The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D..

"Donald4564" <dbinks RemoveThis @aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:1191575908.026972.67770@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>> All in all, a VITAPHONICS dream set...just curious about the minor
>> soundtrack "changes" on the JAZZ SINGER itself. All-in-all, GO FOR
>> IT!!!
>
> It has always amazed me that such a mawkish film as this made the
> talking picture a success. I daresay without Al Jolson in it we would
> probably still be watching silent pictures.

Remember, it was a successful stage play, so there was an audience out
there. Sentimental movies in general were a big factor in the market, which
gets forgotten because most aren't considered "Classics". In particular
there were a lot of Jewish-themed sentimental silent movies, HIS PEOPLE
being a good example, and this continued well into the talkie era with films
like SYMPHONY OF SIX MILLION. You can't go wrong with a good weeper- STELLA
DALLAS has been made at least three times.

Eric Stott
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

On Oct 5, 11:28 am, "Vitaphone" <vitaph... RemoveThis @optonline.net> wrote:
> Gerbonzo:
>
> While some of what you report sounds like a possible glitch, I guess we have
> to keep in mind that the soundtrack on this edition corrects a good many
> problems inherent in the audio transfer that, as you say, "we all remember."
> It ought to be easy to shake off fond recollection if we keep in mind that
> much of what we remember was wrong. ;)
>
> Still, they did indeed have a long, long time to get this release right ---
> and things like misidentification of footage from ROGUE SONG as being from
> GD OF BWAY is just plain sloppy as it is inexplicable, given WHV's usual
> attention to detail.
>
> That said, I welcome as many early sound DVDs as Warner cares to release,
> and they can be as glitch-laden, sloppy and inexplicable as they like!
> (Besides, the GD OF BWAY flub is reason enough to warrant a second set,
> that'll include "Tulips" AND the recently restored additional Tech footage
> from this film and ON WITH THE SHOW --- all 1.3 minutes of it.)
>
> I can dream, can't I? ;)

I'm confused. I thought Warners had announced that it *was* including
"Tulips," the final reel *and* the recently discovered fragment(s)
from GDoB on this set. Is this not the case or do we suspect/fear that
corners have been cut and/or some of the extras were inexplicbly left
behind?

And Jeff, have you heard the original discs for TEH JAZZ SINGER? Can
you confirm that what we know *is* different aurally from what was
originally screened?

I have very very very high hopes for this set. I just really hope they
don't do anything stuipd/careless, get everything right on it, it
sells well and THEN Warners gets the idea of producing a follow-up set
(maybe a photo re-creation with soundtrack of GDoB and/or MY MAN)

BTW, what's the word on the SHOW BOAT anniversary set?
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

Gerbonzo:

While some of what you report sounds like a possible glitch, I guess we have
to keep in mind that the soundtrack on this edition corrects a good many
problems inherent in the audio transfer that, as you say, "we all remember."
It ought to be easy to shake off fond recollection if we keep in mind that
much of what we remember was wrong. ;)

Still, they did indeed have a long, long time to get this release right ---
and things like misidentification of footage from ROGUE SONG as being from
GD OF BWAY is just plain sloppy as it is inexplicable, given WHV's usual
attention to detail.

That said, I welcome as many early sound DVDs as Warner cares to release,
and they can be as glitch-laden, sloppy and inexplicable as they like!
(Besides, the GD OF BWAY flub is reason enough to warrant a second set,
that'll include "Tulips" AND the recently restored additional Tech footage
from this film and ON WITH THE SHOW --- all 1.3 minutes of it.)

I can dream, can't I? ;)

Jeff




"gerbonzo" <gerbino63.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1191557381.784860.23890@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I just saw an advance copy of the soon to be released Warner Home
> Video DVD of The Jazz Singer. Sounds great and looks stunning!
> However, some of the sound track during the "silent" portion of the
> film does not match up according to the version that has been around
> since the early 1930s optical transfer that we have seen since.
>
> During the scene where JACK ROBIN is at the train station writing a
> letter to MARY, the sound track pauses while the letter insert is
> shown and seems to be out of sync throughout the scene where he is
> told that he is going to NEW YORK to appear in a big Broadway review.
> The train scene fades out and we see the title card that says "THE
> CANTOR'S SIXTIETH BIRTHDAY" and 'GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROADWAY is still
> playing on the soundtrack. During the scene where JACK/JAKIE is
> reunited with his mother, the music cues are not quite where they used
> to be.
>
> Then when there was the reel change for the synchronous sound section
> for the "BLUE SKIES" sequence-where we used to have dead sound while
> Jolson led his mother to the piano to start singing-the music seems to
> "blend" into Bert Fiske's piano intro to the song. Not quite the same
> as we remember.
>
> Same type of thing seems to happen before the big finale scene where
> Jolson sings "MAMMY". The film looks sharp in 95% of the transfer and
> sound is the clearest I have heard outside of the TURNER/RHINO Jolson
> disc of 11 years ago.
>
> Also in the glorious BONUS FEATURE section, the PRESS PREVIEW set I
> viewed claims to have TWO scenes from GOLD DIGGERS OF BROADWAY. What
> was on this disc was the last reel of the film that was released in
> the first DAWN OF SOUND laser disc from 1991 and where this disc said
> that the second excerpt was the TIP TOE THRU THE TULIPS scene was
> actually the ballet sequence from THE ROGUE SONG. I hope that was just
> a flub on the PRESS PACKAGE that WHM sent out and will be corrected
> for the formal release.
>
> The 3 and half hours of shorts are just wonderful! The SHAW & LEE
> short is worth the price of the set alone!!! We were laughing our
> bottoms off over that one.
>
> All in all, a VITAPHONICS dream set...just curious about the minor
> soundtrack "changes" on the JAZZ SINGER itself. All-in-all, GO FOR
> IT!!!
>
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

On Oct 5, 3:04 pm, "Vitaphone" <vitaph... DeleteThis @optonline.net> wrote:


> 2) Yes, it was initially hoped that the set would include both the "Tulips"
> and "Finale" reel from GD OF BWAY, as well as the newly discovered (by our
> very own Darren!) Tech fragment from this film and one from ON WITH THE
> SHOW, but these two latter clips (amounting to just a couple of minutes,
> literally) were excluded for unknown reasons.

Grrrrr!

Have these *new* excepts ever played anywhere?

> 3) We'll never know precisely what JAZZ SINGER sounded like to the audiences
> who first attended it --- how can we, short of replicating the acoustics and
> technical aspects of the theaters it appeared in? But, we DO know that the
> Vitaphone disc system offered incredibly rich, full audio, none of which was
> apparent in the borderline lousy transfer of JAZZ SINGER we've had with us
> these many years. "Noise" filtering on the DVD releases of 42ND ST and GD
> OF 1933 did (in my opinion) far more damage than good, but that was a while
> back now --- so I'm eager to hear how JAZZ SINGER fared. Would be
> criminal to have secured a clean and complete set of discs for JAZZ SINGER
> and then have them filtered and compressed and "cleaned" to a point where
> the soundtrack ends up being not much better than the one it replaced.

I guess you answered my question: Warners has in their posession a
pristine set of original discs. Assuming they didn't play with them
too much, we will hear a closer proximation to what audiences heard in
1927 than what we are used to.

> 5) If a wonderful job was done re-creating LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT, a
> spectacular job could be done re-creating GD OF BWAY, given the amount of
> film, photograph, print and audio material that survives for this title.

I know the audio also survives for the trailers for both MY MAN and
GDoB. Do any film elements from these trailers survive and do they
contain anything that looks like it may have been lifted from the
films?

> All it needs is someone in position to say "let's do it." This, of course,
> would be the key item on a DVD boxed set that would include THE SINGING
> FOOL,

Now let's not get carried away! Well, at least you didn't suggest SAY
IT WITH SONGS!

> SHOW OF SHOWS, UNDER A TEXAS MOON, MAMMY! and a whole bunch of short

Just a Technicolor release of MAMMY! would be anchor enough for a
second set for me!
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

"Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.connelly.RemoveThis@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:1191607476.451224.300960@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm confused. I thought Warners had announced that it *was* including
> "Tulips," the final reel *and* the recently discovered fragment(s)
> from GDoB on this set. Is this not the case or do we suspect/fear that
> corners have been cut and/or some of the extras were inexplicbly left
> behind?
>
> And Jeff, have you heard the original discs for TEH JAZZ SINGER? Can
> you confirm that what we know *is* different aurally from what was
> originally screened?
>
> I have very very very high hopes for this set. I just really hope they
> don't do anything stuipd/careless, get everything right on it, it
> sells well and THEN Warners gets the idea of producing a follow-up set
> (maybe a photo re-creation with soundtrack of GDoB and/or MY MAN)
>
> BTW, what's the word on the SHOW BOAT anniversary set?
>

1) Have not seen nor heard the JAZZ SINGER set yet, as my Amazon pre-order
is set to hit when everyone else's does! So, was merely offering thoughts
based on Gerbonzo's observations.

2) Yes, it was initially hoped that the set would include both the "Tulips"
and "Finale" reel from GD OF BWAY, as well as the newly discovered (by our
very own Darren!) Tech fragment from this film and one from ON WITH THE
SHOW, but these two latter clips (amounting to just a couple of minutes,
literally) were excluded for unknown reasons.

3) We'll never know precisely what JAZZ SINGER sounded like to the audiences
who first attended it --- how can we, short of replicating the acoustics and
technical aspects of the theaters it appeared in? But, we DO know that the
Vitaphone disc system offered incredibly rich, full audio, none of which was
apparent in the borderline lousy transfer of JAZZ SINGER we've had with us
these many years. "Noise" filtering on the DVD releases of 42ND ST and GD
OF 1933 did (in my opinion) far more damage than good, but that was a while
back now --- so I'm eager to hear how JAZZ SINGER fared. Would be
criminal to have secured a clean and complete set of discs for JAZZ SINGER
and then have them filtered and compressed and "cleaned" to a point where
the soundtrack ends up being not much better than the one it replaced.

4) Haven't heard a thing about SHOW BOAT beyond the initial announcement,
which indicated that at least two more reels of the 1929 version will now
have the original sound, as opposed to either nothing or looping of existing
audio material to cover for the missing elements.

5) If a wonderful job was done re-creating LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT, a
spectacular job could be done re-creating GD OF BWAY, given the amount of
film, photograph, print and audio material that survives for this title.
All it needs is someone in position to say "let's do it." This, of course,
would be the key item on a DVD boxed set that would include THE SINGING
FOOL, SHOW OF SHOWS, UNDER A TEXAS MOON, MAMMY! and a whole bunch of short
subjects. ;)

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

The DVDs I saw earlier this week were a press preview copy that was
sent to one of my good friends who is a columnist. He invited me over
to view it and YES, I was blown away by the restoration job. An
overture and exit music round out the feature. Most of the film ( I
would say 90 - 95%) looks like it was struck from really good 35mm
stock. There are a few shots and angles that are not in the previous
video version. For instance-there was some different shot of the
WINTER GARDEN marquee at night just before Jolson final triumphant
singing of MAMMY and when they switch to the inside of the theatre,
there is a long shot of Jolson bounding out onto the stage to sing
Mammy that is not in the version that we are so used to. The contrast
level during the Mammy number is great visually. In all previous
releases, Jolson looks like the famous LEVY caricature: white shirt-
white gloves white lips and eyeballs and nothing else. Now you see
greater detail in his stage-makeup. And the white of his shirt does
"BLOOM" as it did in the past.

As for the sound, it sounds cleaner, but I did not have much of a
chance to study it as my friend had it playing through just his small
television speakers. Also, as I stated before -during the scenes where
Jolson finds out that he is going back to NEW YORK and his reunion
with his mother leading up to BLUE SKIES, the music score seems
slightly behind the image, thus causing a quick audio fade out of the
underscoring just as Jolson starts to play BLUE SKIES. I made my
friend back up the DVD just to check this again. In the film as Jolson
tells his mother that he wants to sing one of his new numbers for her,
he leads her off screen right. The next shot must have been the reel
change and in the past as Momma sits in the chair and Jolson sits at
the piano, there was no scoring. Is it nit-picking? Eh...The music
does an unatural fade VERY QUICKLY. Some purists will cringe. But,
don't get me wrong...you will want this set!!! BUY IT!
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

"Donald4564" <dbinks.DeleteThis@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:1191575908.026972.67770@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>> All in all, a VITAPHONICS dream set...just curious about the minor
>> soundtrack "changes" on the JAZZ SINGER itself. All-in-all, GO FOR
>> IT!!!
>
> It has always amazed me that such a mawkish film as this made the
> talking picture a success. I daresay without Al Jolson in it we would
> probably still be watching silent pictures.
>
> I look forward instead to seeing the early Vitaphoned shorts.
>
> Regards
> Donald Binks
>

Interesting. I have pretty much a completely opposite response to "The Jazz
Singer". To me, it's one of the most smashingly entertaining films ever
made, with great songs performed with amazing energy by Jolson, an
unapologetically sentimental plot, and a fun supporting cast.

There's no doubt, though, that Jolson is the best thing about the film. When
he performs any of the numbers, but especially "Mammy", it's as if he's
practically climbing through that screen-his presence is still so strong and
energetic 80 years later.
--
Matt Barry
View my films at: www.youtube.com/comedyfilm
http://mbarry84.tripod.com
http://filmreel.blogspot.com
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On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:04:50 -0700, gerbonzo <gerbino63 RemoveThis @aol.com>
wrote:

>The DVDs I saw earlier this week were a press preview copy that was
>sent to one of my good friends who is a columnist. He invited me over
>to view it and YES, I was blown away by the restoration job.

I just got back from seeing it at the A.M.P.A.S. screening, a 4K
digital print projected with a 4k projector up onto a huge screen. (4k
is slightly over 4 times the resolution of HD. Though I guess this
was really more like 3k, since it's not widescreen.) It looked
absolutely stunning. With the exception of a few shots, totalling
probably less than 40 seconds in all, it looked brand-new, like it was
shot yesterday. I know that "it looked like it was shot yesterday" is
something that gets thrown around from time to time, but in this case
it really honestly looked that way. Supposedly it was scanned from the
original negative, and if it wasn't, then it was at worst only one
generation away from that. It really did look that good. The closest
I can think off hand is that it looked as pristine as some of the
outtake footage in Unknown Chaplin (you know, stuff from the original
negative-- and a negative that wasn't worn).


The sound was fantastic as well, very clean and bright, very good
range, and was, to me, definitely not too over processed.

The upcoming DVD should really blow people away. And be sure to check
out the Vitaphone short "Baby Rose Marie: The Child Wonder." It's
extraordinary.
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

"Donald4564" <dbinks.TakeThisOut@aapt.net.au> wrote in message
news:1191575908.026972.67770@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>> All in all, a VITAPHONICS dream set...just curious about the minor
>> soundtrack "changes" on the JAZZ SINGER itself. All-in-all, GO FOR
>> IT!!!
>
> It has always amazed me that such a mawkish film as this made the
> talking picture a success. I daresay without Al Jolson in it we would
> probably still be watching silent pictures.
If you're amazed at the Jazz Singer, try watching Lights of New York. Its
importance is arguably as great as The Jazz Singer (no one except Warners
and Fox were really making sound films until LoNY came out), yet its
horrible, MST3K material.

There's a theory that horrible yet successful films are the most
influential. After all, if a really great movie makes a lot of money, it's
probably because it's a really great movie. And "really great movie" isn't a
formula you can reliably repeat. But when a lousy feel brings people in in
droves, there must be formula that can be repeated.

Other examples include Bwana Devil, This is Cinerama, and Friday 13th.

Lincoln
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On Oct 6, 4:33 pm, Fred <fw... RemoveThis @hotmailx.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:04:50 -0700, gerbonzo <gerbin... RemoveThis @aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The DVDs I saw earlier this week were a press preview copy that was
> >sent to one of my good friends who is a columnist. He invited me over
> >to view it and YES, I was blown away by the restoration job.
>
> I just got back from seeing it at the A.M.P.A.S. screening, a 4K
> digital print projected with a 4k projector up onto a huge screen. (4k
> is slightly over 4 times the resolution of HD. Though I guess this
> was really more like 3k, since it's not widescreen.) It looked
> absolutely stunning. With the exception of a few shots, totalling
> probably less than 40 seconds in all, it looked brand-new, like it was
> shot yesterday. I know that "it looked like it was shot yesterday" is
> something that gets thrown around from time to time, but in this case
> it really honestly looked that way. Supposedly it was scanned from the
> original negative, and if it wasn't, then it was at worst only one
> generation away from that. It really did look that good. The closest
> I can think off hand is that it looked as pristine as some of the
> outtake footage in Unknown Chaplin (you know, stuff from the original
> negative-- and a negative that wasn't worn).
>
> The sound was fantastic as well, very clean and bright, very good
> range, and was, to me, definitely not too over processed.
>
> The upcoming DVD should really blow people away. And be sure to check
> out the Vitaphone short "Baby Rose Marie: The Child Wonder." It's
> extraordinary.

FRED I read a review, of BABY ROSE MARIE THE CHILD WONDER< dated 23
April 2003, in IMDB and I quote from it" She looked like a little
woman with her Louise Brooks hairstyle",,,,,,,"Rose Marie singed like
an adult and performed like one"......
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:44:02 -0700, sir michael cat
<mccrohan.TakeThisOut@adam.com.au> wrote:

>> The upcoming DVD should really blow people away. And be sure to check
>> out the Vitaphone short "Baby Rose Marie: The Child Wonder." It's
>> extraordinary.
>
>FRED I read a review, of BABY ROSE MARIE THE CHILD WONDER< dated 23
>April 2003, in IMDB and I quote from it" She looked like a little
>woman with her Louise Brooks hairstyle",,,,,,,"Rose Marie singed like
>an adult and performed like one"......

That's fairly accurate. To me she didn't look like an adult though,
even with the Brooks/Colleen Moore hair. Her voice is low, even as a
child, which is what makes her sound older than she was. Very
talented.
 >> Stay informed about: The Jazz Singer (1927) NEW DVD RELEASE: LOOKS GREAT, BUT D.. 

On Oct 8, 1:17 pm, Fred <fw....TakeThisOut@hotmailx.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:44:02 -0700, sir michael cat
>
> <mccro....TakeThisOut@adam.com.au> wrote:
> >> The upcoming DVD should really blow people away. And be sure to check
> >> out the Vitaphone short "Baby Rose Marie: The Child Wonder." It's
> >> extraordinary.
>
> >FRED I read a review, of BABY ROSE MARIE THE CHILD WONDER< dated 23
> >April 2003, in IMDB and I quote from it" She looked like a little
> >woman with her Louise Brooks hairstyle",,,,,,,"Rose Marie singed like
> >an adult and performed like one"......
>
> That's fairly accurate. To me she didn't look like an adult though,
> even with the Brooks/Colleen Moore hair. Her voice is low, even as a
> child, which is what makes her sound older than she was. Very
> talented.

I amy be wrong but didn;'t she grow up to be the Rose Marie in the
television series "The Dick Van Dyke Show"

Regards
Donald BInks
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"Lincoln Spector" <notmyreal RemoveThis @address.com> wrote in message
news:YTfOi.550$LD2.494@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...

> If you're amazed at the Jazz Singer, try watching Lights of New York. Its
> importance is arguably as great as The Jazz Singer (no one except Warners
> and Fox were really making sound films until LoNY came out), yet its
> horrible, MST3K material.

Except (for some reason) Eugene Palette- who makes a smooth transition from
silence to sound. He's remarkably natural, at least compared to the rest of
the cast.

Eric Stott
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