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Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 389
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:13 am
Post subject: Harold Lloyd
Archived from groups: alt>movies>silent (more info?)
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I went to the double-bill at the Castro today, Welcome Danger and Why Worry.
My report:
Welcome Danger is an interesting film from a historical point of view, but
the worst silent Lloyd feature I've ever seen. I suppose everyone in this
group knows that it's either Lloyd's first talkie or last silent, depending
on what version you see. The Castro showed the recently rediscovered silent
version, with live organ accompaniment by Warren Lubich. The movie has some
wonderfully funny moments (hey, it is Harold Lloyd), but a lot of slow
things, as well. And during the first part of the movie, Lloyd's character
is a real jerk--hardly the likeable character who carries the other movies.
The fact that it's longer than most of his features doesn't help. Good
music, though.
It's been about 20 years since I've seen Why Worry, and I'd forgotten just
how funny it is. I now regret that I didn't put a "Recommended" star by it
on my web site. It's not as involving as a story as The Freshman or Kid
Brother, but it is extremely funny. The Castro didn't provide live music,
and the recorded score was a major disappointment. Actually, I don't think
they recorded anything for it. It appeared to be an edited collection of old
music recordings, including songs with (occasionally distracting) lyrics.
The music generally matched the general mood of the scene, but only
occasionally the action.
I hope this isn't the score for the DVD. I saw Kid Brother with a recorded
score at the PFA earlier this summer, and the score was terrific--a real,
orchestra score for the movie, well-recorded. Too bad they did just a cheap
job on Why Worry.
Lincoln |
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Since: Aug 21, 2005
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 05:13:51 GMT, "Lincoln Spector"
<Notreally.TakeThisOut@myemailaddress.com> wrote:
>It's been about 20 years since I've seen Why Worry, and I'd forgotten just
>how funny it is. I now regret that I didn't put a "Recommended" star by it
>on my web site. It's not as involving as a story as The Freshman or Kid
>Brother, but it is extremely funny. The Castro didn't provide live music,
>and the recorded score was a major disappointment. Actually, I don't think
>they recorded anything for it. It appeared to be an edited collection of old
>music recordings, including songs with (occasionally distracting) lyrics.
>The music generally matched the general mood of the scene, but only
>occasionally the action.
>
>I hope this isn't the score for the DVD. I saw Kid Brother with a recorded
>score at the PFA earlier this summer, and the score was terrific--a real,
>orchestra score for the movie, well-recorded. Too bad they did just a cheap
>job on Why Worry.
>
>Lincoln
>
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who was disappointed with the music
for Why Worry. It completely ruined the movie for me! Not only was
the music usually inappropriate (Yma Sumac? Who thought THAT was a
good idea?), but as you mentioned, the vocals were very distracting.
I taped it when it was on Turner Classic Movies last year, and that
version had the excellent Robert Israel score. I wonder why that
score (or any other) wasn't used in the screening.
I've seen all of the Lloyd films at this festival so far and this was
the only disappointment. Most had recorded accompaniment, but Welcome
Danger and The Freshman had wonderful live accompaniment on the
Castro's Wurlitzer. I'm pretty nervous about the rest of the
festival, though...if any more films use this type of horrible music,
I'd rather not even bother going. Maybe I can tape some Robert Israel
scores and load them onto my mp3 player just in case!
-BenderSF |
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Since: Dec 22, 2004
Posts: 100
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:19 am
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I would love to see both of these films on the big screen. The only
Lloyd film I've been able to see with an audience was "Speedy",
accompanied by the Alloy Orchestra, which was wonderful.
I haven't seen the silent version of "Welcome Danger" yet, but it
sounds like it suffers from the same problems as the sound version,
long running time and an unlikeable role for Lloyd.
I finally saw "Why Worry?" for the first time recently and was
completely blown away by it. This was easily one of the funniest films
I've seen, and I can't believe this hasn't been shown more often
recently.
As far as poor musical accompaniment ruining a silent film, I once
attended a screening of "The Last Laugh" that was supposed to feature
live music, but the pianist had to cancel at the last minute so they
ran the film with the optical soundtrack that had a score that sounded
like it had been recorded sometime during the 1960s, but featured the
most inappropriate music for the story. It wasn't even a bad score in
itself, just inappropriate for the mood of the film. The main theme was
sort of a circus theme and the music never seemed to take the film
seriously. But watching "Speedy" with the live music of the Alloy
really made me a fan of their work, despite all the criticism they get
from some viewers.
I'm hoping to get a chance to see more Harold Lloyd with an audience in
the future. It's definitely the best way to see them.
Matt >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Since: Oct 17, 2005
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:52 am
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I saw WHY WORRY at the Brattle here in Cambridge, and also was amazed
at how bad the music was. Why did this one have such bad music (when
most of the other Lloyd films have had such professional scores)?
Money. From what I understand Sue Lloyd spent a fortune over the last
few years getting excellent music for the films. So much, I have been
told by one source, that she will never recoup her investiment.
Alloy spoke to her repeatedly about the Lloyd Estate using our score
for SPEEDY, but we could never come to terms. Sue wanted us to sell
her all the rights to the music. We were very reluctant, offering to
license the music instead.
By the time Why Worry was being prepared for distribution, I think the
Lloyd Estate had spent all they could justify, and perhaps more.
Ken Winokur >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 389
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"BenderSF" <BenderSF RemoveThis @PE.com> wrote in message
news:0apig11qgj0kgkajjt9ac5pk1ufpmidqcg@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 05:13:51 GMT, "Lincoln Spector"
> <Notreally RemoveThis @myemailaddress.com> wrote:
>
>>It's been about 20 years since I've seen Why Worry, and I'd forgotten just
>>how funny it is. I now regret that I didn't put a "Recommended" star by it
>>on my web site. It's not as involving as a story as The Freshman or Kid
>>Brother, but it is extremely funny. The Castro didn't provide live music,
>>and the recorded score was a major disappointment. Actually, I don't think
>>they recorded anything for it. It appeared to be an edited collection of
>>old
>>music recordings, including songs with (occasionally distracting) lyrics.
>>The music generally matched the general mood of the scene, but only
>>occasionally the action.
>>
>>I hope this isn't the score for the DVD. I saw Kid Brother with a recorded
>>score at the PFA earlier this summer, and the score was terrific--a real,
>>orchestra score for the movie, well-recorded. Too bad they did just a
>>cheap
>>job on Why Worry.
>>
>>Lincoln
>>
>
> Glad to know I wasn't the only one who was disappointed with the music
> for Why Worry. It completely ruined the movie for me! Not only was
> the music usually inappropriate (Yma Sumac? Who thought THAT was a
> good idea?), but as you mentioned, the vocals were very distracting.
>
> I taped it when it was on Turner Classic Movies last year, and that
> version had the excellent Robert Israel score. I wonder why that
> score (or any other) wasn't used in the screening.
>
> I've seen all of the Lloyd films at this festival so far and this was
> the only disappointment. Most had recorded accompaniment, but Welcome
> Danger and The Freshman had wonderful live accompaniment on the
> Castro's Wurlitzer. I'm pretty nervous about the rest of the
> festival, though...if any more films use this type of horrible music,
> I'd rather not even bother going. Maybe I can tape some Robert Israel
> scores and load them onto my mp3 player just in case!
I've been thinking about it and I've got a theory--an optimistic one. Maybe
they did record a good score for the video release (perhaps the Israel one),
but the film wasn't transferred at 24fps. Projecting it on modern equipment,
with a soundtrack, means locking it in at 24fps. They therefore had to come
up with another soundtrack quickly and cheaply for the 35mm prints. What I
heard yesterday definitely qualifies as quickly and cheaply.
Lincoln >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Posts: 31
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Sep 13, 2003
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <CJmOe.145$sV7.51@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
Lincoln Spector <Notreally DeleteThis @myemailaddress.com> wrote:
>I've been thinking about it and I've got a theory--an optimistic one. Maybe
>they did record a good score for the video release (perhaps the Israel one),
>but the film wasn't transferred at 24fps. Projecting it on modern equipment,
>with a soundtrack, means locking it in at 24fps. They therefore had to come
>up with another soundtrack quickly and cheaply for the 35mm prints. What I
>heard yesterday definitely qualifies as quickly and cheaply.
>
>Lincoln
I talked to one of the people at The Castro about the score after the
film. They said that they were supposed to get prints with scores for
all of the films but that only half of the prints they got had scores.
They found out too late to get accompanists for all of the silents,
though they did for most of them. The "score" for Why Worry? was
played off CD. (I assumed someone put together a needle drop score,
but it could have simply been one CD.) It certainly threw away the
film, one of the funniest I have seen live with a good score but not
with that distracting score. I did like the score played on TCM too
and would have been happy to see it with that score.
Incidentally, the PFA also had (at least) one short arrive without
the expected score, though they had a pianist for it. Clearly there
is some problem with Sony's handling of the Lloyd films.
- Derek B. >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Since: Aug 21, 2005
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:41:06 +0000 (UTC), derekb.RemoveThis@Stanford.EDU (Derek
Boothroyd) wrote:
>I talked to one of the people at The Castro about the score after the
>film. They said that they were supposed to get prints with scores for
>all of the films but that only half of the prints they got had scores.
>They found out too late to get accompanists for all of the silents,
>though they did for most of them. The "score" for Why Worry? was
>played off CD. (I assumed someone put together a needle drop score,
>but it could have simply been one CD.)
> - Derek B.
Thanks for the info. It's a pity that happened, but I'm glad to know
that it was a mistake. I think I'll try phoning the theatre before I
try going to any more, though.
- BenderSF >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Since: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: 60
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I spoke to the Castro myself and confirmed they did a needle-drop of
Hal Roach music (so it couldn't have been THAT inappropriate). We have
two prints: one silent, one with the music track. Obviously, the Castro
got the wrong one and didn't check it until it was too late to send the
replacement. Both prints have now been correctly labeled so this will
not happen again. My apologies to all who had to see it under less than
optimal conditions. But, hey, wasn't the print nice?
Mike S. >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Ken Winokur wrote:
> I saw WHY WORRY at the Brattle here in Cambridge, and also was amazed
> at how bad the music was. Why did this one have such bad music (when
> most of the other Lloyd films have had such professional scores)?
> Money. From what I understand Sue Lloyd spent a fortune over the last
> few years getting excellent music for the films. So much, I have been
> told by one source, that she will never recoup her investiment.
I don't know what the score was you heard, but the broadcast version
has a nice orchestral score by Robert Israel. I think this is what the
new prints are going around with.
Sue Lloyd didn't loose a dime on the scores. They were all paid for
when TCM bought the rights to air the films.
J. Theakston >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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>Sue Lloyd didn't loose a dime on the scores. They were all paid for
when TCM bought the rights to air the films.
I have no idea if that's true or not but it's hardly a shame if some of
Grand-dad's money went to carrying on his legacy in this way. I admire
her for using it for that purpose, rather than others, to be sure. >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Since: Oct 17, 2005
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:45 am
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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My Apologies. The film I was thinking of was Welcome Danger. That one
had a cut and paste, soundtrack. It didn't seem like anyone had put
too much work into it.
I've watched too many of these Harold Lloyd films of late and they are
all swimming around my head.
Ken Winokur >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 389
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"J. Theakston" <tomservorobot.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124929936.370308.74090@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ken Winokur wrote:
>> I saw WHY WORRY at the Brattle here in Cambridge, and also was amazed
>> at how bad the music was. Why did this one have such bad music (when
>> most of the other Lloyd films have had such professional scores)?
>> Money. From what I understand Sue Lloyd spent a fortune over the last
>> few years getting excellent music for the films. So much, I have been
>> told by one source, that she will never recoup her investiment.
>
> I don't know what the score was you heard, but the broadcast version
> has a nice orchestral score by Robert Israel. I think this is what the
> new prints are going around with.
The 35mm print of Why Worry I saw had a horrible, pasted-together score. I
gather that Israel's score was missing from the print.
Lincoln >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <1124925126.407663.264070.RemoveThis@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<michael_schlesinger.RemoveThis@spe.sony.com> wrote:
>I spoke to the Castro myself and confirmed they did a needle-drop of
>Hal Roach music (so it couldn't have been THAT inappropriate). We have
>two prints: one silent, one with the music track. Obviously, the Castro
>got the wrong one and didn't check it until it was too late to send the
>replacement. Both prints have now been correctly labeled so this will
>not happen again. My apologies to all who had to see it under less than
>optimal conditions. But, hey, wasn't the print nice?
>
>Mike S.
Thanks for checking up on this. I may have been a little harsh in
my earlier post. As you say, the print was nice and I did enjoy
the film, just not as much as I would have otherwise. But the
score The Castro used, though it did include the Hal Roach music,
also used songs (with vocals) including The Carioca (from Flying
Down to Rio -- It's not a fox-trot or a polka) and some songs
with Spanish language lyrics. Those were the parts that were
particularly distracting.
- Derek B. >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Harold Lloyd [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Derek Boothroyd filted:
>
>...But the
>score The Castro used, though it did include the Hal Roach music,
>also used songs (with vocals) including The Carioca (from Flying
>Down to Rio -- It's not a fox-trot or a polka) and some songs
>with Spanish language lyrics. Those were the parts that were
>particularly distracting.
Count yourself lucky they didn't use the version by Jonathan and Darlene
Edwards....r >> Stay informed about: Harold Lloyd |
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