The Kid

Gavin Smith wrote:
> Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
> anointment utensil, Scrumpet <scrumpetspamburger.DeleteThis@peoplepc.com> poots
> forth...
>
>> Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid that
>> Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming there is
>> a connection there?
>
> Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and the Kid in
> the real world is the Kid formerly known as Michael Karl Popper,
> having escaped through self-substantiation, hence Neo's "you saved
> yourself".

Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be free. It was his
choice, not Neo's.

-PouchCotato
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

Yes they're the same and quite frankly I wish he'd rather had stayed in the
Animatrix. What a useless character.

"Scrumpet" <scrumpetspamburger.DeleteThis@peoplepc.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:2jsEc.20412$bs4.17658@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid that Neo
said
> "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming there is a connection
> there?
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

just somewhat sadly kid never truly accepted that he did all the work
himself, kind of fixated on neo.. as you all no doubt know :)
"PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.RemoveThis@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:40e39e79$0$24763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Gavin Smith wrote:
> > Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
> > anointment utensil, Scrumpet <scrumpetspamburger.RemoveThis@peoplepc.com> poots
> > forth...
> >
> >> Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid that
> >> Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming there is
> >> a connection there?
> >
> > Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and the Kid in
> > the real world is the Kid formerly known as Michael Karl Popper,
> > having escaped through self-substantiation, hence Neo's "you saved
> > yourself".
>
> Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be free. It was
his
> choice, not Neo's.
>
> -PouchCotato
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

Yeah. Come to think of it, I think it would have been better if Zee opened
that gate instead of the Kid.

Diogo Bastos <news:40e42b7f$0$5840$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>:
> Yes they're the same and quite frankly I wish he'd rather had stayed
> in the Animatrix. What a useless character.
>
> "Scrumpet" <scrumpetspamburger.DeleteThis@peoplepc.com> escreveu na mensagem
> news:2jsEc.20412$bs4.17658@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid that
> > Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming there is
> > a connection there?
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

He wouldn't have done it if not for Neo.

-Knowledge

"Logan" <logan1.TakeThisOut@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:40e3f890$0$18191$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> just somewhat sadly kid never truly accepted that he did all the work
> himself, kind of fixated on neo.. as you all no doubt know :)
> "PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
> news:40e39e79$0$24763$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> > Gavin Smith wrote:
> > > Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
> > > anointment utensil, Scrumpet <scrumpetspamburger.TakeThisOut@peoplepc.com> poots
> > > forth...
> > >
> > >> Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid that
> > >> Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming there is
> > >> a connection there?
> > >
> > > Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and the Kid in
> > > the real world is the Kid formerly known as Michael Karl Popper,
> > > having escaped through self-substantiation, hence Neo's "you saved
> > > yourself".
> >
> > Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be free. It was
> his
> > choice, not Neo's.
> >
> > -PouchCotato
> >
> >
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

"Diogo Bastos" <damrho RemoveThis @netcabo.pt> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:40e42b7f$0$5840$a729d347@news.telepac.pt...
> Yes they're the same and quite frankly I wish he'd rather had stayed in
the
> Animatrix. What a useless character.

Well, I would think that this character was used to protrait the new
immigrant, that is a bit too over-enthusiastic for the taste of those who
are living in freedom a bit longer, but this is quite common in the USA. The
newest citizens are nearly always those most-patriotic ones. That is a
psychological thing. Quite a number of the younger ones join the military to
make a real contribution for the community of their new home. I'm quite sure
that every American would have immedatly recognised him as such.

Best,

MCN
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

I'm not convinced. I see Neo not like a God (I don't think Neo does,
either), but as someone who realises the evils of idolatry. He
emphasised the need for Kid to accept truth in the face of false
belief - that Kid and only Kid can have chosen to *self*-substantiate
(in other words, a rather svelte commentary on religion). Certainly, Neo
suggested that when he said "You saved yourself."

Otherwise, I could equally argue that Trinity also 'got him out', since
she was also aboard the Neb when Kid s/s'ed (that is, apart from the
information we have when Popper woke up, anything else is inference,
including the suggestion that Neo had more 'responsibility' than
Trinity).

Yet another argument (as has been presented before, I believe) could be
that Neo actually is/was a God, but that he didn't believe in himself,
while others did (e.g. Kid; Niobe).

At this point I'll also put in a plug for my restaurant's Soup O' The
Day: Kettle of Fish for $1. I also have Cans of Worms going out for 10
cents.
--
Melloccino
----------------------------------------
"There are truths on this side of the Pyrenees...
....that are falsehoods on the other"

Knowledge wrote:
> He wouldn't have done it if not for Neo.
>
> -Knowledge
>
> "Logan" <logan1.TakeThisOut@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>> just somewhat sadly kid never truly accepted that he did all the work
>> himself, kind of fixated on neo.. as you all no doubt know :)
>> "PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
>>> Gavin Smith wrote:
>>>> Scrumpet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid
>>>>> that Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming
>>>>> there is a connection there?
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and the
>>>> Kid in the real world is the Kid formerly known as Michael Karl
>>>> Popper, having escaped through self-substantiation, hence Neo's
>>>> "you saved yourself".
>>>
>>> Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be free.
>>> It was his choice, not Neo's.
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

"Melloccino" <melloccino.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2kpdsdF4su2gU1@uni-berlin.de...
>Certainly, Neo suggested that when he said "You saved yourself."

Yes, but that might have different (e.g. psychological) reasons. 1.) If you
did something yourself you can't blame somebody else if you start to regret
your decision. 2.) People have less problems to stay with their own
decisions even when things become sour. 3.) I believe it was Adams (or so)
who said that a free nation can only free when their citizens behave like
free citizens, not bound into the chains of thankfulness to other then god
or state as they freed themselves by making the decision to liberate
themselves mentally and made the journey across the ocean to liberate
themselves physically. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was
something like that. If Zion is the land of the free then its citizens have
to be free too, to defend it not only because they were ordered to do so,
but to defend themselves and their success in librating oneself. 4.) They
all have reached only the first step to Liberation. Zion is not free really,
it is under such a grave danger that everyone is immediately forced into the
defence against the machines. In a way they are just so free to fight to
free themselves, but not truly free jet. So they change the way of fighting
to liberate themselves from escape of the Matrix to defence of Zion. So it
is psychological a big advantage to tell somebody that he has freed himself
(was successful on his own) as he has to continue the fight to free himself.
If he knew that he was librated by others, he might leak the believe that he
can stand the phase two too without outside help. From a psychological point
of view it is much more useful to make people believe that they are
continuing their own successful run. The believe/know that they managed to
bring themselves to this point and have much more faith into themselves to
bring themselves to the next point too.

So I always would have said that he freed himself.

Best,

MCN
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

We like to open Cand of Worms around here. I'll take two!

Melloccino <news:2kpdsdF4su2gU1@uni-berlin.de>:
> I'm not convinced. I see Neo not like a God (I don't think Neo does,
> either), but as someone who realises the evils of idolatry. He
> emphasised the need for Kid to accept truth in the face of false
> belief - that Kid and only Kid can have chosen to *self*-substantiate
> (in other words, a rather svelte commentary on religion). Certainly,
> Neo suggested that when he said "You saved yourself."
>
> Otherwise, I could equally argue that Trinity also 'got him out',
> since she was also aboard the Neb when Kid s/s'ed (that is, apart
> from the information we have when Popper woke up, anything else is
> inference, including the suggestion that Neo had more
> 'responsibility' than Trinity).
>
> Yet another argument (as has been presented before, I believe) could
> be that Neo actually is/was a God, but that he didn't believe in
> himself, while others did (e.g. Kid; Niobe).
>
> At this point I'll also put in a plug for my restaurant's Soup O' The
> Day: Kettle of Fish for $1. I also have Cans of Worms going out for 10
> cents.
>
> Knowledge wrote:
> > He wouldn't have done it if not for Neo.
> >
> > -Knowledge
> >
> > "Logan" <logan1.RemoveThis@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> > > just somewhat sadly kid never truly accepted that he did all the
> > > work himself, kind of fixated on neo.. as you all no doubt know
> > > :) "PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.RemoveThis@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
> > > > Gavin Smith wrote:
> > > > > Scrumpet wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same
> > > > > > kid that Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm
> > > > > > assuming there is a connection there?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and
> > > > > the Kid in the real world is the Kid formerly known as
> > > > > Michael Karl Popper, having escaped through
> > > > > self-substantiation, hence Neo's "you saved yourself".
> > > >
> > > > Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be
> > > > free. It was his choice, not Neo's.
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

As always, Mello, a wealth of knowledge there...(hah, just realised it was a
reply to knowledge...nice :))

I see it as this kind of thing: If I tell someone how to shoot a gun, and
they go out and kill someone, did I kill that person? We have to be
responsible for our own actions. I do agree he wouldn't have got out without
Neo, but he also wouldn't have got out without Morpheus, Trinity, et. al.

Neo told The Kid that he could be free, The Kid believed him and The Kid
utilised that knowledge (heheh) to self-substantiate.
--
-PouchCotato

Melloccino wrote:
> I'm not convinced. I see Neo not like a God (I don't think Neo does,
> either), but as someone who realises the evils of idolatry. He
> emphasised the need for Kid to accept truth in the face of false
> belief - that Kid and only Kid can have chosen to *self*-substantiate
> (in other words, a rather svelte commentary on religion). Certainly,
> Neo suggested that when he said "You saved yourself."
>
> Otherwise, I could equally argue that Trinity also 'got him out',
> since she was also aboard the Neb when Kid s/s'ed (that is, apart
> from the information we have when Popper woke up, anything else is
> inference, including the suggestion that Neo had more
> 'responsibility' than Trinity).
>
> Yet another argument (as has been presented before, I believe) could
> be that Neo actually is/was a God, but that he didn't believe in
> himself, while others did (e.g. Kid; Niobe).
>
> At this point I'll also put in a plug for my restaurant's Soup O' The
> Day: Kettle of Fish for $1. I also have Cans of Worms going out for 10
> cents.
>
> Knowledge wrote:
>> He wouldn't have done it if not for Neo.
>>
>> -Knowledge
>>
>> "Logan" <logan1.TakeThisOut@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>> just somewhat sadly kid never truly accepted that he did all the
>>> work himself, kind of fixated on neo.. as you all no doubt know :)
>>> "PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
>>>> Gavin Smith wrote:
>>>>> Scrumpet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid
>>>>>> that Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming
>>>>>> there is a connection there?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and the
>>>>> Kid in the real world is the Kid formerly known as Michael Karl
>>>>> Popper, having escaped through self-substantiation, hence Neo's
>>>>> "you saved yourself".
>>>>
>>>> Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be free.
>>>> It was his choice, not Neo's.
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

"PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.DeleteThis@iinet.net.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:40e7a0e3$0$24742$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

> I see it as this kind of thing: If I tell someone how to shoot a gun, and
> they go out and kill someone, did I kill that person? We have to be
> responsible for our own actions. I do agree he wouldn't have got out
without
> Neo, but he also wouldn't have got out without Morpheus, Trinity, et. al.

One should make a difference between being causal and being responsible.
If you told someone how to use a gun and this one goes out kills somebody
your adivse in using the gun might be causal as without your help he would
have been unable to shoot the other. The self-responsibility of the one who
shoot would free your from the direct link, but if you knew for what he was
needing your help you have done complicity in murder/killing. But there
might be situation where one might intentionally cause an error or use an
error under which the other acted, then you are not only causal, but
responsible too as you was in control (by the knowledge of the error). And
there might be situation were your word might be so important to someone
that he takes it more serious then the words of law and does what you told
him while ignoring the law. He knows what he is doing, but you control him.
That is often the case with religious groups and is always a big problem for
lawyers. It was when Thomas Becket was killed after the king asked to be
freed from that person and it still is when you see a mass-suicide of a
religious group.

So Neo was causal and it would depend on the state-of-mind of the Kid
whether Neo was responsbile too or not.

Best,

MCN
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

PouchCotato
<news:40e7a0e3$0$24742$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>:
>
> I see it as this kind of thing: If I tell someone how to shoot a gun,
> and they go out and kill someone, did I kill that person? We have to
> be responsible for our own actions. I do agree he wouldn't have got
> out without Neo, but he also wouldn't have got out without Morpheus,
> Trinity, et. al.
>
> Neo told The Kid that he could be free, The Kid believed him and The
> Kid utilised that knowledge (heheh) to self-substantiate.

Telling someone to shoot a gun isn't killing someone.

Manipulating someone and telling them to shoot a gun at another person with
intent of killing that other person is killing someone.

Educating someone about their potential and persuading someone to act in a
specific way. In the former situation, you're not responsible. In the
latter, you are.
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid 

Melloccino wrote:

> I'm not convinced. I see Neo not like a God (I don't think Neo does,
> either), but as someone who realises the evils of idolatry. He
> emphasised the need for Kid to accept truth in the face of false
> belief - that Kid and only Kid can have chosen to *self*-substantiate
> (in other words, a rather svelte commentary on religion). Certainly, Neo
> suggested that when he said "You saved yourself."
>
> Otherwise, I could equally argue that Trinity also 'got him out', since
> she was also aboard the Neb when Kid s/s'ed (that is, apart from the
> information we have when Popper woke up, anything else is inference,
> including the suggestion that Neo had more 'responsibility' than
> Trinity).
>
> Yet another argument (as has been presented before, I believe) could be
> that Neo actually is/was a God, but that he didn't believe in himself,
> while others did (e.g. Kid; Niobe).
>
> At this point I'll also put in a plug for my restaurant's Soup O' The
> Day: Kettle of Fish for $1. I also have Cans of Worms going out for 10
> cents.
> --
> Melloccino
> ----------------------------------------
> "There are truths on this side of the Pyrenees...
> ...that are falsehoods on the other"
>
> Knowledge wrote:
>
>>He wouldn't have done it if not for Neo.
>>
>>-Knowledge
>>
>>"Logan" <logan1.TakeThisOut@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>
>>>just somewhat sadly kid never truly accepted that he did all the work
>>>himself, kind of fixated on neo.. as you all no doubt know :)
>>>"PouchCotato" <pouchcotatoNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>Gavin Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Scrumpet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is the kid that jumps off the school in Animatrix the same kid
>>>>>>that Neo said "you saved yourself, kid" to in M2? I'm assuming
>>>>>>there is a connection there?
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes. Michael Karl Popper is the kid in the (Ani)Matrix, and the
>>>>>Kid in the real world is the Kid formerly known as Michael Karl
>>>>>Popper, having escaped through self-substantiation, hence Neo's
>>>>>"you saved yourself".
>>>>
>>>>Neo's "you saved yourself" was because the Kid wanted to be free.
>>>>It was his choice, not Neo's.
>
>
>
Yes it is ;)
 >> Stay informed about: The Kid