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Next: Chaplin and Sturges
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Since: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:19 pm
Post subject: Grading The Chaplin Features...
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)
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Including everything I can think of...
Tillie's Punctured Romance = C Minus
The Kid = A Plus
A Woman of Paris = B Plus
The Gold Rush (1925) = A
The Circus = A Plus
Show People = B Plus
City Lights = A Plus (but not a great comedy)
Modern Times = A Plus
CC Cavalcade = A
CC Carnival = A
CC Festival = A Plus
The Great Dictator = A
The Gold Rush (1942) - C Minus
M. Verdoux - D
Limelight - B Minus
King in New York - B Plus
The Chaplin Revue - A Minus
Countess of Hong Kong - D Minus
Just my take on them.
DBP |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Pearson wrote:
> Including everything I can think of...
>
> Tillie's Punctured Romance = C Minus
> The Kid = A Plus
> A Woman of Paris = B Plus
> The Gold Rush (1925) = A
> The Circus = A Plus
> Show People = B Plus
> City Lights = A Plus (but not a great comedy)
> Modern Times = A Plus
> CC Cavalcade = A
> CC Carnival = A
> CC Festival = A Plus
> The Great Dictator = A
> The Gold Rush (1942) - C Minus
> M. Verdoux - D
> Limelight - B Minus
> King in New York - B Plus
> The Chaplin Revue - A Minus
> Countess of Hong Kong - D Minus
>
> Just my take on them.
>
> DBP
I'll just grade the feature films:
The Kid = A
A Woman of Paris = A Minus
The Gold Rush (1925) = A Plus
The Circus = A Minus
City Lights = A Plus
Modern Times = A
The Great Dictator = B Minus
The Gold Rush (1942) - B Minus
M. Verdoux - A Minus
Limelight - B
King in New York - F
Countess of Hong Kong - F
Tom Moran |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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James Neibaur wrote:
> Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
>> King in New York - F
>> Countess of Hong Kong - F
> You really think these films are at the level one would give
> a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
> Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
> redeeming value whatsoever?
Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
get an F?
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 349
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Feuillade wrote:
> James Neibaur wrote:
>
> > Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
>
> >> King in New York - F
> >> Countess of Hong Kong - F
>
> > You really think these films are at the level one would give
> > a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
>
> Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
>
> And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
> worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
> would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
>
> Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
>
> > Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
> > redeeming value whatsoever?
>
> Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> get an F?
Hard to say. When "dreadful" gets a B-, who knows what the grading
scale allows or requires. ;-) >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Totheroh wrote:
> Feuillade wrote:
> > James Neibaur wrote:
> >
> > > Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
> >
> > >> King in New York - F
> > >> Countess of Hong Kong - F
> >
> > > You really think these films are at the level one would give
> > > a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
> >
> > Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
> >
> > And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
> > worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
> > would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
> >
> > Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
> >
> > > Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
> > > redeeming value whatsoever?
> >
> > Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> > get an F?
> Hard to say. When "dreadful" gets a B-, who knows what the grading
> scale allows or requires. ;-)
"Dreadful" was Lloyd's word, not mine.
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Jan 16, 2005
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Feuillade wrote:
> David Totheroh wrote:
> > Feuillade wrote:
> > > James Neibaur wrote:
> > >
> > > > Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
> > >
> > > >> King in New York - F
> > > >> Countess of Hong Kong - F
> > >
> > > > You really think these films are at the level one would give
> > > > a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
> > >
> > > Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
> > >
> > > And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
> > > worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
> > > would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
> > >
> > > Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
> > >
> > > > Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
> > > > redeeming value whatsoever?
> > >
> > > Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> > > get an F?
>
> > Hard to say. When "dreadful" gets a B-, who knows what the grading
> > scale allows or requires. ;-)
>
> "Dreadful" was Lloyd's word, not mine.
Yep. About which you said "if someone used the word "dreadful" I
wouldn't fight them too hard on it." >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Pearson 2/18/06 12:19 PM
> Including everything I can think of...
OK, I'll play too --- but no plusses or minuses for me, and no compilations.
> Tillie's Punctured Romance = C Minus
B
> The Kid = A Plus
A
> A Woman of Paris = B Plus
B
> The Gold Rush (1925) = A
A
> The Circus = A Plus
A
> Show People = B Plus
B
> City Lights = A Plus (but not a great comedy)
A
> Modern Times = A Plus
A
> The Great Dictator = A
B
> M. Verdoux - D
C
> Limelight - B Minus
B
> King in New York - B Plus
C
> Countess of Hong Kong - D Minus
C
> Just my take on them.
>
> DBP
and mine
JN >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
> King in New York - F
> Countess of Hong Kong - F
You really think these films are at the level one would give a movie like
Freddy Got Fingered? Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
redeeming value whatsoever?
JN >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> James Neibaur wrote:
>
>> Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
>
>>> King in New York - F
>>> Countess of Hong Kong - F
>
>> You really think these films are at the level one would give
>> a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
>
> Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
>
> And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
> worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
> would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
>
> Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
>
>> Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
>> redeeming value whatsoever?
>
> Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> get an F?
>
> Tom Moran
>
Well, some room has to be reserved at the bottom, if the grading
scale is to mean anything.
I'd give _King_ a C- and _Countess_ a D, though the music in both
is much better than the rest.
Connie K. >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:51 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Totheroh wrote:
> Feuillade wrote:
> > David Totheroh wrote:
> > > Feuillade wrote:
> > > > James Neibaur wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
> > > >
> > > > >> King in New York - F
> > > > >> Countess of Hong Kong - F
> > > >
> > > > > You really think these films are at the level one would give
> > > > > a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
> > > >
> > > > Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
> > > >
> > > > And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
> > > > worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
> > > > would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
> > > >
> > > > Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
> > > >
> > > > > Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
> > > > > redeeming value whatsoever?
> > > >
> > > > Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> > > > get an F?
> >
> > > Hard to say. When "dreadful" gets a B-, who knows what the grading
> > > scale allows or requires. ;-)
> >
> > "Dreadful" was Lloyd's word, not mine.
>
> Yep. About which you said "if someone used the word "dreadful" I
> wouldn't fight them too hard on it."
It's still Lloyd's word, not mine. :)
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:54 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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James Neibaur wrote:
> Feuillade 2/18/06 5:34 PM
> > Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> > get an F?
> Yes. F means failure. I grade papers for a living.
This is true. I don't grade papers for a living: never have.
But does a film have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to be a
failure?
I believe that both AKINY and ACFHK are both failures. Whether or not
they have any redeeming features is for others to decide.
For me, neither one of them works, and that's enough to justify an F.
You may be an easier grader than me, having had more practice.
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Posts: 671
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:54 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> David Pearson wrote:
>> Including everything I can think of...
>>
>> Tillie's Punctured Romance = C Minus
>> The Kid = A Plus
>> A Woman of Paris = B Plus
>> The Gold Rush (1925) = A
>> The Circus = A Plus
>> Show People = B Plus
>> City Lights = A Plus (but not a great comedy)
>> Modern Times = A Plus
>> CC Cavalcade = A
>> CC Carnival = A
>> CC Festival = A Plus
>> The Great Dictator = A
>> The Gold Rush (1942) - C Minus
>> M. Verdoux - D
>> Limelight - B Minus
>> King in New York - B Plus
>> The Chaplin Revue - A Minus
>> Countess of Hong Kong - D Minus
>>
>> Just my take on them.
>>
>> DBP
>
> I'll just grade the feature films:
>
> The Kid = A
> A Woman of Paris = A Minus
> The Gold Rush (1925) = A Plus
> The Circus = A Minus
> City Lights = A Plus
> Modern Times = A
> The Great Dictator = B Minus
> The Gold Rush (1942) - B Minus
> M. Verdoux - A Minus
> Limelight - B
> King in New York - F
> Countess of Hong Kong - F
>
> Tom Moran
I'd give _Modern Times_ an A+, _Dictator_ and _Limelight_ a B+, wouldn't
grade GR'42 separately, and wouldn't give anything an F. Otherwise my
marks would be close to Tom's.
Why don't we try grading the 12 Mutuals? That should produce
interesting results.
Connie K. >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:56 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Constance Kuriyama wrote:
> "Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> > James Neibaur wrote:
> >
> >> Feuillade 2/18/06 3:27 PM
> >
> >>> King in New York - F
> >>> Countess of Hong Kong - F
> >
> >> You really think these films are at the level one would give
> >> a movie like Freddy Got Fingered?
> >
> > Since I haven't seen it, I wouldn't know.
> >
> > And I'm not sure that, even assuming that "Freddy Got Fingered" is the
> > worst movie ever made (and judging by the critics it may well be), that
> > would have any influence whatever on how I would grade a Chaplin film.
> >
> > Bad is bad, even if others make worse.
> >
> >> Is bad Chaplin genuinely bad cinema with literally no
> >> redeeming value whatsoever?
> >
> > Does a film necessarily have to have "no redeeming value whatsoever" to
> > get an F?
> >
> > Tom Moran
> >
>
> Well, some room has to be reserved at the bottom, if the grading
> scale is to mean anything.
>
> I'd give _King_ a C- and _Countess_ a D, though the music in both
> is much better than the rest.
I'll grant you that ACFHK has a lovely score -- one of Chaplin's best
(possibly second only to his score for "Modern Times").
But a good score doesn't make a bad film good.
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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Posts: 564
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:59 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Constance Kuriyama wrote:
> "Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> > David Pearson wrote:
> >> Including everything I can think of...
> >>
> >> Tillie's Punctured Romance = C Minus
> >> The Kid = A Plus
> >> A Woman of Paris = B Plus
> >> The Gold Rush (1925) = A
> >> The Circus = A Plus
> >> Show People = B Plus
> >> City Lights = A Plus (but not a great comedy)
> >> Modern Times = A Plus
> >> CC Cavalcade = A
> >> CC Carnival = A
> >> CC Festival = A Plus
> >> The Great Dictator = A
> >> The Gold Rush (1942) - C Minus
> >> M. Verdoux - D
> >> Limelight - B Minus
> >> King in New York - B Plus
> >> The Chaplin Revue - A Minus
> >> Countess of Hong Kong - D Minus
> >>
> >> Just my take on them.
> >>
> >> DBP
> >
> > I'll just grade the feature films:
> >
> > The Kid = A
> > A Woman of Paris = A Minus
> > The Gold Rush (1925) = A Plus
> > The Circus = A Minus
> > City Lights = A Plus
> > Modern Times = A
> > The Great Dictator = B Minus
> > The Gold Rush (1942) - B Minus
> > M. Verdoux - A Minus
> > Limelight - B
> > King in New York - F
> > Countess of Hong Kong - F
> >
> > Tom Moran
>
> I'd give _Modern Times_ an A+, _Dictator_ and _Limelight_ a B+, wouldn't
> grade GR'42 separately, and wouldn't give anything an F. Otherwise my
> marks would be close to Tom's.
Clearly great minds think alike. :)
The voice-over and recutting loses the '42 "Gold Rush" enough to mark
it down from its 1925 A plus to a B Minus.
> Why don't we try grading the 12 Mutuals? That should produce
> interesting results.
I'd want to go over them again. It's been awhile since I've seen the
Mutuals.
And which version would we be grading? :)
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... |
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