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Fred Salles

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Since: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:25 pm
Post subject: HDX900 continues
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)

Hello,
again with my syncing stories with the HDX900.
-i do not have internet acces where we are shooting-

We found out the reason for the major shift (few seconds!):
the dop is changing the user bit for each new tape (date and tape number).
there is a subtle manipulation trick:
1- switch from TC to USERBIT
2- switch from FREE-RUN to SET
3- do the changing of user bit
4- switch back from SET to FREE-RUN
5- THEN switch back fom USERBIT to TC

If by mistake you do 5 before 4 then the generator gets confused and you
can get few seconds drift !!
In the heat of the shoot that can happen, espescially if you don't know
about it.

Something else: the few frames delay that was mentionned previously (due
to camera hd processing before recording) is also happening to me in
REC-RUN !!! We did try the rec-run TC from camera to 744T ext tc-auto rec
setting. It is highly surprising but there is 4 frames and a half delay !!
(2 in free run...)
THere is a probability that something is wrong with our Final cut pro, as
none of us is editor, and we do the transfer and sync on location.

A last trick with the HDX900: the 12v DC out hirose plug is using pin 2
and 3 for remote triggering of record and a tally. So if you use the vdb
cable for audio limited receiver powering , beware that these pins are not
linked to either 1 or 4 !!

Fred

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Philip Perkins

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Since: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 757



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:25 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mar 28, 5:25 am, fredoutofmars.antis....RemoveThis@yahoo.fr (Fred Salles)
wrote:
> Hello,
> again with my syncing stories with the HDX900.
> -i do not have internet acces where we are shooting-
>
> We found out the reason for the major shift (few seconds!):
> the dop is changing the user bit for each new tape (date and tape number).
> there is a subtle manipulation trick:
> 1- switch from TC to USERBIT
> 2- switch from FREE-RUN to SET
> 3- do the changing of user bit
> 4- switch back from SET to FREE-RUN
> 5- THEN switch back fom USERBIT to TC
>
> If by mistake you do 5 before 4 then the generator gets confused and you
> can get few seconds drift !!
> In the heat of the shoot that can happen, espescially if you don't know
> about it.
>
> Something else: the few frames delay that was mentionned previously (due
> to camera hd processing before recording) is also happening to me in
> REC-RUN !!! We did try the rec-run TC from camera to 744T ext tc-auto rec
> setting. It is highly surprising but there is 4 frames and a half delay !!
> (2 in free run...)
> THere is a probability that something is wrong with our Final cut pro, as
> none of us is editor, and we do the transfer and sync on location.
>
> A last trick with the HDX900: the 12v DC out hirose plug is using pin 2
> and 3 for remote triggering of record and a tally. So if you use the vdb
> cable for audio limited receiver powering , beware that these pins are not
> linked to either 1 or 4 !!
>
> Fred



The 4 frame delay is not avoidable w/ current Panasonic equipment. It
is due to latency caused by the picture pre-processing done by the
camera before laying the data to tape.

Philip Perkins

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Brent Lestage

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Since: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 11



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:25 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> The 4 frame delay is not avoidable w/ current Panasonic equipment. It
> is due to latency caused by the picture pre-processing done by the
> camera before laying the data to tape.
>
> Philip Perkins

Hi Phil/Fred,

So, based on the above, are we correct in assuming that, once you have
determined how many frames out of sync you are (e.g. - 4f), you simply
enter the 4-frame sync offset and away you go? Or, does FCP not allow
for TC/sync offsets?
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Fred Salles

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Since: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:28 am
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Except that it does not seems that stable to us: we have tapes with 2
frames delay and some with 4 frames, and even 4 and a half (?) in
rec-run...


FredS
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Al McGuire

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Since: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 8



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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is the audio ahead of the video ?

al mcguire
soundguy inc
jacksonville fl

Something else: the few frames delay that was mentionned previously
(due
to camera hd processing before recording) is also happening to me in
REC-RUN !!! We did try the rec-run TC from camera to 744T ext tc-auto
rec
setting. It is highly surprising but there is 4 frames and a half
delay !!
(2 in free run...)
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Fernando

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Since: May 10, 2006
Posts: 140



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Maybe using an electronic slate would help?
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Al McGuire

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Since: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 8



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:31 am
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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hi fred
the camera processing takes time
you could do some experimenting with a time code slate so you can
understand how the panasonic delays accumulate
you could then then dial in that delay / offset to the SD 744t via
the INPUT DELAYS menu selection

the good news is the audio is in sync, the video is late
I don't think you get fired for that

al mcguire
soundguy inc
jacksonville fl


> > is the audio ahead of the video ?
>
> Yes indeed
> for same time code, my audio from 744T is 2 to 4 frames ahead.
> (make sense if it comes from the HD camera processing pic before recording)
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Fernando

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Since: May 10, 2006
Posts: 140



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:49 am
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> you could do some experimenting with a time code slate so you can
> understand how the panasonic delays accumulate

that's what I was suggesting
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Fred Salles

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Since: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:19 am
Post subject: Re: HDX900 continues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Al McGuire wrote:

> is the audio ahead of the video ?

Yes indeed
for same time code, my audio from 744T is 2 to 4 frames ahead.
(make sense if it comes from the HD camera processing pic before recording)
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Al McGuire

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Since: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 8



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:48 pm
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On Apr 3, 7:49 am, "Fernando" <f....DeleteThis@ran.es> wrote:
> > you could do some experimenting with a time code slate so you can
> > understand how the panasonic delays accumulate
>
> that's what I was suggesting

sorry fernando , I didn't quote you

I talked to a DoP friend of mine w/ 2 hdx 900s
he suggested checking the pre-record function of the camera
page 26 of the manual
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/manuals/OM_AJ-HDX900.pdf

al mcguire
soundguy inc
jacksonville fl
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