LONESOME (1928) in 35mm?

Fair Pickings <cpierce.DeleteThis@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message news:<BC364E8A.38264%cpierce@twcny.rr.com>...
> I sure this has been talked about, but I couldn't find it in a quick search
> of past postings: does LONESOME (1928) exist in a 35mm print and, if so, is
> it silent or sound and who has it?
> Thanks.
>
> Art Pierce

The George Eastman House has an excellent 35mm print. It is the
sound version with English titles (retranslated from French) and hand
colored!

The Cinematheque Francaise has the only original print, 35mm, with
French titles, as well as associated copy negs and prints.

Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

junkmetal.RemoveThis@earthlink.net (Junkmetal) wrote in message news:<786a7532.0401230738.f06bd83.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
> Fair Pickings <cpierce.RemoveThis@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message news:<BC364E8A.38264%cpierce@twcny.rr.com>...
> > I sure this has been talked about, but I couldn't find it in a quick search
> > of past postings: does LONESOME (1928) exist in a 35mm print and, if so, is
> > it silent or sound and who has it?
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Art Pierce
>
> The George Eastman House has an excellent 35mm print. It is the
> sound version with English titles (retranslated from French) and hand
> colored!
>
> The Cinematheque Francaise has the only original print, 35mm, with
> French titles, as well as associated copy negs and prints.
>
> Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra

So I take it it was GEH and not UCLA I was thinking of, I was debating
that.

Hand-colored, though? I don't remember any color, let alone any form
of hand-coloring. I remember a plain black and white print.
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

Fair Pickings <cpierce.RemoveThis@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message news:<BC364E8A.38264%cpierce@twcny.rr.com>...
> I sure this has been talked about, but I couldn't find it in a quick search
> of past postings: does LONESOME (1928) exist in a 35mm print and, if so, is
> it silent or sound and who has it?
> Thanks.
>
> Art Pierce

Eastman House has a print but you will need to
clear the RIGHTS from Universal. They are sensitive
about this

Jessica
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

> So I take it it was GEH and not UCLA I was thinking of, I was debating
> that.
>
> Hand-colored, though? I don't remember any color, let alone any form
> of hand-coloring. I remember a plain black and white print.

Yes, it is definately GEH who restored the print. It's both tinted
and hand colored. The previous discussion on the newsgroup said that
it is stencils, but I would be surprised (although I must admit that I
don't understand how stencils are used for coloring film). There is a
blurry red color added to parts of the frame in the nighttime Coney
Island scene and a couple of other scenes. It definately looks like
some student of Paolo's was put in front of the film with a tiny
paintbrush and told to add color to the scenes. It's very crude, and
very charming.

Alloy has performed along with this print many times - until the only
French language print was lost in shipping (not on an Alloy show), and
then the English language print was destroyed in projection and the
print was taken off the rental market (also not an Alloy showing).
The print has been repaired and occasionally gets rented and shown.

Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

in article 786a7532.0401231808.492381e.RemoveThis@posting.google.com, Junkmetal at
junkmetal.RemoveThis@earthlink.net wrote on 1/23/04 9:08 PM:

>> So I take it it was GEH and not UCLA I was thinking of, I was debating
>> that.
>>
>> Hand-colored, though? I don't remember any color, let alone any form
>> of hand-coloring. I remember a plain black and white print.
>
> Yes, it is definately GEH who restored the print. It's both tinted
> and hand colored. The previous discussion on the newsgroup said that
> it is stencils, but I would be surprised (although I must admit that I
> don't understand how stencils are used for coloring film). There is a
> blurry red color added to parts of the frame in the nighttime Coney
> Island scene and a couple of other scenes. It definately looks like
> some student of Paolo's was put in front of the film with a tiny
> paintbrush and told to add color to the scenes. It's very crude, and
> very charming.
>
> Alloy has performed along with this print many times - until the only
> French language print was lost in shipping (not on an Alloy show), and
> then the English language print was destroyed in projection and the
> print was taken off the rental market (also not an Alloy showing).
> The print has been repaired and occasionally gets rented and shown.
>
> Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra


Thanks, everybody, for the info!

Art Pierce
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

Junkmetal wrote:

> > So I take it it was GEH and not UCLA I was thinking of, I was debating
> > that.
> >
> > Hand-colored, though? I don't remember any color, let alone any form
> > of hand-coloring. I remember a plain black and white print.
>
> Yes, it is definately GEH who restored the print. It's both tinted
> and hand colored. The previous discussion on the newsgroup said that
> it is stencils, but I would be surprised (although I must admit that I
> don't understand how stencils are used for coloring film). There is a
> blurry red color added to parts of the frame in the nighttime Coney
> Island scene and a couple of other scenes. It definately looks like
> some student of Paolo's was put in front of the film with a tiny
> paintbrush and told to add color to the scenes. It's very crude, and
> very charming.
>
> Alloy has performed along with this print many times - until the only
> French language print was lost in shipping (not on an Alloy show), and
> then the English language print was destroyed in projection and the
> print was taken off the rental market (also not an Alloy showing).

This may be one of the few times I can think of whan I'm thankful for film
damage.

RICHARD M ROBERTS
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

Eastman House has a print, but I would hardly call it excellent. It
is one of the punkest
> "restorations" I've seen. It is pretty contrasty, they didn't bother to balance the sound track on the
> title inserts--it goes from normal level to blasting when the titles come on. The Alloy orchestra has
> played for this picture, and probably have only hear the talking sequences, since their music replaces
> the Movietone score in the concert performances.

I have heard the original soundtrack numerous times on the Eastman
House print, and it does have the problems that you describe. I
wonder though if this is faithful to the original. Has anyone heard
the soundtrack on an French titled print, that would have the
soundtrack reproduced faithfully? This was awfully early in sound
recording, and talkies and in general. Lonesome was not a major
release (Universal being a small fry in those days). It's easy for me
to imagine that when they reedited the film to inclulde the talking
scenes they didn't ballance the sound properly, and created the clunks
and pops where the talkie sections begin.

Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

Eastman House has a print, but I would hardly call it excellent. It
is one of the punkest
> "restorations" I've seen. It is pretty contrasty, they didn't bother to balance the sound track on the
> title inserts--it goes from normal level to blasting when the titles come on. The Alloy orchestra has
> played for this picture, and probably have only hear the talking sequences, since their music replaces
> the Movietone score in the concert performances.

I have heard the original soundtrack numerous times on the Eastman
House print, and it does have the problems that you describe. I
wonder though if this is faithful to the original. Has anyone heard
the soundtrack on an French titled print, that would have the
soundtrack reproduced as it originally was? This was very early in
sound recording, and even earlier for talkies. Lonesome was not a
major release (Universal being a small fry in those days). It's easy
for me to imagine that when they reedited the film to include the
talking scenes they didn't balance the sound properly, and created the
clunks and pops where the talkie sections begin.

I'm always amazed to hear people complain about the quality of a
restoration (or a new score for that matter). If it wasn't for
Eastman House putting tons of time and money into this film, you would
never have seen this wonderful film. The print is gorgeous, the
titling done tastefully, and the clunky and awkward talkie scenes are
fresh, funny and a very interesting view of what the first talkies
were about.

Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra

Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra

Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

junkmetal DeleteThis @earthlink.net (Junkmetal) wrote in message news:<786a7532.0401251221.235bfc1e DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> I'm always amazed to hear people complain about the quality of a
> restoration (or a new score for that matter).

Why, has someone complained about Alloy's scores here?

(Man, you must have a thick hide to submit to
alt.movies.silent.exceptforthatdamnalloyorchestra....)
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

> (Man, you must have a thick hide to submit to
> alt.movies.silent.exceptforthatdamnalloyorchestra....)

I have developed a thick hide thanks to this generous and supportive
group. It used to bother me to see you guys slag Alloy time after
time. But then I began to realize that it is always the same few
people who pipe up with their complaints. Now I find it to be fun
sport to argue with you.

There are quite a number of members of this group who I consider
friends. There are quite a few others who have, in the newsgroup and
privately, expressed their enjoyment of our music.

The reason I posted this time was because somebody needed information
that I had (even if it's Fair Pickings who has repeatedly stated how
much he hates Alloy's scores). Previous respondents were incorrect in
their information.

Frankly, the criticism we receive in this group makes me pity the
closed minded and out of touch members of this group. It's clear to
anyone who pays any attention that many silent film fans love Alloy
(just come to a show and see) and that we have probably done more to
bring new audiences to silent film showings than any other musical
group or solo accompanist in this country.

For most of the people in the US who have seen Lonesome (as well as
France, Finland, Italy, Slovenia and New Zealand), it is because Alloy
wrote a score and organized the screening. The standing ovation of
1200 audience members at Alloy's screening of Lonesome at Pordenone,
tells me much more about people's reaction to our music than the
complaints of a few out of touch whiners. And, if that's not enough
to keep my spirits up, the fact that the best film festivals, cultural
centers, and film programs in the US repeatedly invite Alloy to
perform to highly appreciative audiences, makes it easy for me to
ignore your insignificant opinions.

Your Pal,
Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

Here's an actual conversation from dinner at Cinesation this year:

60ish GENTLEMAN: What do you think of the Alloy Orchestra's scores?

ME, TRYING TO STRIKE A POLITE MIDDLE GROUND: Um... my 5-year-old son
enjoys the Arbuckle-Keaton scores, he gets up and dances to them. I
think they'd be more fun in live performance.

60ish GENTLEMAN: Well, I like them a lot. But I'm afraid of saying so
around here-- you might get hit!
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

Junkmetal wrote:

For most of the people in the US who have seen Lonesome (as well as

> France, Finland, Italy, Slovenia and New Zealand), it is because Alloy
> wrote a score and organized the screening. The standing ovation of
> 1200 audience members at Alloy's screening of Lonesome at Pordenone,
> tells me much more about people's reaction to our music than the
> complaints of a few out of touch whiners. And, if that's not enough
> to keep my spirits up, the fact that the best film festivals, cultural
> centers, and film programs in the US repeatedly invite Alloy to
> perform to highly appreciative audiences, makes it easy for me to
> ignore your insignificant opinions.
>
> Your Pal,
> Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra

Excuse me, but I think I've just been insulted by proxy.
I can take your Keaton scores, and the Lost World, but your Manslaughter
score just makes me very angry.

Your insignificant listener
Stott
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm? 

in article 786a7532.0401260758.1ffa3d68.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com, Junkmetal at
junkmetal.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net wrote on 1/26/04 10:58 AM:

>> (Man, you must have a thick hide to submit to
>> alt.movies.silent.exceptforthatdamnalloyorchestra....)
>
> I have developed a thick hide thanks to this generous and supportive
> group. It used to bother me to see you guys slag Alloy time after
> time. But then I began to realize that it is always the same few
> people who pipe up with their complaints. Now I find it to be fun
> sport to argue with you.
>
> There are quite a number of members of this group who I consider
> friends. There are quite a few others who have, in the newsgroup and
> privately, expressed their enjoyment of our music.
>
> The reason I posted this time was because somebody needed information
> that I had (even if it's Fair Pickings who has repeatedly stated how
> much he hates Alloy's scores).

Hey! I only made maybe two (or possibly three) such statements, and not
in a L-O-N-G time. I've decided that just because I don't like them, I
won't fault other people who DO like them, and will refrain from commenting
on the situation. (And wouldn't have here, except my name was brought up.)
Besides, from Mr. Winkour's numerous postings completely unrelated to Alloy,
he has demonstrated that he has a knowledge and enthusiasm for silent films,
and I can't totally disapprove of such a person, even if I don't care for
his philosophy of how a movie should be accompanied.
And I DO appreciate the information!

Art Pierce
 >> Stay informed about: LONESOME (1928) in 35mm?