DEVA Post Production

The big reason post may prefer HD recorders over DAT is the savings in
loading and conforming time. In many features, the savings may be an
hour or two every day for the assistants and easily several days for the
post sound librarian. With schedules being compressed and budgets tight,
these savings are more important to production and post-production
supervisors than any subjective advantage like extra tracks or better
signal or even the backup security.
Peter

In article ,
Karl Lohninger wrote:

> So, please, why, besides that our DAT go away sooner or later and the nice
> little luxury of being able to record multitracks on set, do we really need
> them?
>
> Karl Lohninger
> Los Angeles
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

>casoundinc@rcn.com (Coll Anderson) wrote
>the files are all SDII files which have no scene and take numbers, no
>METADATA, and to time code. Any ideas on how we would conform these
>to the picture departments EDL's. We are sort of wondering how the

Deva's SD2 files don't support the extra metadata like scene, take and
note, but they do have a timecode stamp. Broadcast WAV files support
everything and are the way of the future. Even DigiDesign said that we
should be getting away from SD2 files in favor of broadcast WAV.

When importing SD2 files into a protools session, the timecode does
not show up immediately. On my protools 4.x system here I use
FILE:Import_Audio_Tracks to read in an SD2 file. The file shows up at
timecode 00:00:00:00. I choose the icon that looks like a hand and
click on the audio waveform. A "spot" dialog box appears and from
there I can choose to accept the current timecode stamp. Once I hit
the OK button, the audio track moves in the timeline to the proper
timecode.

Sometimes disasters occur and they are the result of not testing a
workflow before generating 30 or more DVD-RAM disks worth of audio
files. Post needs to take some test audio files and make sure their
chosen workflow will handle them properly – before production begins!
There are still a number of different workflows and several different
file type strategies that one can choose from.

-howy
Zaxcom engineer
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

>>Hey guys, I am helping in the postproduction sound dept. on a film
>that was recorded on DEVA and we have a few questions. First of all
>the files are all SDII files which have no scene and take numbers, no
>METADATA, and to time code. Any ideas on how we would conform these
>to the picture departments EDL's.

Have you spoken with the location sound people about this? Did you
mean NO timecode? Is it even possible to record on a Deva w/ no code?
The files have no TC stamp at all? "A" time? What do the sound
reports say--how are the scenes and takes noted there? Are the
circle takes noted? Deva TC? Did the recordist use a DAT too, and is
there TC and notes for that? If the Deva DVDs were used in telecine,
there must be TC on them in some form, or did they telecine from a DAT
backup? Without TC on the Deva DVDs I don't see how you can run any
sort of automated conform of the EDL. You could still manually find
the takes and line them up to the scratch by waveform match, not too
bad unless the film is very cutty, and much better audio than the Beta
tracks.

Philip Perkins
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

howard.TakeThisOut@zaxcom.com (howy) wrote in message ...
> I just helped a post house in New York with a timecode problem related
> to SD2 files. For the last few days we have been trying to figure out
> why the timecodes were not showing up in their ProTools system.
> Apparently there are a few versions of ProTools (in the vicinity of
> version 5.1.1) that have trouble with SD2 files and timecode. Go to
> www.protools.com and search for "deva" to get more details.
>
> The short of it is that some versions of ProTools 5.1.x cannot read
> timecode at all while other versions read the timecode but its off by
> 0.1%. If you are sending files to a post house with Protools 5.1.x
> make sure they have the latest patch (I think it's called cs5).
>
> -howy
> Zaxcom engineer

Howy--is ProTools v 6+ affected by this, or did they fix this problem?

Philip Perkins
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

No. The problem was fixed in version 5.1.1cs5

In version 6 i´d work with BWF because Sd2 doesn´t support userbits and
meta-data. Unfortunately PT is very poor in handling metadata. The
spot-window only shows timestamps and that´s it allthough the data is in the
file.

For better conforming-from-disk workflow check out gallery´s MetaFlow
software.

Frank.

on 16.10.2003 18:58 Uhr in 3677d4b3.0310160858.2f8f3c62 DeleteThis @posting.google.com
Philip Perkins wrote :

> howard DeleteThis @zaxcom.com (howy) wrote in message
> ...
>> I just helped a post house in New York with a timecode problem related
>> to SD2 files. For the last few days we have been trying to figure out
>> why the timecodes were not showing up in their ProTools system.
>> Apparently there are a few versions of ProTools (in the vicinity of
>> version 5.1.1) that have trouble with SD2 files and timecode. Go to
>> www.protools.com and search for "deva" to get more details.
>>
>> The short of it is that some versions of ProTools 5.1.x cannot read
>> timecode at all while other versions read the timecode but its off by
>> 0.1%. If you are sending files to a post house with Protools 5.1.x
>> make sure they have the latest patch (I think it's called cs5).
>>
>> -howy
>> Zaxcom engineer
>
> Howy--is ProTools v 6+ affected by this, or did they fix this problem?
>
> Philip Perkins

--
Frank Kruse
Sound for Motion Picture
www.wildtrax.de
³Behind every Bush there is a terrorist²
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

I just want to take a second and thank everyone who has helped us with
this DEVA thing. With so many versions of software, and file types as
well as ways to skin any cat in post-production a lot of people were
very helpful when it came right down to it. As a production mixer and
sound editor I am really proud at how quick people were to offer help.
In this day and age it is so important that we keep the lines of
communication open in the hole sound department. That only as one
team can we be sucessful at what we do. So thanks Howie, Frank, John
and Jeff and every one else. And for those of you wondering, my two
cents is I love not only the hard disk recorder idea but multitrack as
well.

Coll
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

Just a quick follow up. Per Howy (and others) suggestion, Cyclops Post
downloaded an upgrade for their Pro Tools and everything seems fine now. As
for the Meta Data, I was writing scene and take info via the Cameo and was
originally writing BWF DVD/RAMS, but the transfer house requested SD2's so I
reburned everything. I've just learned from Howy that SD2 files do not
carry the MEta Data (other than time code). I'll avoid that format in the
future (and in the meantime, the transfer house purchased a Fostex DVD/RAM
deck, so now they are requesting and using BWF-P files).
Billy Sarokin


"Coll Anderson" wrote in message

> Hey guys, I am helping in the postproduction sound dept. on a film
> that was recorded on DEVA and we have a few questions. First of all
> the files are all SDII files which have no scene and take numbers, no
> METADATA, and to time code. Any ideas on how we would conform these
> to the picture departments EDL's. We are sort of wondering how the
> folks in the field see us using this material as it sounds much better
> than the Beta's that the Picture dept loaded from. I am sure no one
> would invent a hard disk recorder with out a plan or protocal as to
> how the media would be used by the post sound dept. If some one could
> chime in it would be a big help.
>
> Hope all is well
>
> coll.anderson.TakeThisOut@casoundinc.com
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

(Coll Anderson M.P.S.E.) wrote ...
I just want to take a second and thank everyone who has helped us with
this DEVA thing..... So thanks Howie, Frank, John and Jeff and every
one else. And for those of you wondering, my two cents is I love not
only the hard disk recorder idea but multitrack as well.
Coll<

Coll: I just love a happy ending.
Karl: Here's that list I promised to round up. As you can see,
there's significant Deva usage now in TV and film:

ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO…….Ed Novick
SPIDERMAN
THE ALAMO ……………………………John Pritchett
DOWN WITH LOVE
ROAD TO PERDITION
DAREDEVIL …………………………… Peter Devlin
BAD BOYZ II
PEARL HARBOR
THE KID
THE GIFT
THE LAST SAMURI ……………………..Jeff Wexler
ALMOST FAMOUS
FIGHT CLUB
VANILLA SKY
GIGGLI
CONSTANTINE ………………………..Willie Burton
MEN ON FIRE
PANIC ROOM
CHARLIE'S ANGELS I & II
KILL BILL ……………………………….Mark Ulano
BLUE CRUSH
STUART LITTLE
SWAT …………………………………….Steve Nelson
HOLES
MATRIX II & III….David Lee/Nelson Stoll
MEN IN BLACK I &II………………..Peter Kurland
LADY KILLERS
INTOLERABLE CRUELETY
OH BROTHER WHERE ART THOU
MYSTIC RIVER …………………………Walt Martin
ENOUGH ………………………………….Rob Janiger
SPEED II
MARS ATTACKS …………………………Rob Young
STUCK ON YOU ……………………………Earl Stein
1 HOUR PHOTO ………………….Richard Van Dyke
STAR WARS I, II & III……………Paul Brincat
FAST AND THE FURIOUS…………Fillipe Borerro

TV shows using DEVA:

CSI: MIAMI.................Donavan Deer
CSI: LAS VEGAS..............Mick Fowler
NIP/TUCK...............Mark Gill Martin
THE SOPRANOS..............Matthew Price
SCRUBS.......................Joe Foglia
CHARMED...............Brett G. Grierson
JAG...........................Sean Rush
NAVY: CIS....................Ken Fuller
FEAR FACTOR (Season 1)......Stacey Hill
BOOMTOWN.............Richard Lightstone
THE AGENCY...............Walter Hoylman
MISMATCH...................David Yaffee
LINE OF WIRE................Steve Tibbo
PROJECT GREENLIGHT II.....Mike Florimbi
10:8.......................Steve Nelson
SOLDIER OF FORTUNE.........Todd Russell
WUTHERING HEIGHTS.............Ron Selza
MUSIC IN HIGH PLACE PLACES..Don Worsham
61 (HBO)....................Jeff Wexler
CROSSING JORDAN........Glenn Berkovitch
CLUELESS

Commercials Companies now using DEVA:
DEKTOR FILMS...............Bob Gravenor
CROSSROADS FILMS-spots posted at RUSHES
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:29:43 -0500, Peter Kurland
wrote:

>The big reason post may prefer HD recorders over DAT is the savings in
>loading and conforming time. In many features, the savings may be an
>hour or two every day for the assistants and easily several days for the
>post sound librarian. With schedules being compressed and budgets tight,
>these savings are more important to production and post-production
>supervisors than any subjective advantage like extra tracks or better
>signal or even the backup security.
>Peter

I'm right in the middle of my first HD movie right now, and the profit
that is made timewise, is not more than 10 % Max, imo.
Also, it's is not a creative profit, but just an administrative
profit. ( it does not make my sound , or the movie better )
And we even use TC on Cam and on Audio, so i'm using everything to
make it as fast as possible.

The first very small profit is *only* for the edit assistant, that
already has the right clip under the right picture. But the picture
has to be loaded by ( film > telecine> tape) tape. Unless the picture
gets scanned to HD ( something that is already happening here with
Commercials ) things can get really faster then before.
Also, edit assistant re-checks TC-auto-sync by sticks, the time they
win ( i asked this person twice ) is really not speeding up the movie,
neither does it save money ( production told me ).

It is not that if some edit assistant is loading a DAT tape, that they
start reading the newspaper, or cannot do anything else.
The same thing for Audio post. Yes, great if they can do it in 2 hours
instead of 2 days, but i't always the Tape-up person who does this in
between making coffee, and answering the telephone.

I already see advantages over Tape, but certainly not the Picture po$t
time table.

R





--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

No savings? What about savings in film stock and transfers.? Probably
in the millions if the shows a big one. Post is not why producers are
going to it. Follow the money. ;-)

Rob€rto wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:29:43 -0500, Peter Kurland
> wrote:
>
>
>>The big reason post may prefer HD recorders over DAT is the savings in
>>loading and conforming time. In many features, the savings may be an
>>hour or two every day for the assistants and easily several days for the
>>post sound librarian. With schedules being compressed and budgets tight,
>>these savings are more important to production and post-production
>>supervisors than any subjective advantage like extra tracks or better
>>signal or even the backup security.
>>Peter
>
>
> I'm right in the middle of my first HD movie right now, and the profit
> that is made timewise, is not more than 10 % Max, imo.
> Also, it's is not a creative profit, but just an administrative
> profit. ( it does not make my sound , or the movie better )
> And we even use TC on Cam and on Audio, so i'm using everything to
> make it as fast as possible.
>
> The first very small profit is *only* for the edit assistant, that
> already has the right clip under the right picture. But the picture
> has to be loaded by ( film > telecine> tape) tape. Unless the picture
> gets scanned to HD ( something that is already happening here with
> Commercials ) things can get really faster then before.
> Also, edit assistant re-checks TC-auto-sync by sticks, the time they
> win ( i asked this person twice ) is really not speeding up the movie,
> neither does it save money ( production told me ).
>
> It is not that if some edit assistant is loading a DAT tape, that they
> start reading the newspaper, or cannot do anything else.
> The same thing for Audio post. Yes, great if they can do it in 2 hours
> instead of 2 days, but i't always the Tape-up person who does this in
> between making coffee, and answering the telephone.
>
> I already see advantages over Tape, but certainly not the Picture po$t
> time table.
>
> R
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:35:30 -0700, Ray Collins
wrote:

>No savings? What about savings in film stock and transfers.?

If Perfo is used ( if that is what you mean ), it will only save you
the transfer from DAT to perfo, or Disc to perfo.

>Probably
>in the millions if the shows a big one. Post is not why producers are
>going to it. Follow the money. ;-)

Well, i' would not use it as an argument to tell someone why HD on a
Feature set/location would be "'better"' than DAT or Nagra D.
If you calculate it ( production will ) you won't see a significant $
profit.
But this may vary by Production>Post>end route in different countrys
worldwide.
I see a much bigger market for HD recorders in TV and Commercials then
i see it in Features.

R ( From The Non Dropframe Paradise called Europe )







--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

Are you talking about HD (24P high definition video)?


on 18.10.2003 14:37 Uhr in nbb2pvouj8g46mlck0tifrlu3d417k29pi.TakeThisOut@4ax.com
Rob€rto Agent.TakeThisOut@Vondelaer.com wrote :

> I'm right in the middle of my first HD movie right now, and the profit


--
Frank Kruse
Sound for Motion Picture
www.wildtrax.de
³Behind every Bush there is a terrorist²
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production 

Well I was. ;-) But I was talking about the actual cost of 35mm film
vs a video tape. A real bottom line booster.

Frank Kruse wrote:
> Are you talking about HD (24P high definition video)?
>
>
> on 18.10.2003 14:37 Uhr in nbb2pvouj8g46mlck0tifrlu3d417k29pi.RemoveThis@4ax.com
> Rob€rto Agent.RemoveThis@Vondelaer.com wrote :
>
>
>>I'm right in the middle of my first HD movie right now, and the profit
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: DEVA Post Production