip of
> > >> Chaplin doing the roll dance at a party
>
> > >> No date for the clip so maybe
> > >> it came after THE GOLD RUSH....
>
> > > Why the gratuitous ad hominem, George? The only certainty is that you
> > > are completely wrong about whether I consider it evidence. I surely
> > > do. The only problem is that I don't accept on face value (as you seem
> > > to do) that it is as likely as not to contradict Kuriyama's statement.
> > > In fact, it does not.
>
> > > Not only have I seen that footage, I have a VHS copy of it. The
> > > footage came from the 16mm camera of Ralph Barton. And unless you have
> > > evidence to the contrary, that means it was shot, at the earliest,
> > > toward the *very* end of production on The Circus, and far more
> > > likely, well into the production of City Lights, when Barton became a
> > > part of Chaplin's social circle. It is even quite possible (in spite
> > > of the fact that CBS used it to illustrate the '20s) that the footage
> > > was shot in 1930, when Chaplin's social life became somewhat more
> > > active following completion of major shooting on City Lights and
> > > during its post production phase.
>
> > Yes, I was aware of that film, but was blanking out on names and
> > couldn't remember that it was Barton who shot it. Chaplin's hair is
> > very grey in the film. I'd date it in the early 'thirties.
>
> I think you're right. The earliest that it could possibly be is
> sometime in the last 2 or 3 months of '27, but I strongly doubt it
> would be that early. And it couldn't possibly have been after Feb of
> '31 when Barton left Europe, returned to New York and committed
> suicide within a few weeks of his arrival there.
>
>
>
> > I'm actually glad Mr. Shelps brought it up, since he prompted you
> > to remind me who shot it (though the comment about your concept of
> > evidence was unnecessary).
>
> > Isn't it included in _Unknown Chaplin_?
>
> I believe it is, but I remembered it from a compilation of Barton's
> home movies that contained a lot of other 'society' footage which I
> don't believe has been publicly released.

Some of that may be included in the extras of one of the MK2/Warners
releases.
There's footage of a party and a rather horrid home movie.

What always occurs to me when I think about those two versions of the
dance
is how different the effect is. The version in _Gold Rush_ achieves
the illusion of
Charlie becoming the dancer, which is a purely cinematic effect. The
version
Barton filmed is mainly a demonstration of manual dexterity, with
Chaplin
himself remaining quite detached from his performance.

Connie K.
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