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July Fourth Triumph of Will

 
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Lokke Heiss

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Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 160



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:07 am
Post subject: July Fourth Triumph of Will
Archived from groups: alt>movies>silent (more info?)

Did anyone else watch the NBC special fireworks celebration from New
York this Friday?

It was the longest most expensive fireworks display I've ever seen.
But that's not what bothered me. The strange part of the show was the
extreme control on all the images. The matching huge fireworks and
even the smaller fireworks were exactly worked out. The fireworks
were choreographed almost to each explosion and these shots were
matched to everything else, such as the crowds, all waving flags (each
of exact size, given to each member of the crowd) and a booming voice
extolling the virtues of this great country.

It was this exact control over such vast numbers of people and force
that was so creepy. It made me think of New Objectivity and Triumph
of the Will, except that this was all being edited live. Leni had the
benefit of weeks of editing, these folks did it all essentially 'in
camera.'

Granted the word means different things to different people, but to me
this display of power and control was as 'fascist' as any product I've
ever seen from this country.

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Richard Lanham

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Since: Jul 29, 2003
Posts: 12



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: July Fourth Triumph of Will [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <50c2fb1d.0307061007.534ba0f.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>, Lokke Heiss <lokkeheiss.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Did anyone else watch the NBC special fireworks celebration from New
> York this Friday?
>
> It was the longest most expensive fireworks display I've ever seen.
> But that's not what bothered me. The strange part of the show was the
> extreme control on all the images. The matching huge fireworks and
> even the smaller fireworks were exactly worked out. The fireworks
> were choreographed almost to each explosion and these shots were
> matched to everything else, such as the crowds, all waving flags (each
> of exact size, given to each member of the crowd) and a booming voice
> extolling the virtues of this great country.
>
> It was this exact control over such vast numbers of people and force
> that was so creepy. It made me think of New Objectivity and Triumph
> of the Will, except that this was all being edited live. Leni had the
> benefit of weeks of editing, these folks did it all essentially 'in
> camera.'
>
> Granted the word means different things to different people, but to me
> this display of power and control was as 'fascist' as any product I've
> ever seen from this country.

I didn't see that display, but I did just see a documentary on TV about fireworks
in the USA. The fireworks in these shows are set off in time with signals from
a computer. They showed how the fireworks experts would pick different
explosives, with different designs and colors to be set off at each second
of the music being played.

It is choreographed to the music, while with a silent film, the music is
usually timed to the onscreen events.

I didn't hear anything about controlling a crowd's actions/reactions other than
keeping them at a safe distance; and hoping for certain reactions from certain
symbols.

Rick
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history." Hegel

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Kingo Gondo

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Since: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 277



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: July Fourth Triumph of Will [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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You sound like a potential evildoer to me.

And OT, to boot.
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RH

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Since: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:23 am
Post subject: Re: July Fourth Triumph of Will [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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lokkeheiss.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (Lokke Heiss) wrote in message news:<50c2fb1d.0307061007.534ba0f.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
> Did anyone else watch the NBC special fireworks celebration from New
> York this Friday?
>
> It was the longest most expensive fireworks display I've ever seen.
> But that's not what bothered me. The strange part of the show was the
> extreme control on all the images. The matching huge fireworks and
> even the smaller fireworks were exactly worked out. The fireworks
> were choreographed almost to each explosion and these shots were
> matched to everything else, such as the crowds, all waving flags (each
> of exact size, given to each member of the crowd) and a booming voice
> extolling the virtues of this great country.
>
> It was this exact control over such vast numbers of people and force
> that was so creepy. It made me think of New Objectivity and Triumph
> of the Will, except that this was all being edited live. Leni had the
> benefit of weeks of editing, these folks did it all essentially 'in

> camera.'
>
> Granted the word means different things to different people, but to me
> this display of power and control was as 'fascist' as any product I've
> ever seen from this country.

I believe this is the "circuses" part of the "bread and" forumulation.

But the real question here is: did they play Lee Greenwood?
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Lokke Heiss

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Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 160



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:52 am
Post subject: Re: July Fourth Triumph of Will [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> What you saw was a combination of computer-controlled fireworks (even my
> small town has them) effectively synched to music, and a lot of happy
> people enjoying a midsummer holiday built on national pride. Leave it to
> American television to do this TOO effectively for comfort!

Well, I don't mean to suggest that well choreographed fireworks
display equals facism, the connection is from Leni's work, Triumph...
(hence my posting in this newsgroup) so anyone who didn't see the NBC
product is probably not going to get what I mean. And what I saw
probably isn't going to be recorded and broadcast for future
progaganda purposes so that isn't the same either...but what I saw WAS
creepy for several other reasons.
1) the ante placed on what essentially a spontaneous celebration. NBC
put a TON of money on this.
2) I wonder if this will set the bar for future TV presentations. If
it does, then this does sort of send the fireworks display programs
down a Triumph of the Will propanganda road. In other words, control
of the image becomes more important than the image, and we get a
product that looks like the Triumph speech or May Day in Red Square
type of presentation, very unlike prior American product.
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Lincoln Spector

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Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 389



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: July Fourth Triumph of Will [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> > One effect that I'd never seen before were fireworks that would explode
into
> > a particular shape. They did that twice: a heart and a star. I have no
idea
> > how they did it, but it was damn impressive.
> >
> > Lincoln
>
> The individual charges that form the points of light in the shape are tied
to
> threads. When the lifting charge explodes they burn and fly out to the
ends of
> the threads.
Thanks for the explanation.

Lincoln
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Lincoln Spector

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Since: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 389



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: July Fourth Triumph of Will [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> 2) I wonder if this will set the bar for future TV presentations. If
> it does, then this does sort of send the fireworks display programs
> down a Triumph of the Will propanganda road. In other words, control
> of the image becomes more important than the image, and we get a
> product that looks like the Triumph speech or May Day in Red Square
> type of presentation, very unlike prior American product.
Frankly, I find the idea of broadcast fireworks displays bizarre. A July 4
celebration is a communal, live experience. Get outside and watch it for
real, or do something else and avoid the whole thing.

Lincoln
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