KEYSTONE

josemas DeleteThis @juno.com (Joe Moore) wrote in message news:<5e9e2277.0401310429.198d5d8f DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> I've been keeping tabs on this (as part of my overall Sennett
> research), and I've dug up my stats:
>
> These numbers are based on prints in Archives, home collector's prints
> and a couple of titles once offered by Blackhawk that probably are
> held
> in somebody's collection out there.
>
> Keystone-Mutual comedies (1912-15):
> 186 of 421 split reelers, one reelers, 2 reelers & one feature exist
> (most that exist are complete or nearly complete; includes TILLIE'S
> PUNCTURED ROMANCE)
>
> Keystone-Triangle Comedies (1915-17):
> 46 of 119 two-reelers exist
> (does not include one-reel Triangle/Echo Komedies made on the lot by
> Triangle)
>
> All in all, that means that about 232 of the 540 films (or around 43%)
> Mack Sennett supervised under the Keystone banner between 1912 and
> 1917
> exist today in one form or another, and most all or nearly complete!
>
> Truly a staggering number when we're talking about pre 1918 short
> films. And there may be more of the Mutuals that turn up someday,
> based upon the number of films known to have been reissued which
> haven't yet turned up (including, of course, HER FRIEND THE BANDIT).
>
> Unfortunately, as Steve will tell you, the story's a bit more bleak
> for
> Sennett's Paramount era (1917-21), of which probably less than 10%
> exist.
>
> --
> Brent Walker
> bcwalk DeleteThis @earthlink.net
>
>
> Brent,
>
> While you're handing out percentages on extant Sennetts, what's the
> survival rate for the Pathe and Educational releases?
>
> Joe Moore


Joe:

This post was done a few years ago...since then I've discovered that a
few more Keystones exist than I had even counted at that point, so
I've stopped trying to hand out percentages.

As for Pathes and Educationals, it seems like a good percentage of the
Pathes exist, though a number in cut-down form. The ones that I'm not
aware of existing in prints held by either FIAF archives or collectors
who make their collection known and available, I'm not ready to call
"lost" because I'm sure there's a chance some are out there in some
form or another. Alice Day and Ralph Grave seem to the the Pathe
Sennett stars with the most titles currently "out of circulation."
But even those, I'm sure, are somewhere (there are a few incomplete
snippets around). I remember seeing a very nice complete print of A
DOZEN SOCKS with Alice Day (and Jack Dempsey) at Hampton's Silent
Movie Theater in the 70's, and that 16mm print is probably somewhere
today (unless it one of the ones his relative threw out). There are
about 4 Langdon's not currently known to exist, about the same number
of Turpins, maybe a couple more of the Bevans out of action. Almost
all of the Smith Family's are around in one form or another...I think
Rusty Casselton has been keeping tabs on those.

As for Sennett-Educationals, it seems like almost all of them
exist....including a lot of the 1929 ones....there are a good deal of
them at the Library of Congress thanks to the Maurice Zouary
collection.

Brent Walker
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

Is there any way one of you could post the list of surviving Keystones, or
email it to me? I've been a Keystone fan for a long time and I would love to
know the existing ones I have yet to see.

Only do it if you have them typed and can paste them or something. Don't
worry about it if it would take extra work.

thanks
eric
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

Brent wrote of Harry Langdon's Mack Sennett comedies:

>There are about 4 Langdon's not currently >known to exist, about the same
number
>of Turpins, maybe a couple more of the >Bevans out of action.

For Harry Langdon, there are actually only 3 lost Sennett comedies that I am
aware of: SHANGHAIED LOVERS, FLICKERING YOUTH and THE CAT'S MEOW. Serge
Bromberg has a beautiful 35mm U.S. release print of the rare HANSOM CABMAN and
Bill Everson had a 16mm print of the almost equally scarce THERE HE GOES. I
have not been doing research on Langdon since the mid-80s so hopefully the
three missing titles have already resurfaced.

Ed Watz
(who is not including Harry's cameo in SCAREM MUCH in the mix)
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

Edbina wrote:

> Brent wrote of Harry Langdon's Mack Sennett comedies:
>
> >There are about 4 Langdon's not currently >known to exist, about the same
> number
> >of Turpins, maybe a couple more of the >Bevans out of action.
>
> For Harry Langdon, there are actually only 3 lost Sennett comedies that I am
> aware of: SHANGHAIED LOVERS, FLICKERING YOUTH and THE CAT'S MEOW. Serge
> Bromberg has a beautiful 35mm U.S. release print of the rare HANSOM CABMAN and
> Bill Everson had a 16mm print of the almost equally scarce THERE HE GOES. I
> have not been doing research on Langdon since the mid-80s so hopefully the
> three missing titles have already resurfaced.
>
> Ed Watz
> (who is not including Harry's cameo in SCAREM MUCH in the mix)

I have a chunk of SHANGHAIED LOVERS that is in one of the FUNNY MANNS episodes.


RICHARD M ROBERTS
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

in article 401CC346.6CDB43EA.DeleteThis@earthlink.net, RIchard M Roberts at
reprobates.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote on 2/1/04 3:17 AM:

> I have a chunk of SHANGHAIED LOVERS that is in one of the FUNNY MANNS
> episodes.

I wonder how many instances occurred where the producers of Funny Manns and
Comedy Capers were unwittingly preserving sections of silent comedies that
are now lost.

JN
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

"Eric Miller" <Eric.B.Miller-1 DeleteThis @ou.edu> wrote in message news:<L9SSb.14025$Q_4.9026@okepread03>...
> Is there any way one of you could post the list of surviving Keystones, or
> email it to me? I've been a Keystone fan for a long time and I would love to
> know the existing ones I have yet to see.
>
> Only do it if you have them typed and can paste them or something. Don't
> worry about it if it would take extra work.
>
> thanks
> eric


Eric:

I don't really have a list per se that could be printed out of the
surviving Keystones...the info is interspersed throughout the lengthy
filmography for my Sennett book which will see the light of day some
time soon (I promise!).

Brent Walker
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

Richard and Jim wrote:
>> I have a chunk of SHANGHAIED LOVERS that is in one of the FUNNY MANNS
>> episodes.
>
>I wonder how many instances occurred where the producers of Funny Manns and
>Comedy Capers were unwittingly preserving sections of silent comedies that
>are now lost.
>
>JN

There are several Pathe Mack Sennett shorts divided between the Funny Manns,
Comedy Capers and Robert Youngson compilations which could be made almost whole
again if someone acquired prints of all the fragments to splice back together.
Langdon's LUCK OF THE FOOLISH, Billy Bevan's NIP & TUCK and WALL STREET BLUES,
and THE HOLLYWOOD KID immediately come to mind...there are others as well.

Ed Watz
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in article 20040201100815.13768.00000680.RemoveThis@mb-m27.aol.com, Edbina at
edbina.RemoveThis@aol.com wrote on 2/1/04 9:08 AM:

> There are several Pathe Mack Sennett shorts divided between the Funny Manns,
> Comedy Capers and Robert Youngson compilations which could be made almost
> whole
> again if someone acquired prints of all the fragments to splice back together.
> Langdon's LUCK OF THE FOOLISH, Billy Bevan's NIP & TUCK and WALL STREET BLUES,
> and THE HOLLYWOOD KID immediately come to mind...there are others as well.

Pardon this geekish comment, but that would be fun to do.

JN
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James Neibaur <jneibaur.TakeThisOut@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<BC4278A8.2CB4D%jneibaur@wi.rr.com>...
> in article 20040201100815.13768.00000680.TakeThisOut@mb-m27.aol.com, Edbina at
> edbina.TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote on 2/1/04 9:08 AM:
>
> > There are several Pathe Mack Sennett shorts divided between the Funny Manns,
> > Comedy Capers and Robert Youngson compilations which could be made almost
> > whole
> > again if someone acquired prints of all the fragments to splice back together.
> > Langdon's LUCK OF THE FOOLISH, Billy Bevan's NIP & TUCK and WALL STREET BLUES,
> > and THE HOLLYWOOD KID immediately come to mind...there are others as well.
>
> Pardon this geekish comment, but that would be fun to do.
>
> JN


One of my projects I've had for a long time "on the backburner" was
piecing together on paper THE LUCK O' THE FOOLISH based on the
scenario in the Sennett Collection, and the existing footage from
GOLDEN AGE OF COMEDY and the "Funny Manns" clip. One of those things
I started once, and time permitting, will finish one day. There are a
number of Sennetts that can be put together almost entirely based on
the various abridgements, such as THE HOLLYWOOD KID, OVER-THERE-ABOUTS
and WHISPERING WHISKERS (and if anyone out there is ever game to do a
Langdon Sennett shorts DVD, I'll gladly assist in the research dept.
in recreating the semi-lost ones from scenarios, sub-titles, stills,
etc.).

Ed, I don't know of THERE HE GOES or HANSOM CABMAN surfacing, but it
is good to know that there may be prints out there somewhere.
Actually, I do remember someone (from the Douris Group?) posting here
a couple years ago that they have the print of the HANSOM CABMAN.

Brent
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

"Brent Walker" <hauber108.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b6e233b9.0402011334.5ae2e55a@posting.google.com...
> "Eric Miller" <Eric.B.Miller-1.RemoveThis@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:<L9SSb.14025$Q_4.9026@okepread03>...
> > Is there any way one of you could post the list of surviving Keystones,
or
> > email it to me? I've been a Keystone fan for a long time and I would
love to
> > know the existing ones I have yet to see.
> >
> > Only do it if you have them typed and can paste them or something. Don't
> > worry about it if it would take extra work.
> >
> > thanks
> > eric
>
>
> Eric:
>
> I don't really have a list per se that could be printed out of the
> surviving Keystones...the info is interspersed throughout the lengthy
> filmography for my Sennett book which will see the light of day some
> time soon (I promise!).
>
> Brent Walker

Cool. I'll buy the book when it comes out. I'm still waiting for the Ford
Sterling book.

eric
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

James Neibaur wrote:

> in article 20040201100815.13768.00000680 DeleteThis @mb-m27.aol.com, Edbina at
> edbina DeleteThis @aol.com wrote on 2/1/04 9:08 AM:
>
> > There are several Pathe Mack Sennett shorts divided between the Funny Manns,
> > Comedy Capers and Robert Youngson compilations which could be made almost
> > whole
> > again if someone acquired prints of all the fragments to splice back together.
> > Langdon's LUCK OF THE FOOLISH, Billy Bevan's NIP & TUCK and WALL STREET BLUES,
> > and THE HOLLYWOOD KID immediately come to mind...there are others as well.
>
> Pardon this geekish comment, but that would be fun to do.
>
> JN


Pardon my geekish answer, but thats what I've done with a number of these titles. I
also put together the most complete version of HIS NEW MAMA with Langdon that I know
of.

Ed said it, we have to thank television of the 50's and 60's for preserving a lot of
silent comedy material. Not only COMEDY CAPERS THE FUNNY MANNS and Mr Youngson, but
the legendary Marlu Telefilms and Mr Milton Menell, and Maurice Zooary. All these
people got to the original negatives or other then-surviving material and
unknowingly preserved it for future generations as well as creating a whole new
generation that grew to love the stuff.


RICHARD M ROBERTS
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

in article 401D5604.CC8ED39.DeleteThis@earthlink.net, RIchard M Roberts at
reprobates.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote on 2/1/04 1:43 PM:

> Pardon my geekish answer, but thats what I've done with a number of these
> titles. I
> also put together the most complete version of HIS NEW MAMA with Langdon that
> I know
> of.

Sounds like an interesting project. Did you do this just for your own
collection (from materials you had in 16mm or 35mm in your own library) or
for some preservation society. Just wondering.

> Ed said it, we have to thank television of the 50's and 60's for preserving a
> lot of
> silent comedy material. Not only COMEDY CAPERS THE FUNNY MANNS and Mr
> Youngson, but
> the legendary Marlu Telefilms and Mr Milton Menell, and Maurice Zooary. All
> these
> people got to the original negatives or other then-surviving material and
> unknowingly preserved it for future generations as well as creating a whole
> new
> generation that grew to love the stuff.

Often the silent films presented on Funny Manns, Comedy Capers, and
Chuckleheads are dismissed for annoying narration and obtrusive sound
effects. But as a kid, that is how I discovered silent comedy. And it
wasn't simply those of us who later began to study and appreciate it as an
art form; everyone watched and enjoyed those TV productions back then.

I wish that stuff was still telecast now.

JN
 >> Stay informed about: KEYSTONE 

James Neibaur wrote:

> in article 401D5604.CC8ED39.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net, RIchard M Roberts at
> reprobates.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net wrote on 2/1/04 1:43 PM:
>
> > Pardon my geekish answer, but thats what I've done with a number of these
> > titles. I
> > also put together the most complete version of HIS NEW MAMA with Langdon that
> > I know
> > of.
>
> Sounds like an interesting project. Did you do this just for your own
> collection (from materials you had in 16mm or 35mm in your own library) or
> for some preservation society. Just wondering.
>
> I am my own preservation society.
>
> Often the silent films presented on Funny Manns, Comedy Capers, and
> Chuckleheads are dismissed for annoying narration and obtrusive sound
> effects. But as a kid, that is how I discovered silent comedy. And it
> wasn't simply those of us who later began to study and appreciate it as an
> art form; everyone watched and enjoyed those TV productions back then.
>
> I wish that stuff was still telecast now.

Yes, the pretentious look down their nose at them, but they did more for the
furtherance of silent film and silent comedy in particular than all the film
festivals ever put on.

RICHARD M ROBERTS


>
>
> JN
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