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Fred Salles

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Since: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:12 pm
Post subject: HDX900 sync again
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)
Hello everybody,

Currently on a documentary shoot with the HDX900 and my 744t, running 25P
pal , 25fps free-run time code. Jamming tc from my 744T to the camera
every 2 hours (at first...).
Production did not allowed us to do some test before shooting...
According to some of the posts I read here and my previous experience with
other cameras this set up shoud have worked fine and i didn't see the need
for another solution like the ambient lockit which seems to be a brain
musher with this camera.

We digitised some footage on our laptop using final cut pro and imported
and syncked my sound.
At first begining of the tape the match is not perfect:
not visible but there is a delay with the sound i sent (wire) from my 744T
as a guide track on the camera during indoor itvs.
THen after 1h30 there is a drift very noticeable. (not turning off the
camera, just changing tapes).
My 744T is new so I am not 100% sure whther it is the time code of the
camera or mine that is not stable. I sure guess it is the camera's.
but it is very surprising anyway.

What could be the problem ?

Thanks
Fred
ps:I now send my tc on an audio track as a safety but it takes one of my 2
RMS2020....

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Philip Perkins

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Since: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 757



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Mar 21, 6:12 am, fredoutofmars.antis....RemoveThis@yahoo.fr (Fred Salles)
wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> Currently on a documentary shoot with the HDX900 and my 744t, running 25P
> pal , 25fps free-run time code. Jamming tc from my 744T to the camera
> every 2 hours (at first...).
> Production did not allowed us to do some test before shooting...
> According to some of the posts I read here and my previous experience with
> other cameras this set up shoud have worked fine and i didn't see the need
> for another solution like the ambient lockit which seems to be a brain
> musher with this camera.
>
> We digitised some footage on our laptop using final cut pro and imported
> and syncked my sound.
> At first begining of the tape the match is not perfect:
> not visible but there is a delay with the sound i sent (wire) from my 744T
> as a guide track on the camera during indoor itvs.
> THen after 1h30 there is a drift very noticeable. (not turning off the
> camera, just changing tapes).
> My 744T is new so I am not 100% sure whther it is the time code of the
> camera or mine that is not stable. I sure guess it is the camera's.
> but it is very surprising anyway.
>
> What could be the problem ?
>
> Thanks
> Fred
> ps:I now send my tc on an audio track as a safety but it takes one of my 2
> RMS2020....


A couple of ideas: My experience doing double system sound with the
Panasonic cameras of this type was that for a given TC address the
camera pix and osund was about 4 frames later (delayed) from my audio
of that TC address, with sound taking TC from the cameras (@ 29.97
fps). This turned out to be the pre-record processing latency of the
camera (ho wlong it takes the camera electronics to process pix+sound
so they can be recorded) and is not changeable. We had to build in a
4 frame retard of all my audio vs. its timestamp in order to post
sync. The drift could be the result of forgetting to rejam to the
camera after a battery change--the camera TC drifts very fast while
the battery is off it. I gave up on jam syncing and now use a
wireless link for TC between me and camera, and that has generally
worked very well.

Philip Perkins

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cmassey

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Since: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 33



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In that wireless link Phillip, is that from you to camera, or the
other way around? And not into one of the audio tracks, but TC out of
your HD recorder to the TC in the HDX900???

just wonderin???

cleve
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blestage

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Since: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 84



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
I agree with Phil that, in the the case of single camera video
production -- using double-system sound either as primary or backup --
that you go the hardwired or wireless TC route rather than using FREE
RUN TC. I prefer Black Box Video's small onboard transmitter and tiny
receiver, only I generally use REC RUN timecode generated from the
CAMERA (rather than from recorder to camera deck) auto-triggering the
SD744T to record REC RUN. This way, you have matching code with no
breaks.
--
Brent Lestage
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Philip Perkins

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Since: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 757



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Mar 21, 7:44 am, "cmassey" <c....RemoveThis@dallassound.tv> wrote:
> In that wireless link Phillip, is that from you to camera, or the
> other way around? And not into one of the audio tracks, but TC out of
> your HD recorder to the TC in the HDX900???
>
> just wonderin???
>
> cleve

It is from the camera TC output to me, and I clock the recorder from
that TC. Generally editorial is only interested in the camera TC,
however drifty and flaky it is, and in record run mode. Both the
recorders I use (SD and Tascam) can take in external TC, clock
themselves to it and trigger record and stop to ascending and paused
TC coming from camera. I've gone with this moethod because it A:
works and B: avoids all the tedious rejamming and worrying about TC
drift in the camera. Good notes w/ TC starts helps editorial top be
able to find and use the files via their timestamps.

Philip Perkins
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Philip Perkins

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Since: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 757



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Mar 21, 9:54 am, "blestage" <m... RemoveThis @brentlestagesound.com> wrote:
> I agree with Phil that, in the the case of single camera video
> production -- using double-system sound either as primary or backup --
> that you go the hardwired or wireless TC route rather than using FREE
> RUN TC. I prefer Black Box Video's small onboard transmitter and tiny
> receiver, only I generally use REC RUN timecode generated from the
> CAMERA (rather than from recorder to camera deck) auto-triggering the
> SD744T to record REC RUN. This way, you have matching code with no
> breaks.
> --
> Brent Lestage


What level output is that BB receiver? What freq does it operate on?

Philip Perkins
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blestage

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Since: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 84



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
> What level output is that BB receiver? What freq does it operate on?
>
> Philip Perkins

Philip,

Output level is internally adjustable 0 - 4.5 V. Operating frequency
is 418 MHz and I believe there is also a 433 MHz model. Here is the
link: http://www.blackboxvideo.com/time_code.htm

Best,
Brent
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Charles Tomaras

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Since: Dec 14, 2003
Posts: 1652



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"blestage" <mix.RemoveThis@brentlestagesound.com> wrote in message
news:1174530941.250243.173960@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> What level output is that BB receiver? What freq does it operate on?
>>
>> Philip Perkins
>
> Philip,
>
> Output level is internally adjustable 0 - 4.5 V. Operating frequency
> is 418 MHz and I believe there is also a 433 MHz model. Here is the
> link: http://www.blackboxvideo.com/time_code.htm
>
> Best,
> Brent

What is the RF output power on these. Is it just me or do others find the
black box site extremely confusing and difficult to understand?
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cmassey

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Since: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 33



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: HDX900 sync again [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Click the TECHNICAL line, you will find specs and instructions for all
the products!!!

I only looked a the mini TC transmitter, it is 10mw output...it's big
brother 250mw!

cleve
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