EW JAZZ SINGER DVD REVIEW

On Oct 26, 1:37 pm, Moose Matson <moose.mat....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Enough of this political nonsense already.
>
> Let's get back to discussing THE JAZZ SINGER and the World's Greatest
> Entertainer!

Why here? Chaplin already has his own newsgroup. ;-)
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On Oct 26, 3:19 pm, Lloyd Fonvielle <navigareNOS... RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:
> George Shelps wrote:
> > Beyond the obvious political ends served
> > by race-baiting, the focus on racial
> > injustice as the zenith of all social evil
> > seems misplaced.
> It's hard to imagine any social evil which has had more consistently
> disastrous consequences for civilization over the years. Seems like
> something one should pay the closest possible attention to.

Yeah - it's surprising how much resistance there is here to that
simple fact.

Neither you or I have advocated suppression or censorship - merely a
greater sensitivity. But voices here bristle at the idea and continue
to espouse the "Get over it and move on" policy.

It's quite amazing how they feel at ease telling other people to "just
deal with it" when they themselves likely have no clue as to how it
feels to be on the wrong end of racial prejudice.

>From some quarters it's only to be expected: it's of a piece with
their savaging the victims of 9-11 or Katrina, solely because the
experience of these victims exposes the failures and crimes of their
conservative ideology.

But there's also the misapprehension people have that racism is
'over', when a glance out the window or flicking on a TV will tell us
this isn't so. They fail to see that racism is a continuum, that what
exists today has its roots in the blackface of yesterday, and if one
is going to revive the blackface or other accoutrements of prejudice
then it's incumbent to use a bit of sensitivity and have a sense of
responsibility in doing so.

When they basically say "Get over it" to those who have objections,
who is the "they" that's saying it? In their minds, it can only be
society, which translates as white society.

The fact is that 'society' is white and black and much else besides.
In the pursuit of real equality, the idea would be to reach a
consensus on how hurtful the perpetuation of certain images are to
part of that society, and to balance those concerns with the needs of
aged film buffs to watch their old films unbothered by the pesky voice
of what they call the 'PC enforcers' or some such epithet.

Even if such a process only results in a single commentary by a black
person among the many extras on a Jazz Singer DVD, talking about how
the movie affects him/her, how it relates to their experience today,
it seems to me like that would be a good thing.
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On Oct 25, 9:22 pm, David Totheroh <dtothe... RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:
> Lloyd Fonvielle wrote:
> > constance.kuriy... RemoveThis @ttu.edu wrote:
>
> > > I don't see much comparison between calling an adult man "boy,"
> > > which is manifestly condescending (affectionate or not) and wearing
> > > blackface.
>
> > A white man wearing blackface to portray Othello is different from a
> > white man wearing blackface to portray a simple-minded "darkie" in a
> > culture in which viewing blacks as children was part of a social regime
> > in which they were treated as second-class citizens.
>
> > Context is everything. People who see the American blackface tradition
> > as wholly benign are either denying the context in which it served a
> > particular social function or denying that the context is still relevant
> > to our own time.
>
> You might take your own words a bit more to heart. And this black
> perspective might inform and add a bit of subtlty to your views as
> well.
>
> http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0204/Watkins/Watkins.html
>
> For myself, in reading through your posts, what seems to be missing is
> an appreciation for the subversive, satiric underpinnings of
> minstrelsy. One of the more obvious associated examples would be the
> Uncle Remus stories, collected as they were from the black oral folk
> traditions. I think they have their Euro/Anglo analogy in troubadours
> and especially court jesters.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks, David. That's a very useful overview.

Connie K.
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Approaching the winter season the question of the day is:
How to wear miniskirts in cold weather without freezing?


Miniskirts have been young women's trends since the 1950s. Miniskirts
come in assorted styles such as leather, denim, rayon, tweed and
others. They can be rugged, elegant, funky and preppy. Miniskirts are
very popular between spring and fall seasons. However, some ladies
insist on being trendy in the dead of winter. Here are some techniques
to keep trendy and warm.
Wear leggings that go with the outfits. For seude and denim
miniskirts, try nude and colored leggings. For black leather skirts
and tweed, wear colored leggings or fishnets. Get a little frisky and
sport patterned leggings. Stores that sell variety of miniskirts and
leggings selling for prices from $15-$200. Seude and Leather skirts
are also avaialble at many outlet stores.
Add some spandex or body suits to your minis. These provide more
sheik, but be aware of the sweat factor. Coming in from the cold and
going back out might get the clothes a little gamey over time. A super
style could be a patterned, tweed skirt with spandex and flats, or
some casual, tennis shoes.
You can do plain girly-cool with elevated socks. Extra-long, soccer
socks athletic stores would work nicely. With these, you can wear
many footwear with athletic-style heels.
Others would even resort to wearing thin-kits. That style only works
if it absolutely goes with the outfit. Usually, black and white are
the only colors that are safe to try. Be careful to only stick with
thin-kits. Avoid wearing thick, thermal underwear with your miniskirt.
It may look tacky.
No one likes to freeze while being in style. At least, these tips can
help stay looking cool and being warm.

Kiss kiss,
Miss Glamour
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David Totheroh wrote:

>>I never said Dukes's racial views nullify
>>the validity of his other beliefs,

>Oh come on George. That's EXACTLY
>what you said. It's a direct quote, in
>context and black and white from your
>post time stamped Thu, 25 Oct 2007
>00:05:25 -0400. Are you really THAT out
>of touch with reality?

To repeat, I never said that Duke's
racial views disqualify his other
views. I simply reject the man
himself.
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navigareNOSPAM.RemoveThis@cox.net (Lloyd Fonvielle) wrote:


>>Beyond the obvious political ends
>>served by race-baiting, the focus on
>>racial injustice as the zenith of all social
>>evil seems misplaced.

>It's hard to imagine any social evil which
>has had more consistently disastrous
>consequences for civilization over the
>years. Seems like something one should
>pay the closest possible attention to.

I can think of a few.
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On Oct 26, 1:04 pm, David Totheroh <dtothe....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
> Nice try, George. The miniskirt stuff only means your slip's showing
> that much more.

Stop gawking at my legs then! :-)
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On Oct 23, 4:38 pm, David Totheroh <dtothe....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 23, 12:23 pm, bachu....TakeThisOut@rogers.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 23, 12:49 am, David Totheroh <dtothe....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > If he'd said "When you can guarantee nobody'll make any more jive-
> > > talking crows in anamations or have characters in a live action film
> > > call a black piano player 'boy', then we can talk" I'd be with him
> > > 100%. Asking people to whitewash historic reality for any reason, not
> > > so much.
>
> > It depends whether the films are looked on simply as historical
> > artifacts, as objects of interest only for buffs and specialists as
> > are found on this board, or whether they're timeless works of art and
> > entertainment (in the case of Dumbo, highly remunerative ones, as
> > Disney keeps re-releasing it to newer generations).
>
> > Why should a black child in 2007 have to watch his race being mocked
> > by jivetalking fools in a cartoon? Should he/she have to deal with
> > this simply because you demand that thehistorical reality of white
> > people mocking black people be observed and not 'white-washed'?
>
> They shouldn't "have to watch" anything. But unless there's some kind
> of Clockwork Orange thing going on, they don't.
>
> But ANY kid, regardless of race, should have the ability, with the
> proper parental guidance (a given for ANY kind of media exposure) to
> learn about the history we've all come from without others imposing
> their own particular bias through editing of that history.
>
>
>
> > There's no danger that the historical reality will be forgotten -
> > history books relate the facts of slavery, documentaries show people
> > being hosed down at civil rights marches in the sixties, and
> > contemporaneously we can see instituional racism as practiced in the
> > BushCheney administration's negligence in the face of Katrina - and in
> > a thousand other examples.
>
> I'd argue that the Katrina response was far more a function of
> 'philosophy of government' or 'classism' or 'greedy opportunism' with
> a good bit of just plain incompetence thrown in, with racism more an
> obvious and predictable effect than it is a cause.
>
> Nevertheless, how can you say there is no danger of historical reality
> being forgotten when we can see so many of its mistakes, negative
> lessons, and just plain blunders being so clearly and callously
> repeated in as you say "a thousand other examples"?
>
> I grew up being exposed to Dumbo and Casablanca, as well as Uncle
> Remus, The Grasshopper and the Ants and myriad other influences,
> without turning into Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld or Hadley or Addington
> or Yoo or Shelps or even David Duke. So there has to be some other
> more significant factor involved than the embedded media references to
> cultural racism/classism we all shared as baby boomers.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nice post.

I happen to like Dumbo.
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:19:25 -0700, Lloyd Fonvielle
<navigareNOSPAM.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:

>George Shelps wrote:
>
>> Beyond the obvious political ends served
>> by race-baiting, the focus on racial
>> injustice as the zenith of all social evil
>> seems misplaced.
>
>It's hard to imagine any social evil which has had more consistently
>disastrous consequences for civilization over the years.

Religion.
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On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:12:47 -0700, Lloyd Fonvielle
<navigareNOSPAM DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:

>constance.kuriyama@ttu.edu wrote:
>
>> I don't see much comparison between calling an adult man "boy,"
>> which is manifestly condescending (affectionate or not) and wearing
>> blackface.
>
>A white man wearing blackface to portray Othello is different from a
>white man wearing blackface to portray a simple-minded "darkie" in a
>culture in which viewing blacks as children was part of a social regime
>in which they were treated as second-class citizens.

But we're talking about The Jazz Singer, and no one is wearing
blackface to "portray a simple-minded 'darkie'" in it. As I've said,
in the movie nothing is made of the fact that he wears blackface--
he's not ridiculed or demeaned by others, and he doesn't do anything
offensive. He's just a guy who happens to be wearing makeup for a
stage role. In that blackface he does nothing even remotely as
offensive as what heaps of black performers were doing at the time
(acting to the stereotypes of the day-- "yas-um," slow-witted idiots,
scared by ghosts, etc.). He wasn't going around saying, "Look at me!
I'm a funny black man! Ooh, is that a g-g-ghost? I's powerful scared
of ghosts!" Quite the opposite; he was wearing the blackface during
the most trying time of his life, when he had to decide who he really
was. And who he was was a noble, good person. (Well, in the film
anyway, by all accounts he was a bastard in real life.)

>
>Context is everything.

Yes, and in the context of this film I don't think that anything more
than a brief mention of the race issue is called for.

And where were your complaints about the recent release of The
Searchers? That film is WAY more offensive to native Americans than
The Jazz Singer is to blacks, as are virtually all westerns.

And what about Chaplin's portrayals of Germans?

And what about von Stroheim's portrayal of dentists? You think
dentists like it that they're only ever portrayed in movies as evil,
frightening sadists?
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On Oct 27, 11:27 am, Fred <fw... RemoveThis @hotmailx.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:19:25 -0700, Lloyd Fonvielle
>
> <navigareNOS... RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:
> >George Shelps wrote:
>
> >> Beyond the obvious political ends served
> >> by race-baiting, the focus on racial
> >> injustice as the zenith of all social evil
> >> seems misplaced.
>
> >It's hard to imagine any social evil which has had more consistently
> >disastrous consequences for civilization over the years.
>
> Religion.

Amen to that.
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On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:56:18 -0700, Fred <fwtep RemoveThis @hotmailx.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:12:47 -0700, Lloyd Fonvielle
><navigareNOSPAM RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:
>
>>constance.kuriyama@ttu.edu wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see much comparison between calling an adult man "boy,"
>>> which is manifestly condescending (affectionate or not) and wearing
>>> blackface.
>>
>>A white man wearing blackface to portray Othello is different from a
>>white man wearing blackface to portray a simple-minded "darkie" in a
>>culture in which viewing blacks as children was part of a social regime
>>in which they were treated as second-class citizens.
>
>But we're talking about The Jazz Singer, and no one is wearing
>blackface to "portray a simple-minded 'darkie'" in it. As I've said,
>in the movie nothing is made of the fact that he wears blackface--
>he's not ridiculed or demeaned by others, and he doesn't do anything
>offensive. He's just a guy who happens to be wearing makeup for a
>stage role. In that blackface he does nothing even remotely as
>offensive as what heaps of black performers were doing at the time
>(acting to the stereotypes of the day-- "yas-um," slow-witted idiots,
>scared by ghosts, etc.). He wasn't going around saying, "Look at me!
>I'm a funny black man! Ooh, is that a g-g-ghost? I's powerful scared
>of ghosts!" Quite the opposite; he was wearing the blackface during
>the most trying time of his life, when he had to decide who he really
>was. And who he was was a noble, good person. (Well, in the film
>anyway, by all accounts he was a bastard in real life.)
>
>>
>>Context is everything.
>
>Yes, and in the context of this film I don't think that anything more
>than a brief mention of the race issue is called for.
>
>And where were your complaints about the recent release of The
>Searchers? That film is WAY more offensive to native Americans than
>The Jazz Singer is to blacks, as are virtually all westerns.
>
>And what about Chaplin's portrayals of Germans?
>
>And what about von Stroheim's portrayal of dentists? You think
>dentists like it that they're only ever portrayed in movies as evil,
>frightening sadists?

Yeah, Stroheim was an anti-dentite! ;<)
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Fred wrote:

> And where were your complaints about the recent release of The
> Searchers? That film is WAY more offensive to native Americans than
> The Jazz Singer is to blacks, as are virtually all westerns.

You need to take another look at "The Searchers". It's not racist, it's
ABOUT racism -- one of the darkest portraits of racism in American cinema.




Mar de Cortes Baja

www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>
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