GOLD RUSH on TCM

in article qkMPa.4265$5o5.1486335@news1.news.adelphia.net, El Dorado at
eldorado2.DeleteThis@adelphia.net wrote on 7/12/03 12:41 AM:

> "Fair Pickings" <cpierce.DeleteThis@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:BB34FC77.2D92F%cpierce@twcny.rr.com...
>> Did anybody notice that Robert Osborne's into to THE GOLD RUSH the other
>> night did not indicate that it was the '42 re-issue that they'd be
> showing?
>> I wonder what the unenlightened thought of this "silent" film that had
>> talking throughout? I got the impression the folks at TCM didn't KNOW
>> they'd be showing the re-issue version.
>>
>> Art Pierce
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure you're right. I set my VCR to tape the film, thinking it
> was the 1925 version. All the advertising material I saw seemed to confirm
> this. But alas, it was the 1942 re-issue, with its lethally improper
> editing that destroys the lovely original ending.
>
> Dan N.
>
>


Well, I'm not necessarily OPPOSED to them running this version (it's the
first GOLD RUSH I knew and I still have a soft spot in my heart for it), but
if they ARE going to play it I think they should alert the unsuspecting
audience of it. After all, probably a goodly share of those tuning in had
never seen a silent before, and this would likely confuse them. And, as you
say, the ending is pretty much ruined.

Art Pierce
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

I think TCM knew exactly what they were doing based on the new DVD volume of
Chaplin's work that has been released, and of which I recently purchased. On
all the four films in Volume I there are two discs. Disc 1 is "the film;"
disc 2 is the supplements. For The Gold Rush, "the film" is the 1942
version; the original 1925 silent version is on disc 2 as a supplement.
Since the '42 version is the only one Chaplin was able to copyright, I'm
sure it's the one the estate sees as the official version. From that way of
thinking, perhaps TCM didn't feel they had a choice in what version to play.

I don't think TCM is that clueless; they were highlighting the new dvd
release and showcasing the films and a supplement or two. But you are
right--they should have at least announced which version they were showing.
I hope the '25 version makes it to a Silent Sunday screening, if it hasn't
already. It looks beautiful on dvd.

BTW, the dvd set is gorgeous. The films are beautiful, most of the
supplements are appropriate (some of the government/industry stuff on Modern
Times were snorers but I understood why they were there at least) and they
are packaged nicely.

denise


"Fair Pickings" <cpierce DeleteThis @twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BB353B03.2D94D%cpierce@twcny.rr.com...
> in article qkMPa.4265$5o5.1486335@news1.news.adelphia.net, El Dorado at
> eldorado2 DeleteThis @adelphia.net wrote on 7/12/03 12:41 AM:
>
> > "Fair Pickings" <cpierce DeleteThis @twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:BB34FC77.2D92F%cpierce@twcny.rr.com...
> >> Did anybody notice that Robert Osborne's into to THE GOLD RUSH the
other
> >> night did not indicate that it was the '42 re-issue that they'd be
> > showing?
> >> I wonder what the unenlightened thought of this "silent" film that had
> >> talking throughout? I got the impression the folks at TCM didn't KNOW
> >> they'd be showing the re-issue version.
> >>
> >> Art Pierce
> >>
> >
> > I'm pretty sure you're right. I set my VCR to tape the film, thinking
it
> > was the 1925 version. All the advertising material I saw seemed to
confirm
> > this. But alas, it was the 1942 re-issue, with its lethally improper
> > editing that destroys the lovely original ending.
> >
> > Dan N.
> >
> >
>
>
> Well, I'm not necessarily OPPOSED to them running this version (it's the
> first GOLD RUSH I knew and I still have a soft spot in my heart for it),
but
> if they ARE going to play it I think they should alert the unsuspecting
> audience of it. After all, probably a goodly share of those tuning in had
> never seen a silent before, and this would likely confuse them. And, as
you
> say, the ending is pretty much ruined.
>
> Art Pierce
>
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

Entertainment Weekly featured the Chaplin set as the
pick of the week of new DVD releases. The writer
of the review gave the set good grades (I think A's or
A- for everything but Limelight) and must know
what he or she is talking about because they
included the suggestion to skip Gold Rush on the
first disc and go right to the silent version on the
second disc of "extras".
>
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"Denise Morrison" <DMORRISON8.TakeThisOut@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:s_TPa.207545$Xl.3437704@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> I hope the '25 version makes it to a Silent Sunday screening, if it hasn't
> already. It looks beautiful on dvd.
>

Paul Killiam's 1970s restoration of the 1925 GOLD RUSH, with a William Perry
piano score, has played TCM multiple times, including the Sunday Silents
slot, and always in B/W.

IIRC, this version (back when it circulated often in 16mm) was color tinted
on Eastmancolor stock, but perhaps by the time it was copied to tape for the
TCM screenings, all surviving color prints had gone red.

Or was this an aesthetic decision by Killiam's successors?

Killiam's 1970s restoration of THE EAGLE is playing TCM's Sunday Silents
slot tonight, and that film was also once distributed by him in a
color-tinted version, I recall, but only shows up on TCM in B/W.

Perhaps the video transfers were made from the Blackhawk B/W 16mm prints
which Killiam also licensed back in the 1970s.

Come to think of it, has TCM ever run one of Killiam's restorations in its
color-tinted version?

When the copyright notice on Killiam's title card flashes by, the "new
material" claim is usually listed in small print as being made on both the
music score and on the color tinting --- but the colors (other than the
MS-DOS BSOD-style blue background of Killiam's title card) are usually
missing from the rest of the feature.
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"Robert Miller" <robertm.RemoveThis@niu.edu> wrote in message
news:beqq6d$o3s$1@husk.cso.niu.edu...
>
> Paul Killiam's 1970s restoration of the 1925 GOLD RUSH, with a William
Perry
> piano score, has played TCM multiple times, including the Sunday Silents
> slot, and always in B/W.
>

Indeed it has, and it is that particular print that I want to get away from.
"The Gold Rush" is a beautiful film (talking about the 1925 version, here),
and probably Chaplin's masterpiece. ("City Lights" comes close.) But the
print of it that has besmirched the airwaves (cablewaves?) over the last
five or six years -- first on AMC, lately on TCM -- is a disgrace to anyone
screening it for the public.

The scene where the little prospector (Chaplin) meets Georgia, in the dance
hall, jitters throughout the entire scene. I thought when the film switched
venues -- from AMC to TCM -- a better print would be used, but no. And the
William Perry piano score sounds hideously distorted, as if someone is
playing it at a faster speed than is proper.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the DVD looks like. Maybe someone on
this group can tell me. I've tried to buy it, but the stores keep telling
me it hasn't been released to them yet.

Hopefully, the jumpiness and noise of the old print will be gone when I
finally get to play the DVD.

Cheers,
Dan N.
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

El Dorado wrote:

> I set my VCR to tape the film, thinking it was the
> 1925 version. All the advertising material I saw
> seemed to confirm this. But alas, it was the 1942
> re-issue, with its lethally improper editing that
> destroys the lovely original ending.


I was assuming it was a digitally restored
version of the original with, I hoped,
a cleaned up look to make up for the
less than adequate lighting. I refuse
to watch this 1942 re-issue, mostly
because I can't stand narration that
insults my intelligence.

This would be like colorization, i.e.
adding sound for those people who
didn't like silent films.

Bob t
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

> Come to think of it, has TCM ever run one of Killiam's restorations in its
> color-tinted version?
>

I can't recall if TCM has, but The Western Channel has shown them - I can't
exactly recall which film. It looked like the color was losing it's grip on
the print that was shown - the restoration was in need of a restoration!

Uncle Dave Lewis
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"El Dorado" <eldorado2.DeleteThis@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:XC6Qa.441$p26.87356@news1.news.adelphia.net...

> I'm looking forward to seeing what the DVD looks like. Maybe someone on
> this group can tell me. I've tried to buy it, but the stores keep telling
> me it hasn't been released to them yet.
>
> Hopefully, the jumpiness and noise of the old print will be gone when I
> finally get to play the DVD.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan N.

Hey Dan,

I bought my set of Chaplin dvds at Costco last weekend (sort of an
independence day present to myself). The films weren't sold seperately but
as a set in one of those big plastic cases that are the devil to try and
open. But it's extraordinarily nice; all the films look first-rate to me. I
was surprised that the '25 Gold Rush, was one of the supplements but then
remembered that the Chaplin estate only holds copyright for the '42 version
so thought maybe they felt that version had to be the definitive one (which
it ain't for most of us). The '25 version is beautiful and not tinted, which
I'm not sure was originally. Wasn't that a Killiam thing? To add tinting
even to films that weren't originally? Don't know. Anyway, it's a beauty and
I hope you get your volume soon! You'll be pleased with them I'm sure.

denise
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"Denise Morrison" <DMORRISON8.DeleteThis@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:LUfQa.103752$fe.2261038@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> Wasn't that a Killiam thing? To add tinting
> even to films that weren't originally? Don't know.
>

Yes, it was, although back 25-30 years ago information was not as readily
available on a silent film's tinting status as it is now, in the cyber-age
of archival databases.

But there was also a commercial angle.

Killiam and his small restoration/distribution staff used to promote their
silents catalog (which certainly stood out in a competitive sea of fuzzy,
b/w dupers and their mute prints or endless repetitions of the Tarbox/Movie
Wonderland track) as exclusively featuring prints which were "color-tinted
and scored with new music tracks".

When Paul surprised his regular customers by announcing his acquisition of a
contract to score and distribute the Clara Bow-starring IT (through an old
school friend with ties to the rights-holders, IIRC) it marked a departure
into non-tinted print territory.

I remember asking him if we were going to see the famous redhead in a
color-tinted version of her great success, and he said, "No. We discovered
that the film was never released with color tints, and we decided it looked
best that way."

And now....

Some questions for the many Chaplin scholars on AMS:

Did Charlie ever go on record with his feelings about tinting or toning?

Assuming that at least some of his early shorts must have had colored stock
or emulsion, at what point did he call a halt to the process, and did he
ever explain why?
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

El Dorado wrote:

> Indeed it has, and it is that particular print that I want to get away from.
> "The Gold Rush" is a beautiful film (talking about the 1925 version, here),
> and probably Chaplin's masterpiece. ("City Lights" comes close.) But the
> print of it that has besmirched the airwaves (cablewaves?) over the last
> five or six years -- first on AMC, lately on TCM -- is a disgrace to anyone
> screening it for the public.
>
> The scene where the little prospector (Chaplin) meets Georgia, in the dance
> hall, jitters throughout the entire scene. I thought when the film switched
> venues -- from AMC to TCM -- a better print would be used, but no. And the
> William Perry piano score sounds hideously distorted, as if someone is
> playing it at a faster speed than is proper.

Which shows how much a film can deteriorate in just a few decades...I remember
the color tinted version from PBS in the 70's...undoubtedly the first time I saw
the film, and I was bowled over. Aside from being a little contrasty, I
remember the print quality being quite impressive, the tints lovely, and Perry's
score gave me chills...I still have the Silent Years LP which featured it and
several other scores from the series..."Georgia's Theme" as I recall was used as
the overall Silent Years series theme as well.
I taped it last time TCM ran it...pitiable.
Archie Waugh
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"Denise Morrison" (DMORRISON8@kc.rr.com) writes:
> I think TCM knew exactly what they were doing based on the new DVD volume of
> Chaplin's work that has been released, and of which I recently purchased. On
> all the four films in Volume I there are two discs. Disc 1 is "the film;"
> disc 2 is the supplements. For The Gold Rush, "the film" is the 1942
> version; the original 1925 silent version is on disc 2 as a supplement.
> Since the '42 version is the only one Chaplin was able to copyright, I'm
> sure it's the one the estate sees as the official version. From that way of
> thinking, perhaps TCM didn't feel they had a choice in what version to play.

Both versions were copyrighted. '25 fell out of copyright in the early
fifties by oversight, since Chaplin's life was being disrupted at the time.
The estate now claims copyright on all versions--a claim often disputed
here.

> I don't think TCM is that clueless; they were highlighting the new dvd
> release and showcasing the films and a supplement or two. But you are
> right--they should have at least announced which version they were showing.
> I hope the '25 version makes it to a Silent Sunday screening, if it hasn't
> already. It looks beautiful on dvd.

It's an excellent restoration--certainly the best available.

Connie K.


> BTW, the dvd set is gorgeous. The films are beautiful, most of the
> supplements are appropriate (some of the government/industry stuff on Modern
> Times were snorers but I understood why they were there at least) and they
> are packaged nicely.
>
> denise
>
>
> "Fair Pickings" <cpierce.TakeThisOut@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:BB353B03.2D94D%cpierce@twcny.rr.com...
>> in article qkMPa.4265$5o5.1486335@news1.news.adelphia.net, El Dorado at
>> eldorado2.TakeThisOut@adelphia.net wrote on 7/12/03 12:41 AM:
>>
>> > "Fair Pickings" <cpierce.TakeThisOut@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
>> > news:BB34FC77.2D92F%cpierce@twcny.rr.com...
>> >> Did anybody notice that Robert Osborne's into to THE GOLD RUSH the
> other
>> >> night did not indicate that it was the '42 re-issue that they'd be
>> > showing?
>> >> I wonder what the unenlightened thought of this "silent" film that had
>> >> talking throughout? I got the impression the folks at TCM didn't KNOW
>> >> they'd be showing the re-issue version.
>> >>
>> >> Art Pierce
>> >>
>> >
>> > I'm pretty sure you're right. I set my VCR to tape the film, thinking
> it
>> > was the 1925 version. All the advertising material I saw seemed to
> confirm
>> > this. But alas, it was the 1942 re-issue, with its lethally improper
>> > editing that destroys the lovely original ending.
>> >
>> > Dan N.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Well, I'm not necessarily OPPOSED to them running this version (it's the
>> first GOLD RUSH I knew and I still have a soft spot in my heart for it),
> but
>> if they ARE going to play it I think they should alert the unsuspecting
>> audience of it. After all, probably a goodly share of those tuning in had
>> never seen a silent before, and this would likely confuse them. And, as
> you
>> say, the ending is pretty much ruined.
>>
>> Art Pierce
>>
>
>

--
"Our century is inconceivable without its . . . inconclusive mob of isms."
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"Robert Miller" (robertm@niu.edu) writes:
> "Denise Morrison" <DMORRISON8.RemoveThis@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:s_TPa.207545$Xl.3437704@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>
>> I hope the '25 version makes it to a Silent Sunday screening, if it hasn't
>> already. It looks beautiful on dvd.
>>
>
> Paul Killiam's 1970s restoration of the 1925 GOLD RUSH, with a William Perry
> piano score, has played TCM multiple times, including the Sunday Silents
> slot, and always in B/W.
>
> IIRC, this version (back when it circulated often in 16mm) was color tinted
> on Eastmancolor stock, but perhaps by the time it was copied to tape for the
> TCM screenings, all surviving color prints had gone red.
>
> Or was this an aesthetic decision by Killiam's successors?

This isn't the version on the Warners. As for color tinting, Chaplin
generally didn't use it, except *possibly* for night scenes in the
early shorts.

Connie K.

> Killiam's 1970s restoration of THE EAGLE is playing TCM's Sunday Silents
> slot tonight, and that film was also once distributed by him in a
> color-tinted version, I recall, but only shows up on TCM in B/W.
>
> Perhaps the video transfers were made from the Blackhawk B/W 16mm prints
> which Killiam also licensed back in the 1970s.
>
> Come to think of it, has TCM ever run one of Killiam's restorations in its
> color-tinted version?
>
> When the copyright notice on Killiam's title card flashes by, the "new
> material" claim is usually listed in small print as being made on both the
> music score and on the color tinting --- but the colors (other than the
> MS-DOS BSOD-style blue background of Killiam's title card) are usually
> missing from the rest of the feature.
>
>

--
"Our century is inconceivable without its . . . inconclusive mob of isms."
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM 

"El Dorado" (eldorado2@adelphia.net) writes:
> "Robert Miller" <robertm.DeleteThis@niu.edu> wrote in message
> news:beqq6d$o3s$1@husk.cso.niu.edu...
>>
>> Paul Killiam's 1970s restoration of the 1925 GOLD RUSH, with a William
> Perry
>> piano score, has played TCM multiple times, including the Sunday Silents
>> slot, and always in B/W.
>>
>
> Indeed it has, and it is that particular print that I want to get away from.
> "The Gold Rush" is a beautiful film (talking about the 1925 version, here),
> and probably Chaplin's masterpiece. ("City Lights" comes close.) But the
> print of it that has besmirched the airwaves (cablewaves?) over the last
> five or six years -- first on AMC, lately on TCM -- is a disgrace to anyone
> screening it for the public.
>
> The scene where the little prospector (Chaplin) meets Georgia, in the dance
> hall, jitters throughout the entire scene. I thought when the film switched
> venues -- from AMC to TCM -- a better print would be used, but no. And the
> William Perry piano score sounds hideously distorted, as if someone is
> playing it at a faster speed than is proper.
>
> I'm looking forward to seeing what the DVD looks like. Maybe someone on
> this group can tell me. I've tried to buy it, but the stores keep telling
> me it hasn't been released to them yet.
>
> Hopefully, the jumpiness and noise of the old print will be gone when I
> finally get to play the DVD.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan N.

What you'll be seeing is the Brownlow-Gill restoration, which is far
superior to the Killiam, with the ending you prefer well restored.

I like both versions of the film. I understand the preference for
'25 on this group, but at best what you'll get of it is a restoration.

Connie K.
--
"Our century is inconceivable without its . . . inconclusive mob of isms."
 >> Stay informed about: GOLD RUSH on TCM