Foley post production sound

on a recent project, i had to foley bird wing flaps. it's not that
difficult, but it's a lot of fun - especially a flock of birds...you
could get a lot of people involved at once.

-greg-
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

Hey, check out www.filmsound.org. On the left hand side column there
is a section called "foley artistry". There are some really great and
interesting articles there that will really make you think differently
about foley work. Good luck and enjoy!

Alex Altman
Nashville, TN
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

"Ginzo" wrote ...
>I have to come up with some examples of foley sounds that students
> would recreate for a film. Could you guys post some advice or examples
> of Foley sounds I could have the students recreate? I can't use items
> that are non-perishable (like food or fruits). I am doing a lecture of
> production sound but I need fill two exra hours. It's 4 hour lecture 2
> on production sound and I realy am having trouble trying to fill the
> rest of time. We thought of making something interactive with using
> clips of movies and having the students recreate sound by way of
> Foley. I don't really do post work so I am having a hard time. If any
> of you out there could give suggestions, that would be great.


Back a decade ago~ when I visited WDisneyWorld, at the
Disney/MGM Studios theme park, they had a Foley studio
where selected people from the audience would come on
stage and handle various live SFX. They had a ~5 minute
film with lots of effects, and then had the amateurs try to
perform the effects live in sync. The result was always
hilarious because of mis-fires and timing flubs.

IIRC, they had a wooden box with several dozen pieces of
scrap sheet steel plate which made a remarkable good (and
reusable) breaking glass effect.
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

If it is for a TV gig--I have worked with the DIT from Everybody hates
Chris. I could shoot him an email on their exact protocol.
Ian
On Mar 11, 5:27 pm, "Ginzo" wrote:
> I have to come up with some examples of foley sounds that students
> would recreate for a film. Could you guys post some advice or examples
> of Foley sounds I could have the students recreate? I can't use items
> that are non-perishable (like food or fruits). I am doing a lecture of
> production sound but I need fill two exra hours. It's 4 hour lecture 2
> on production sound and I realy am having trouble trying to fill the
> rest of time. We thought of making something interactive with using
> clips of movies and having the students recreate sound by way of
> Foley. I don't really do post work so I am having a hard time. If any
> of you out there could give suggestions, that would be great.
>
> Alex Ginzo
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

On Mar 12, 12:27 am, "Ginzo" wrote:
> ...I am doing a lecture of
> production sound but I need fill two exra hours. It's 4 hour lecture 2
> on production sound and I realy am having trouble trying to fill the
> rest of time.

Alex, you mean you really can't talk about production sound to
students for more than 2 hours?? (I was contemplating putting together
a 5-day 40 hour 'workshop' to give to a college last year... and that
would have had to focus on 'basics' and 'essentials'). I would
seriously consider NOT talking about foley (why put yourself across as
an authority on a subject you have little experience with - there's
already a lot of poor foley recording/editing/mixing going on out
there) and instead think about how you could teach the students about
real life aspects of on-set recording or crew politics etc. Or read
through the 'Open Letter' and 'UPM Letter' to let them have a better
understanding of the difficulties prod and post sound have to actually
get that sound on a drama production.

How about two hours on the subject "Production sound essentials for
Production managers, First ADs and Producers" ?

Kind regards,

Jez Adamson (UK sound editor)
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

On 2007-03-11 20:27:50 -0400, "Ginzo" said:

> I have to come up with some examples of foley sounds that students
> would recreate for a film.

http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.php?articleId=23902905


--
Jay Rose CAS
tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line.
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

On Mar 12, 11:34 am, wrote:
> On Mar 12, 12:27 am, "Ginzo" wrote:
>
> > ...I am doing a lecture of
> > production sound but I need fill two exra hours. It's 4 hour lecture 2
> > on production sound and I realy am having trouble trying to fill the
> > rest of time.
>
> Alex, you mean you really can't talk about production sound to
> students for more than 2 hours?? (I was contemplating putting together
> a 5-day 40 hour 'workshop' to give to a college last year... and that
> would have had to focus on 'basics' and 'essentials'). I would
> seriously consider NOT talking about foley (why put yourself across as
> an authority on a subject you have little experience with - there's
> already a lot of poor foley recording/editing/mixing going on out
> there) and instead think about how you could teach the students about
> real life aspects of on-set recording or crew politics etc. Or read
> through the 'Open Letter' and 'UPM Letter' to let them have a better
> understanding of the difficulties prod and post sound have to actually
> get that sound on a drama production.
>
> How about two hours on the subject "Production sound essentials for
> Production managers, First ADs and Producers" ?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jez Adamson (UK sound editor)

I agree and if I had my way I'd probably just extend the lecturewith
more production sound info. The thing is our students have had a month
of a class called Sound for Film. It's made up of lectures and labs
and they actually use all modern location equipment (I.E., Cooper 208,
Deva 4 and 5, SD744T, Metacorder, Lectro wireless, Sehnheiser, Sanken,
and laviler mics, Comtek). It's a really good class. They learn mixing
techniques, booming, how to proper hide lavs, sound effects gathering
and a lot more. Unfortunately, by the time they get to my course (Film
Production- Super 16mm format short film), it's been a year since the
Sound for Film class so they've forgotten a lot and we act as a
refresher. I do agree 100% of what your saying, but these "kids" tend
to get bored easy. Half the time they don't even like sound as a
department. They're mostly interested in making they're own films and
it's tough to try and convince someone to "like" production sound. So
we decided to make the second part more interactive to keep them
interested. We've don't it in our other labs and it just seems to open
up there excitement. I have other ideas that I'd like to implament
but I'd like to give this a try. Thank you for your input though I
think I might put your suggestion to good use.

Alex Ginzo

Alex Ginzo
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

Hi again Alex,

Hmm, saying that the students are largely bored by sound in film
largely explains all our problems doesn't it? Hell, if film students
treat our work as unnecessary or dull then it's no wonder that we
continue to have so many problems down the professional line. FWIW, I
wouldn't show the students 'The Letter' as it stands, it's far too
defensively written and difficult to expect who it's supposedly aimed
at to treat with much seriousness - on the other hand, it's full of
very pertinent observations and suggestions, which SHOULD be aimed at
those who might go on to be our UPMs, DPs, ADs, producers etc - ie
film students before they start their careers (and of course the
twisted few who decide to follow our own path).

Perhaps another idea (if any of your students is brave enough to put
their own work up to scrutiny) would be to have a volunteer's (or even
randomly selected) last finished short film be put up as a workshop
example of how they could have avoided sound mistakes or shortcomings
- scene by scene, shot by shot, going through a badly boomed shot etc
and suggesting changes (bad location, opportunity for plant mics, time
put aside for wild adr or WT, change in costume material, etc etc for
on set sound, and similar suggestions to avoid post sound problems).

I'm sure all would agree that two things are at stake here - and its
best to introduce the benefits and pitfall of these as early as
possible across the board of potential filmmakers; first, the pre-
planning of technical and creative sound and a total integration
between the production and effects etc recording and the post editing
and mix; second, the greatest understanding of each other's problems
and cooperation between all the folks involved in the making of a
show.

So, good luck with them, and try to keep it fun but moist importantly
make the ******* learn something!!

Cheers,

Jez Adamson


> > On Mar 12, 12:27 am, "Ginzo" wrote:
>
> I agree and if I had my way I'd probably just extend the lecturewith
> more production sound info. The thing is our students have had a month
> of a class called Sound for Film. It's made up of lectures and labs
> and they actually use all modern location equipment (I.E., Cooper 208,
> Deva 4 and 5, SD744T, Metacorder, Lectro wireless, Sehnheiser, Sanken,
> and laviler mics, Comtek). It's a really good class. They learn mixing
> techniques, booming, how to proper hide lavs, sound effects gathering
> and a lot more. Unfortunately, by the time they get to my course (Film
> Production- Super 16mm format short film), it's been a year since the
> Sound for Film class so they've forgotten a lot and we act as a
> refresher. I do agree 100% of what your saying, but these "kids" tend
> to get bored easy. Half the time they don't even like sound as a
> department. They're mostly interested in making they're own films and
> it's tough to try and convince someone to "like" production sound. So
> we decided to make the second part more interactive to keep them
> interested. We've don't it in our other labs and it just seems to open
> up there excitement. I have other ideas that I'd like to implament
> but I'd like to give this a try. Thank you for your input though I
> think I might put your suggestion to good use.
>
> Alex Ginzo
>
> Alex Ginzo- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

On Mar 14, 12:10 pm, wrote:
> Hi again Alex,
>
> Hmm, saying that the students are largely bored by sound in film
> largely explains all our problems doesn't it? Hell, if film students
> treat our work as unnecessary or dull then it's no wonder that we
> continue to have so many problems down the professional line. FWIW, I
> wouldn't show the students 'The Letter' as it stands, it's far too
> defensively written and difficult to expect who it's supposedly aimed
> at to treat with much seriousness - on the other hand, it's full of
> very pertinent observations and suggestions, which SHOULD be aimed at
> those who might go on to be our UPMs, DPs, ADs, producers etc - ie
> film students before they start their careers (and of course the
> twisted few who decide to follow our own path).
>
> Perhaps another idea (if any of your students is brave enough to put
> their own work up to scrutiny) would be to have a volunteer's (or even
> randomly selected) last finished short film be put up as a workshop
> example of how they could have avoided sound mistakes or shortcomings
> - scene by scene, shot by shot, going through a badly boomed shot etc
> and suggesting changes (bad location, opportunity for plant mics, time
> put aside for wild adr or WT, change in costume material, etc etc for
> on set sound, and similar suggestions to avoid post sound problems).
>
> I'm sure all would agree that two things are at stake here - and its
> best to introduce the benefits and pitfall of these as early as
> possible across the board of potential filmmakers; first, the pre-
> planning of technical and creative sound and a total integration
> between the production and effects etc recording and the post editing
> and mix; second, the greatest understanding of each other's problems
> and cooperation between all the folks involved in the making of a
> show.
>
> So, good luck with them, and try to keep it fun but moist importantly
> make the ******* learn something!!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jez Adamson
>
> > > On Mar 12, 12:27 am, "Ginzo" wrote:
>
> > I agree and if I had my way I'd probably just extend the lecturewith
> > more production sound info. The thing is our students have had a month
> > of a class called Sound for Film. It's made up of lectures and labs
> > and they actually use all modern location equipment (I.E., Cooper 208,
> > Deva 4 and 5, SD744T, Metacorder, Lectro wireless, Sehnheiser, Sanken,
> > and laviler mics, Comtek). It's a really good class. They learn mixing
> > techniques, booming, how to proper hide lavs, sound effects gathering
> > and a lot more. Unfortunately, by the time they get to my course (Film
> > Production- Super 16mm format short film), it's been a year since the
> > Sound for Film class so they've forgotten a lot and we act as a
> > refresher. I do agree 100% of what your saying, but these "kids" tend
> > to get bored easy. Half the time they don't even like sound as a
> > department. They're mostly interested in making they're own films and
> > it's tough to try and convince someone to "like" production sound. So
> > we decided to make the second part more interactive to keep them
> > interested. We've don't it in our other labs and it just seems to open
> > up there excitement. I have other ideas that I'd like to implament
> > but I'd like to give this a try. Thank you for your input though I
> > think I might put your suggestion to good use.
>
> > Alex Ginzo
>
> > Alex Ginzo- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -


Why not show them a film clip without sound - say the first five
minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Then repeat it with the sound -
mostly sfx though not necessarily foley efx. Perhaps that would
suggest what sound contributes to the "experience". Or create a
video with a person walking up a gravel path to an old house, walking
onto a porch with a hanging windchime then ringing a doorbell and
knocking on the door - perhaps blowing a whistle then finally getting
out a bunch of keys and unlocking the door (creeeak) . Think of all
the sounds that could be created to enhance this clip. Perhaps ask
your class "spot" where each effect would be - (this is known as a
spotting session in post). I would further suggest you build a simple
pit (say 3 by 3 out of scrap wood or an upside down folded card table
and some gravel) and have another table with a variety of objects to
use to create sounds to match the action. Or maybe tell them about
the benefits of becoming plumbers.
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

On Mar 16, 3:48 am, "Rob B" wrote:
> On Mar 14, 12:10 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi again Alex,
>
> > Hmm, saying that the students are largely bored by sound in film
> > largely explains all our problems doesn't it? Hell, if film students
> > treat our work as unnecessary or dull then it's no wonder that we
> > continue to have so many problems down the professional line. FWIW, I
> > wouldn't show the students 'The Letter' as it stands, it's far too
> > defensively written and difficult to expect who it's supposedly aimed
> > at to treat with much seriousness - on the other hand, it's full of
> > very pertinent observations and suggestions, which SHOULD be aimed at
> > those who might go on to be our UPMs, DPs, ADs, producers etc - ie
> > film students before they start their careers (and of course the
> > twisted few who decide to follow our own path).
>
> > Perhaps another idea (if any of your students is brave enough to put
> > their own work up to scrutiny) would be to have a volunteer's (or even
> > randomly selected) last finished short film be put up as a workshop
> > example of how they could have avoided sound mistakes or shortcomings
> > - scene by scene, shot by shot, going through a badly boomed shot etc
> > and suggesting changes (bad location, opportunity for plant mics, time
> > put aside for wild adr or WT, change in costume material, etc etc for
> > on set sound, and similar suggestions to avoid post sound problems).
>
> > I'm sure all would agree that two things are at stake here - and its
> > best to introduce the benefits and pitfall of these as early as
> > possible across the board of potential filmmakers; first, the pre-
> > planning of technical and creative sound and a total integration
> > between the production and effects etc recording and the post editing
> > and mix; second, the greatest understanding of each other's problems
> > and cooperation between all the folks involved in the making of a
> > show.
>
> > So, good luck with them, and try to keep it fun but moist importantly
> > make the ******* learn something!!
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Jez Adamson
>
> > > > On Mar 12, 12:27 am, "Ginzo" wrote:
>
> > > I agree and if I had my way I'd probably just extend the lecturewith
> > > more production sound info. The thing is our students have had a month
> > > of a class called Sound for Film. It's made up of lectures and labs
> > > and they actually use all modern location equipment (I.E., Cooper 208,
> > > Deva 4 and 5, SD744T, Metacorder, Lectro wireless, Sehnheiser, Sanken,
> > > and laviler mics, Comtek). It's a really good class. They learn mixing
> > > techniques, booming, how to proper hide lavs, sound effects gathering
> > > and a lot more. Unfortunately, by the time they get to my course (Film
> > > Production- Super 16mm format short film), it's been a year since the
> > > Sound for Film class so they've forgotten a lot and we act as a
> > > refresher. I do agree 100% of what your saying, but these "kids" tend
> > > to get bored easy. Half the time they don't even like sound as a
> > > department. They're mostly interested in making they're own films and
> > > it's tough to try and convince someone to "like" production sound. So
> > > we decided to make the second part more interactive to keep them
> > > interested. We've don't it in our other labs and it just seems to open
> > > up there excitement. I have other ideas that I'd like to implament
> > > but I'd like to give this a try. Thank you for your input though I
> > > think I might put your suggestion to good use.
>
> > > Alex Ginzo
>
> > > Alex Ginzo- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> Why not show them a film clip without sound - say the first five
> minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Then repeat it with the sound -
> mostly sfx though not necessarily foley efx. Perhaps that would
> suggest what sound contributes to the "experience". Or create a
> video with a person walking up a gravel path to an old house, walking
> onto a porch with a hanging windchime then ringing a doorbell and
> knocking on the door - perhaps blowing a whistle then finally getting
> out a bunch of keys and unlocking the door (creeeak) . Think of all
> the sounds that could be created to enhance this clip. Perhaps ask
> your class "spot" where each effect would be - (this is known as a
> spotting session in post). I would further suggest you build a simple
> pit (say 3 by 3 out of scrap wood or an upside down folded card table
> and some gravel) and have another table with a variety of objects to
> use to create sounds to match the action. Or maybe tell them about
> the benefits of becoming plumbers.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

By the way, I want to say thanks for all your input. I did my lecture
last night as well as 2 labs back to back. I was at work from 9am to
1am, 18 hrs. It turned out okay. They loved the Foley part of my
lecture by the way. I would like to be able to show examples from more
movies and my department and I already had started shooting a funny
movie with our new Arri 416 for a camera test as well as a Foley demo.
All in all, this new lecture is an ever evolving part of our course,
so it won't just end here.

Thanks for all your thoughts. That's why I love RAMPS.

P.S. Hey does anyone remember a post put on here a while ago, about a
portable power supply that's also jumps your car? I remember it having
a 120AC plug on the front of it. Does anyone know the website?

Ginzo
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound 

"Ginzo" wrote in message

> On Mar 16, 3:48 am, "Rob B" wrote:
>> On Mar 14, 12:10 pm, wrote:

BIG SNIP

>
> Thanks for all your thoughts. That's why I love RAMPS.
>
> P.S. Hey does anyone remember a post put on here a while ago, about a
> portable power supply that's also jumps your car? I remember it having
> a 120AC plug on the front of it. Does anyone know the website?
>
> Ginzo

I did a Google search on Jump Starter Inverter and got a bunch of hits
including one that has a small air compressor in it;-) Try this:

http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=21

Steve King
 >> Stay informed about: Foley post production sound