Drag racing - will I damage my mic?

Dragsters are so insanely loud wouldn't want to expose a condenser mic
to those levels. The the first NHRA raced I mixed -- the EIC
insisted that I only use 635's for efx near the starting line. I
understood at the first green light. I had to immediately pad down
those inputs 50db -- I was virtually getting line levels from dynamic
mics! It is also nasty with chemicals and fumes -- I'd wear a
respirator and goggles.
Hope this helps

Brandon Barnts wrote:
> I'm doing a shoot this weekend at a drag racing track. I've never been
> to a drag race, but I understand its deafeningly loud. I believe we
> will be pretty close to the cars. Can anyone tell me if this will
> damage my MKH60. Maybe I should just walk around with a cheap dynamic
> mic. What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
> Brandon
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

Drag racing - will I damage my mic?

Group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound Date: Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 8:43pm
(EDT-3) From: sonicfiz.RemoveThis@gmail.com (Brandon Barnts)

I'm doing a shoot this weekend at a drag racing track. I've never been
to a drag race, but I understand its deafeningly loud. I believe we will
be pretty close to the cars. Can anyone tell me if this will damage my
MKH60. Maybe I should just walk around with a cheap dynamic mic. What do
you think?
Thanks,
Brandon<<<<<<<<<<<<

You really can't go wrong with a dynamic for efx at those kinds of
spl's. Keep the 60 for interviews away from the drag strip or between
races.

Eric
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

I had good luck with a 421 (+ Lectro UM400) in F1 races to mike from
within the car.

Fernando


MitchB4610 wrote:
> Dragsters are so insanely loud wouldn't want to expose a condenser mic
> to those levels. The the first NHRA raced I mixed -- the EIC
> insisted that I only use 635's for efx near the starting line. I
> understood at the first green light. I had to immediately pad down
> those inputs 50db -- I was virtually getting line levels from dynamic
> mics! It is also nasty with chemicals and fumes -- I'd wear a
> respirator and goggles.
> Hope this helps
>
> Brandon Barnts wrote:
> > I'm doing a shoot this weekend at a drag racing track. I've never been
> > to a drag race, but I understand its deafeningly loud. I believe we
> > will be pretty close to the cars. Can anyone tell me if this will
> > damage my MKH60. Maybe I should just walk around with a cheap dynamic
> > mic. What do you think?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brandon
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

MitchB4610 wrote:

> Dragsters are so insanely loud wouldn't want to expose a condenser mic
> to those levels. The the first NHRA raced I mixed -- the EIC
> insisted that I only use 635's for efx near the starting line. I
> understood at the first green light. I had to immediately pad down
> those inputs 50db -- I was virtually getting line levels from dynamic
> mics! It is also nasty with chemicals and fumes -- I'd wear a
> respirator and goggles.
> Hope this helps
>

I was going to say...with a dynamic mic you might want to try the line input. I
think Mitch has the right idea. Turn on the -10 pad in your 60 and keep it away
from the start line.

John
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

Thank you for the replies, I leave this morning. I'll go with the
dynamic anywhere near the cars and the 60 off track. I'm packing my
ear plugs.
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

Brandon Barnts wrote:

> Thank you for the replies, I leave this morning. I'll go with the
> dynamic anywhere near the cars and the 60 off track. I'm packing my
> ear plugs.
>
Have fun!

John
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

Brandon Barnts wrote:

> Thank you for the replies, I leave this morning. I'll go with the
> dynamic anywhere near the cars and the 60 off track. I'm packing my
> ear plugs.
>
Oh yeah. Don't let them take you downrange of the start line anywhere near the
wall. Those 300MPH tires and axles and stuff flying toward you can leave a nasty
welt.

John
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

I placed a SM57 sennheiser at the starting line a few years back to
record FX and it was destroyed after half a dozen takes. I wouldn't
allow my mics, especially condensors, anywhere near that area.
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

On 2006-10-30 10:16:42 +1100, "apoaud" <apoaud.RemoveThis@cox.net> said:

> I placed a SM57 sennheiser at the starting line a few years back to
> record FX and it was destroyed after half a dozen takes. I wouldn't
> allow my mics, especially condensors, anywhere near that area.

That still does not address the initial question.

There is a (possible) urban myth that you should loosen the strings of
a guitar (any guitar) before flying, as the pressures exerted on the
neck will cause damage. A guitar tech told me that that was total BS as
the forces are higher from normal tuning and playing. I don't loosen
and I have had no ill effects.

This possible UL may be the same.

I have used my Sanken CS3e around blanks a few times with no change to the mic

Can others with ACTUAL experience of high SPL condensor mic usage please post.

Rob

BTW i havent bought Shure SM57s for years as they are way too fragile
for the jobs they are good at.
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

On 10/31/06 5:14 AM, in article
45474c2f$0$8025$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au, "Rob
Hornbuckle" <Rob Hornbuckle> wrote:

> Can others with ACTUAL experience of high SPL condensor mic usage please post.

In the course of my career I have twice damaged a microphone capsule with
high sound pressures.

On the first occasion I was using a Sennheiser MKH 415 to record an Uzi
firing on full automatic. The mike recorded about two or three seconds of
rat-a-tat and then went completely dead. Repair required a new capsule at
considerable expense. This was blank fire, by the way, for a movie; not
actual live fire.

On the second occasion I had an actor yelling lines in the midst of a
running gun battle. I don't remember what they were fighting about, only
that there was a lot of gun fire about something. I was using a Neumann KMR
81 and, again, it lasted for a few seconds and then went crackly. It didn't
actually die but the mike had a strange, crinkly sound after that. It had
the tantalizing characteristic of clearing up for a few words and then
returning to crunch. It enjoyed a paid vacation in Connecticut where Neumann
USA replaced both the capsule and the matched interference tube at a cost of
about $850. Since then Neumann has discontinued its policy of requiring
replacement of the interference tube and capsule as a matched set.

In both of these occasions, the damaged microphones were powered up and in
use when they were damaged. That may be a factor but I am inclined to think
that the exposure to intense and sudden pressures ruptures or wrinkles the
thin membrane as a strictly mechanical effect. I don't think it makes any
difference whether the mike is plugged in and powered up, or not. But,
obviously, a mike being actively deployed is much closer to the sound source
than a mike attached to the second pole on the sound cart.

Like Billy Saroken, I now keep an Oktava mike in my kit for those occasions
when I must record dialog in the midst of gunfire. The Oktava has proved to
be quite robust but a capsule can be inexpensively replaced if it is
damaged. And, when working with gunfire I remove my other mikes to a safe
distance or shield them by putting them inside cases.

I did a lot of cheapo, low-budget movies in the late 80s and early 90s and
they frequently had lots of gunfire. For the most part, the mikes worked
just fine. It's possible to be lucky. But after two expensive repairs, I no
longer trust to luck.

David Waelder
(working e-mail is my name + wae, my server is earth link dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

Thanks David for posting all the detail and information - I'll now be
somewhat more cautious with my mics when needed.


"David Waelder" <davidwaeshades.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C16CB465.CDCB%davidwaeshades@earthlink.net...
> On 10/31/06 5:14 AM, in article
> 45474c2f$0$8025$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au, "Rob
> Hornbuckle" <Rob Hornbuckle> wrote:
>
>> Can others with ACTUAL experience of high SPL condensor mic usage please
>> post.
>
> In the course of my career I have twice damaged a microphone capsule with
> high sound pressures.
>
> On the first occasion I was using a Sennheiser MKH 415 to record an Uzi
> firing on full automatic. The mike recorded about two or three seconds of
> rat-a-tat and then went completely dead. Repair required a new capsule at
> considerable expense. This was blank fire, by the way, for a movie; not
> actual live fire.
>
> On the second occasion I had an actor yelling lines in the midst of a
> running gun battle. I don't remember what they were fighting about, only
> that there was a lot of gun fire about something. I was using a Neumann
> KMR
> 81 and, again, it lasted for a few seconds and then went crackly. It
> didn't
> actually die but the mike had a strange, crinkly sound after that. It had
> the tantalizing characteristic of clearing up for a few words and then
> returning to crunch. It enjoyed a paid vacation in Connecticut where
> Neumann
> USA replaced both the capsule and the matched interference tube at a cost
> of
> about $850. Since then Neumann has discontinued its policy of requiring
> replacement of the interference tube and capsule as a matched set.
>
> In both of these occasions, the damaged microphones were powered up and in
> use when they were damaged. That may be a factor but I am inclined to
> think
> that the exposure to intense and sudden pressures ruptures or wrinkles the
> thin membrane as a strictly mechanical effect. I don't think it makes any
> difference whether the mike is plugged in and powered up, or not. But,
> obviously, a mike being actively deployed is much closer to the sound
> source
> than a mike attached to the second pole on the sound cart.
>
> Like Billy Saroken, I now keep an Oktava mike in my kit for those
> occasions
> when I must record dialog in the midst of gunfire. The Oktava has proved
> to
> be quite robust but a capsule can be inexpensively replaced if it is
> damaged. And, when working with gunfire I remove my other mikes to a safe
> distance or shield them by putting them inside cases.
>
> I did a lot of cheapo, low-budget movies in the late 80s and early 90s and
> they frequently had lots of gunfire. For the most part, the mikes worked
> just fine. It's possible to be lucky. But after two expensive repairs, I
> no
> longer trust to luck.
>
> David Waelder
> (working e-mail is my name + wae, my server is earth link dot net)
>
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic? 

The full load automatic weapon is a continuing problem, because the
gun handlers experience is that they jam on half-loads. I had a
Neumann KM150 play along for 5 seconds, then shut down. I thought the
capsule was toast, but the diaphragm must have just been pinned,
because it started working later in the day. I am still using the
same capsule today, some ten years after the fact.

Ao


David Waelder wrote:
> On 10/31/06 5:14 AM, in article
> 45474c2f$0$8025$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au, "Rob
> Hornbuckle" <Rob Hornbuckle> wrote:
>
> > Can others with ACTUAL experience of high SPL condensor mic usage please post.
>
> In the course of my career I have twice damaged a microphone capsule with
> high sound pressures.
>
> On the first occasion I was using a Sennheiser MKH 415 to record an Uzi
> firing on full automatic. The mike recorded about two or three seconds of
> rat-a-tat and then went completely dead. Repair required a new capsule at
> considerable expense. This was blank fire, by the way, for a movie; not
> actual live fire.
>
> On the second occasion I had an actor yelling lines in the midst of a
> running gun battle. I don't remember what they were fighting about, only
> that there was a lot of gun fire about something. I was using a Neumann KMR
> 81 and, again, it lasted for a few seconds and then went crackly. It didn't
> actually die but the mike had a strange, crinkly sound after that. It had
> the tantalizing characteristic of clearing up for a few words and then
> returning to crunch. It enjoyed a paid vacation in Connecticut where Neumann
> USA replaced both the capsule and the matched interference tube at a cost of
> about $850. Since then Neumann has discontinued its policy of requiring
> replacement of the interference tube and capsule as a matched set.
>
> In both of these occasions, the damaged microphones were powered up and in
> use when they were damaged. That may be a factor but I am inclined to think
> that the exposure to intense and sudden pressures ruptures or wrinkles the
> thin membrane as a strictly mechanical effect. I don't think it makes any
> difference whether the mike is plugged in and powered up, or not. But,
> obviously, a mike being actively deployed is much closer to the sound source
> than a mike attached to the second pole on the sound cart.
>
> Like Billy Saroken, I now keep an Oktava mike in my kit for those occasions
> when I must record dialog in the midst of gunfire. The Oktava has proved to
> be quite robust but a capsule can be inexpensively replaced if it is
> damaged. And, when working with gunfire I remove my other mikes to a safe
> distance or shield them by putting them inside cases.
>
> I did a lot of cheapo, low-budget movies in the late 80s and early 90s and
> they frequently had lots of gunfire. For the most part, the mikes worked
> just fine. It's possible to be lucky. But after two expensive repairs, I no
> longer trust to luck.
>
> David Waelder
> (working e-mail is my name + wae, my server is earth link dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Drag racing - will I damage my mic?