Welcome to MovieandPop.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Grading The Chaplin Features...

 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
   Movie Forums (Home) -> Charlie Chaplin RSS
Next:  Chaplin and Sturges  
Author Message
Feuillade

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)

James Neibaur wrote:

> Constance Kuriyama 2/18/06 11:54 PM

>> Why don't we try grading the 12 Mutuals? That should produce
>> interesting results.

> ok

> all A's

Nah -- because if you give a film like "Easy Street" the A it deserves,
then what do you give "The Fireman"? Certainly not an A.

Tom Moran

 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Feuillade

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

James Neibaur wrote:

> Feuillade 2/19/06 8:50 AM

>> Nah -- because if you give a film like "Easy Street" the
>> A it deserves, then what do you give "The Fireman"?
>> Certainly not an A.

> Gotcha! Exactly!

> A King in New York, then, is not an F.

The logic here is less than impeccable.

"Easy Street is an A therefore The Fireman is not an A" does not equate
to:

"A King in New York is not an F."

I would say it's much more like:

"If City Lights is an A Plus then A King in New York is an F"

> Not when something that is truly reprehensible and
> so much worse would be an F.

You're assuming that in order to get an F it has to be "truly
reprehensible and so much worse" to merit an F. We just don't agree on
that.

A bad film gets an F. And to say that one film is an F is not to say
that there aren't other, far worse films that are also Fs.

It is just to say that that film, for whatever reason, is a failure.

Failure merits an F. Wheter it's truly reprehensible or just run of
the mill bad. They're both still Fs, in my book.

<snip>

> King in NY is an average movie.

Have you read nothing I've posted on this film over the years?

It's not an "average" movie. It's a bad, painfully unfunny movie.

And it deserves an F.

(And I'm going to stop here before Bruce starts pounding me.)

Tom Moran

 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Feuillade

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:49 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

James Neibaur wrote:

<snip>

> (who is ready to go off topic and rate the Three Stooges
> two-reelers, but only George would play along and there
> would be a nasty Shemp argument.)

Why don't you just give us the top ten?

I'd be interested, at least.

Tom Moran
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Feuillade

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564



(Msg. 19) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:04 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

James Neibaur wrote:

> Feuillade 2/19/06 9:40 AM

>> A bad film gets an F.

> OK if you say so

> The Count F

I don't know that I'd give any of the Mutuals an F. Although some are
better than others.

Tom Moran
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Richard Carnahan

External


Since: Feb 03, 2006
Posts: 170



(Msg. 20) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

James Neibaur wrote:
> Feuillade 2/19/06 8:50 AM
>
> > Nah -- because if you give a film like "Easy Street" the A it deserves,
> > then what do you give "The Fireman"? Certainly not an A.
>
> Gotcha! Exactly!
>
> A King in New York, then, is not an F. Not when something that is truly
> reprehensible and so much worse would be an F. Same as your criteria
> regarding Easy Street, which is clearly a much better film than The Fireman
> so they could not both get the absolute highest possible grade.
>
> King in NY is an average movie. Chaplin is better than average, so we
> expect more (especially since you likely first saw this, as I did, after we
> were already quite clear as to Chaplin's genius). There are brief funny
> moments in King when Chaplin targets wide screen movies, or loud music in a
> quaint cafe. But it is preachy and uneven. Of course you may
> understandably hate the movie, but I don't see where it would objectively
> rank with the absolute lowest possible grade alongside Manos Hands of Fate.
> If you think about it, by your objective assessment, it would probably get a
> D as being far below the standard set by the filmmaker (I think it is better
> than that, but only average, which is bad for Chaplin, ok for The Ritz
> Brothers).
>
> Ok, the Mutual films, and no kidding this time.
>
> The Floorwalker A
> The Fireman B
> The Vagabond B
> One A.M. B
> ----note on the above two -- I think they are more interesting than funny
> The Count B
> The Pawnshop A
> Behind the Screen B
> The Rink A
> Easy Street A
> The Cure A
> The Immigrant A
> The Adventurer B
>
I'd give THE ADVENTURER an A. I've never seen a comedy--silent or
sound--go over better with an audience.
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Feuillade

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564



(Msg. 21) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:15 am
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Richard Carnahan wrote:

> I'd give THE ADVENTURER an A. I've never seen a
> comedy--silent or sound--go over better with an audience.

I agree. I think "The Adventurer" is one of the best of Chaplin's pure
comedies -- no pathos, just action and slapstick.

Tom Moran
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Feuillade

External


Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564



(Msg. 22) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

James Neibaur wrote:

> Constance Kuriyama 2/19/06 12:32 PM

>>> Easy Street A

>> Definitely an A+

> Indeed.

> I stay away from plusses and minuses (as well as halves
> when using star ratings)

> Easy Street is one of the most brilliant short comedies
> ever made.

Finally! Something we agree on! :)

Tom Moran
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
James Neibaur

External


Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988



(Msg. 23) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Feuillade 2/19/06 7:54 AM

> For me, neither one of them works, and that's enough to justify an F.

Below average I can see -- but failure is the absolute bottom with no lower
grade. Chaplin never reached those depths.

JN
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
James Neibaur

External


Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988



(Msg. 24) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Constance Kuriyama 2/18/06 11:54 PM

> Why don't we try grading the 12 Mutuals? That should produce
> interesting results.

ok

all A's

JN
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
James Neibaur

External


Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988



(Msg. 25) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Feuillade 2/19/06 8:50 AM

> Nah -- because if you give a film like "Easy Street" the A it deserves,
> then what do you give "The Fireman"? Certainly not an A.

Gotcha! Exactly!

A King in New York, then, is not an F. Not when something that is truly
reprehensible and so much worse would be an F. Same as your criteria
regarding Easy Street, which is clearly a much better film than The Fireman
so they could not both get the absolute highest possible grade.

King in NY is an average movie. Chaplin is better than average, so we
expect more (especially since you likely first saw this, as I did, after we
were already quite clear as to Chaplin's genius). There are brief funny
moments in King when Chaplin targets wide screen movies, or loud music in a
quaint cafe. But it is preachy and uneven. Of course you may
understandably hate the movie, but I don't see where it would objectively
rank with the absolute lowest possible grade alongside Manos Hands of Fate.
If you think about it, by your objective assessment, it would probably get a
D as being far below the standard set by the filmmaker (I think it is better
than that, but only average, which is bad for Chaplin, ok for The Ritz
Brothers).

Ok, the Mutual films, and no kidding this time.

The Floorwalker A
The Fireman B
The Vagabond B
One A.M. B
----note on the above two -- I think they are more interesting than funny
The Count B
The Pawnshop A
Behind the Screen B
The Rink A
Easy Street A
The Cure A
The Immigrant A
The Adventurer B

I would suggest ranking the Essanays next, but everyone runs and hides
whenever I bring them up. Maybe it's because I like them better than the
First Nationals, but that's just my wacky opinion. I would try to be a bit
more objective if we were playing ratings game.

JN
(who is ready to go off topic and rate the Three Stooges two-reelers, but
only George would play along and there would be a nasty Shemp argument.)
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
George Shelps

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886



(Msg. 26) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jim N wrote:

>who is ready to go off topic and rate the
>Three Stooges two-reelers, but only
>George would play along and there>
>would be a nasty Shemp argument.)

Yeh, that might be fun.

But I have been watching more Shemp
lately and am beginning to see through
the bacon grease in his hair to the
inner essence of his comedic spirit.







++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentis."
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
James Neibaur

External


Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988



(Msg. 27) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Feuillade 2/19/06 9:40 AM

> A bad film gets an F.

OK if you say so

The Count F

JN
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
James Neibaur

External


Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988



(Msg. 28) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Feuillade 2/19/06 9:49 AM

>> (who is ready to go off topic and rate the Three Stooges
>> two-reelers, but only George would play along and there
>> would be a nasty Shemp argument.)
>
> Why don't you just give us the top ten?
>
> I'd be interested, at least.

Nah, too far off topic

JN
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Constance Kuriyama

External


Since: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 671



(Msg. 29) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> Constance Kuriyama wrote:
>> "Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
>> > David Pearson wrote:
>> >> Including everything I can think of...
>> >>
>> >> Tillie's Punctured Romance = C Minus
>> >> The Kid = A Plus
>> >> A Woman of Paris = B Plus
>> >> The Gold Rush (1925) = A
>> >> The Circus = A Plus
>> >> Show People = B Plus
>> >> City Lights = A Plus (but not a great comedy)
>> >> Modern Times = A Plus
>> >> CC Cavalcade = A
>> >> CC Carnival = A
>> >> CC Festival = A Plus
>> >> The Great Dictator = A
>> >> The Gold Rush (1942) - C Minus
>> >> M. Verdoux - D
>> >> Limelight - B Minus
>> >> King in New York - B Plus
>> >> The Chaplin Revue - A Minus
>> >> Countess of Hong Kong - D Minus
>> >>
>> >> Just my take on them.
>> >>
>> >> DBP
>> >
>> > I'll just grade the feature films:
>> >
>> > The Kid = A
>> > A Woman of Paris = A Minus
>> > The Gold Rush (1925) = A Plus
>> > The Circus = A Minus
>> > City Lights = A Plus
>> > Modern Times = A
>> > The Great Dictator = B Minus
>> > The Gold Rush (1942) - B Minus
>> > M. Verdoux - A Minus
>> > Limelight - B
>> > King in New York - F
>> > Countess of Hong Kong - F
>> >
>> > Tom Moran
>>
>> I'd give _Modern Times_ an A+, _Dictator_ and _Limelight_ a B+, wouldn't
>> grade GR'42 separately, and wouldn't give anything an F. Otherwise my
>> marks would be close to Tom's.
>
> Clearly great minds think alike. :)
>
> The voice-over and recutting loses the '42 "Gold Rush" enough to mark
> it down from its 1925 A plus to a B Minus.
>
>> Why don't we try grading the 12 Mutuals? That should produce
>> interesting results.
>
> I'd want to go over them again. It's been awhile since I've seen the
> Mutuals.
>
> And which version would we be grading? :)
>
> Tom Moran
>

The best versions currently available, which would be the Image or the BFI,
would do, but I think most versions preserve the basic qualities of
the Mutuals, even though some are more complete than others.

Connie K.
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Constance Kuriyama

External


Since: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 671



(Msg. 30) Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Grading The Chaplin Features... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

James Neibaur (jneibaur@wi.rr.com) writes:
> Constance Kuriyama 2/18/06 11:54 PM
>
>> Why don't we try grading the 12 Mutuals? That should produce
>> interesting results.
>
> ok
>
> all A's
>
> JN
>

That's the quickest solution, but traditionally some of them are
ranked higher than others. _Easy Street_ is typically regarded as
better than _The Fireman_, for example, though I'm not sure why.
I'd like to know how people justify their preferences--if they
have any. And to test whether you do, when you want to watch
a few Mutuals, which ones do you tend to choose? Or when you
think of the Mutuals, which ones do you remember first or most
fondly?

Connie K.
 >> Stay informed about: Grading The Chaplin Features... 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Movie Forums (Home) -> Charlie Chaplin All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 2 of 4

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]