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External
Since: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Post subject: Deva 24P question
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)
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Hello. I just found out that my Thursday start date on my first 24P
shoot has been moved up to tomorrow (Tuesday). I am using a Deva V
software X2.07e. The AP tells me to roll at 23.98 , the DIT person
tells me that he is going to feed me 29.97. The DIT says camera will
be at 23.98, but sound will get 29.97. Both non-drop, Time of Day
settings.
In my experiences Associate Producers know very little about the job
they're being paid to do. These are all new folks for me and I want to
impress. I intended to do a test DVD and run all this by the telecine
in advance, but that window is now...er...smashed. I do know that the
back up DAT the AP asked for can do 29.97, but not 23.98, so that makes
he happy that a back up DAT will at least have useful time code.
I think I'm going with the DIT guys instructions. This scenario is
very reminiscent of an event in my career about 17 years ago when a
producer insisted I set my TC Nagra to 24fps because that was what his
camera was rolling at. That went real well.....
I want to just periodically jam the Deva from the DIT guy (and the
slates from the Deva), but what Time code Run mode do I use? I want
avoid being tethered to the DIT guy's time code generator.
Any comments, advice and warnings would be appreciated.
Thanks.-Ken Segal |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 32
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ken,
I've always run 29.97 on 24p shoots, either with continuous feed from
the DIT as master, or I jam the clockit and slate from my DEVA V as the
master.
I also set time code at 24fps years ago on a dat because I was told to...
Eric Pierce, C.A.S.
K. S. wrote:
> Hello. I just found out that my Thursday start date on my first 24P
> shoot has been moved up to tomorrow (Tuesday). I am using a Deva V
> software X2.07e. The AP tells me to roll at 23.98 , the DIT person
> tells me that he is going to feed me 29.97. The DIT says camera will
> be at 23.98, but sound will get 29.97. Both non-drop, Time of Day
> settings.
> In my experiences Associate Producers know very little about the job
> they're being paid to do. These are all new folks for me and I want to
> impress. I intended to do a test DVD and run all this by the telecine
> in advance, but that window is now...er...smashed. I do know that the
> back up DAT the AP asked for can do 29.97, but not 23.98, so that makes
> he happy that a back up DAT will at least have useful time code.
> I think I'm going with the DIT guys instructions. This scenario is
> very reminiscent of an event in my career about 17 years ago when a
> producer insisted I set my TC Nagra to 24fps because that was what his
> camera was rolling at. That went real well.....
> I want to just periodically jam the Deva from the DIT guy (and the
> slates from the Deva), but what Time code Run mode do I use? I want
> avoid being tethered to the DIT guy's time code generator.
> Any comments, advice and warnings would be appreciated.
> Thanks.-Ken Segal |
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External
Since: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 167
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"K. S." <hitwitstuff.TakeThisOut@REMOVEcharter.com> wrote in message
news:hitwitstuff-B66BBA.21351120032006@NNTP.charter.net...
> Hello. I just found out that my Thursday start date on my first 24P
> shoot has been moved up to tomorrow (Tuesday). I am using a Deva V
> software X2.07e. The AP tells me to roll at 23.98 , the DIT person
> tells me that he is going to feed me 29.97. The DIT says camera will
> be at 23.98, but sound will get 29.97. Both non-drop, Time of Day
> settings.
> In my experiences Associate Producers know very little about the job
> they're being paid to do. These are all new folks for me and I want to
> impress. I intended to do a test DVD and run all this by the telecine
> in advance, but that window is now...er...smashed. I do know that the
> back up DAT the AP asked for can do 29.97, but not 23.98, so that makes
> he happy that a back up DAT will at least have useful time code.
> I think I'm going with the DIT guys instructions. This scenario is
> very reminiscent of an event in my career about 17 years ago when a
> producer insisted I set my TC Nagra to 24fps because that was what his
> camera was rolling at. That went real well.....
> I want to just periodically jam the Deva from the DIT guy (and the
> slates from the Deva), but what Time code Run mode do I use? I want
> avoid being tethered to the DIT guy's time code generator.
> Any comments, advice and warnings would be appreciated.
> Thanks.-Ken Segal
In most cases with 24P the DAT and Deva Should Be in 29.97 Free Run mode.
Jam both to the camera TOD code comming from the DIT. Every time the Camera
shuts off or battery is replaced check the TC and RE-Jam Both DAT, DEVA &
Slate.
Make sure the firmware in your DEVA V is up to date. DEVA V had a version
of firmware that did the TC Stamps wrong. (without Pull-up at 29.97ND) The
current firmware version I believe corrected this. I can't verify this since
they won't let me join the DEVA users group but if you are a member you
should check to see if your firmware is updated.
Check with the editor and see whether they will be doing the project as a
23.976, 24.000 or 29.97 timeline and do a test 29.97 and see how it lines up
and tracks sync.
----Courtney >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 542
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Courtney I recently asked for the same information regarding the
current firmware number and the features it supported and was told to
go to a dealer and demo it. I find it amazing that all other equipment
manufactures (HHB, AATON, Sound Devices, etc.) proudly display there
known issues, if any, and the current firmware number and feature set,
except for zaxcom. If you look at Sound Devices firmware updates
(v1.58) you see that the digital input now works with Zaxcom Deva
(ignores improperly set parity/validity bits from Deva) it makes me
wonder why all the smoke and mirrors. >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 32
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Courtney,
If he's shooting at 23.976 not 24fps and recording at 29.97, there
shouldn't be any pullup/pulldown, correct? I've always run 29.97 48k
with 32976.
Eric Pierce, C.A.S.
Courtney Goodin wrote:
<snip>
> Make sure the firmware in your DEVA V is up to date. DEVA V had a version
> of firmware that did the TC Stamps wrong. (without Pull-up at 29.97ND) The
> current firmware version I believe corrected this. I can't verify this since
> they won't let me join the DEVA users group but if you are a member you
> should check to see if your firmware is updated.
> Check with the editor and see whether they will be doing the project as a
> 23.976, 24.000 or 29.97 timeline and do a test 29.97 and see how it lines up
> and tracks sync.
>
> ----Courtney
>
> >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:37:19 -0800, "Courtney Goodin"
<cgoodin.DeleteThis@primenet.com> schreef:
>Make sure the firmware in your DEVA V is up to date. DEVA V had a version
>of firmware that did the TC Stamps wrong. (without Pull-up at 29.97ND)
Was that the cause of the problem you posted here about Drifting TC in
combination with Indaw's ?
R
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 335
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Eric Pierce" <thefirstname.RemoveThis@ericsound.com> wrote in message
news:hQNTf.1117$M62.698@fe04.lga...
> Courtney,
> If he's shooting at 23.976 not 24fps and recording at 29.97, there
> shouldn't be any pullup/pulldown, correct? I've always run 29.97 48k with
> 32976.
>
> Eric Pierce, C.A.S.
>
>
Right,
Both 23.976 and 29.97 are already pulled down rates. There is no pull-down
on import into the AVID and it should track correctly with the original
Picture Time Code. To cross - sync 23.976 TC to 29.97 Just line them up on
the next even second. They should stay in sync (visual to audio) and not
drift.
---Courtney >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 335
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"°R¼ ¤*¦*b?rt°." <~-¦-y¤e-¤¦*@le?s.com> wrote in message
news:c8uv12dc17pref7modjbqgn44i85lk6bgj@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:37:19 -0800, "Courtney Goodin"
> <cgoodin RemoveThis @primenet.com> schreef:
>
>>Make sure the firmware in your DEVA V is up to date. DEVA V had a version
>>of firmware that did the TC Stamps wrong. (without Pull-up at 29.97ND)
>
>
> Was that the cause of the problem you posted here about Drifting TC in
> combination with Indaw's ?
>
> R
>
No I don't think so. "Drift" usually refers to the situation where you sync
up a take at the head and the sound slowly drifts out of sync after a period
of time. The DEVA pull-up error would cause the Start Time in the Time-code
Stamps to be off by .1% times the total seconds of the Time of Day Code at
that point. That would me that the Start Times would be out of sync with the
slate by several seconds. (i.e. if the time on the slate was 10:00:00 the
Deva Time Stamp (with the older firmware) for that take would be 09:59:24 an
error of 36 seconds.)
Time code that "Drifts" is usually caused by the playout speed being .1% off
(not pulled down) causing a drift of about 1 frame every 41.666 seconds of
play time.
----Courtney >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:41 am
Post subject: Deva 24P question-update [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hello all and thanks for all the input and replies.
Unlike what the Associate Producer told me, I went with 29.97 NDF, 48K
straight up (per Telecine instructions), 16 bits, UDF format, Free Run
setting, 10 second pre-roll. I jammed the time code from the DIT
whenever he had to power down because his generator was showing drift
whenever he powered up. I'm planning to jam every 3 hours because of
the potential time code drift with the Fostex PD4 that I'm rolling as
back up.
Its 11:44AM and no calls yet. I spoke with my Match Frame rep about
telecine. He said no phone calls or emails in his box so he thinks it
went well. I spoke with the Associate Producer who had the very same
response word for word. So I'm declaring it a victory! So far. If
I'm snake bit later, I'll be sure to let you all know.-ken Segal >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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External
Since: Jan 04, 2005
Posts: 129
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Deva 24P question-update [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I ALWAYS defer to the telecine person who is dealing w/ syncing our
work. If they are wrong then you are absolved of the decision and they
are the one to blame.
Never have I jammed anything other than 29NDF for HD shoots and it has
seemd to always sync without issues/calls. BUT, I still do always ask
the telecine or post supervisor what they want prior to any work. They
are the ultimate answer and other folks w/ bits of info can often steer
you the wrong way.
Scott Harber
K. S. wrote:
> Hello all and thanks for all the input and replies.
> Unlike what the Associate Producer told me, I went with 29.97 NDF, 48K
> straight up (per Telecine instructions), 16 bits, UDF format, Free Run
> setting, 10 second pre-roll. I jammed the time code from the DIT
> whenever he had to power down because his generator was showing drift
> whenever he powered up. I'm planning to jam every 3 hours because of
> the potential time code drift with the Fostex PD4 that I'm rolling as
> back up.
> Its 11:44AM and no calls yet. I spoke with my Match Frame rep about
> telecine. He said no phone calls or emails in his box so he thinks it
> went well. I spoke with the Associate Producer who had the very same
> response word for word. So I'm declaring it a victory! So far. If
> I'm snake bit later, I'll be sure to let you all know.-ken Segal >> Stay informed about: Deva 24P question |
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