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Charlie Chaplin, Jr.

 
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Candace

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 43



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:11 am
Post subject: Charlie Chaplin, Jr.
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I'm interesting in Charlie Jr.'s relationship with his father after CC
moved to Vevey. According to the younger Chaplin, he visited his
father in 1954 but does not mention any subsequent visits (the book
was written in 1960). Charlie Jr. dies in 1968 apparently of
alcohol-related issues. I was wondering whether he visited his father
in the 60's, or if Chaplin ever gave a public reaction to the death of
his son? I 've read that Syd was the favorite son from Lita and
Charlie took backseat; it would seem from his book that this might
have been true.

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George Shelps

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Since: Jul 10, 2003
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Charlie Chaplin, Jr. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Candace, real Charlie, Jr's bio
of his Dad..."My Father, Charlie
Chaplin." Very worthwhile.









__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner

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Candace

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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:43 pm
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George, I have read Charlie Jr.'s book. This is where I got the info
about him not visiting his dad from 1954-1961. Wondered why that was
so-- estrangement?
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Shush

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Since: Dec 03, 2003
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:09 pm
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ulysses.DeleteThis@mscomm.com (Candace) wrote:

> George, I have read Charlie Jr.'s book. This is where I got the info
> about him not visiting his dad from 1954-1961. Wondered why that was
> so-- estrangement?


I believe they were estranged, though I don't have any hard
evidence of that.

Chaplin was really a fairly terrible father until Paulette Goddard
pushed him into getting involved in his sons' lives. Their conception
was unwanted and he hardly visited them or wrote to them until they
were about old enough to go to school... then he packed them away to
military school.

Reading Charlie Jr.'s book is kind of a sad experience, because he
so obviously loved his father and kept longing to see that love
returned, and as far as I know it never really was.



--Shush--
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Candace

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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:54 am
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I agree, Charlie Jr.'s book is a sad reading experience. He hero
worshipped his father who ignored him until Paulette got involved.
There's also a telling line in May Reeves' book where Charlie
off-handedly shows her a picture of his two little boys (sons he
hadn't seen for years) and merely said, "They look Spanish, don't
they?" Whether he was bitter over Lita or not, he should have spent
time with his own boys. Chaplin's lack of fatherly ability is a sad
indictment. Michael Chaplin seems especially bitter; Eugene also has
given some interviews where you can sense his feeling that Charlie was
not a stellar parent.

Charlie Jr. also says his father only wrote him two letters in his
entire life, and this includes the time the younger Chaplin was
serving in WWII.
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Constance Kuriyama

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Since: Feb 26, 2004
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:56 pm
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ulysses DeleteThis @mscomm.com (Candace) wrote in message news:<922772b5.0410010654.227301b1 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> I agree, Charlie Jr.'s book is a sad reading experience. He hero
> worshipped his father who ignored him until Paulette got involved.
> There's also a telling line in May Reeves' book where Charlie
> off-handedly shows her a picture of his two little boys (sons he
> hadn't seen for years) and merely said, "They look Spanish, don't
> they?"

As I recall, he said a bit more than that. In addition to commenting
on their Spanish looks "not without pride," he said that the oldest
(Charlie Junior) was "pensive and serious," and "resembles me," while
the younger (Sydney) was "very handsome, full of life and creativity."
This is an accurate assessment of the two boys and shows something
well beyond lack of concern. I've always found the next sentence
especially telling: "One day they came to the studio with their nurse
while I was filming. I quickly removed my makeup and the little
moustache so they could see my real face." Indifference? I don't think
so.

There's a hint here that Chaplin saw Sydney as more talented--handsome
and full of creativity--and that's why he appeared to favor him and
made more effort to foster his career.

> Whether he was bitter over Lita or not, he should have spent
> time with his own boys. Chaplin's lack of fatherly ability is a sad
> indictment.

Chaplin had an absentee father himself. How could he have learned to
be a warm,
caring parent? Given the hand he was dealt,I'm surprised he managed as
well as he did, but Paulette certainly helped.

> Michael Chaplin seems especially bitter; Eugene also has
> given some interviews where you can sense his feeling that Charlie was
> not a stellar parent.

Michael sems to have mellowed out in the Schickel biography. He was a
rather
difficult person himself in his youth, and concedes that much of his
friction with his father was his fault.

> Charlie Jr. also says his father only wrote him two letters in his
> entire life, and this includes the time the younger Chaplin was
> serving in WWII.

Chaplin wrote very few letters to anybody.

As for "dumping" his sons in the exclusive Black Fox Academy, so did a
sizable portion of Hollywood notables, including Buster Keaton. Oona's
children were sent to "progressive" schools and other private schools.
Geraldine went to school with one of Nat King Cole's children. You can
get a hint of what Chaplin thought about some of those schools in _A
King in New York_.

I don't find Charlie Jr.'s book particularly sad regarding his
relationship with his father, since this obviously had its positive
side, and I admire his sensitivity and intuitive insight into his dad.
I do think being the son of a celebrity and the child of a failed
marriage were often painful and difficult for him, and that makes the
book sad at times.

Connie K.
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Candace

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 43



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:03 pm
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Returning to my original query, does anyone know if Charlie, Jr.
visited his father in Vevey after 1954, the visit he discusses briefly
in his book? Also, was there any reaction of Charlie to Charlie, Jr.'s
death in 1968?
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Constance Kuriyama

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Since: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 122



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:02 pm
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ulysses.TakeThisOut@mscomm.com (Candace) wrote in message news:<922772b5.0410031703.7dce363a.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
> Returning to my original query, does anyone know if Charlie, Jr.
> visited his father in Vevey after 1954, the visit he discusses briefly
> in his book? Also, was there any reaction of Charlie to Charlie, Jr.'s
> death in 1968?

I don't know about visits after 1954. According to Robinson, Charles
Jr.'s
death in 1968 struck Chaplin hard (p. 620), but I don't know what his
source is.

Chaplin said in his autobiography that he was "very fond" of his two
grown sons. I believe he was, though like many fathers of that time
period, especially egocentric ones, he wasn't very good at showing it.
Charlie Jr.'s picture is included in the autobiography on the same
page as Sydney's.

Connie K.
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Candace

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 43



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:52 am
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IIn the last two days I have nailed down that Charlie, Jr. visited his
father and Oona in Vevey in 1960 and sometime around 1966, prior to
the "CFHK" shooting. There are two photos someone emailed me which
show Charlie Jr. showing Charlie his grandson, circa 1960 and another
photo of them together on the Vevey lawn around 1965-66.
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