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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:56 am
Post subject: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians"
Archived from groups: alt>movies>silent, others (more info?)
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There is a truly bizarre chapter in A.N. Wilson's new book, "After the
Victorians," the sequel to "The Victorians," which he published two or
three years ago. I reviewed the earlier book on Amazon at the time.
The chapter is called "The Special Relationship I" and it concerns
Laurel and Hardy, and it has to be read to be believed.
Pages 370-382. You could probably read it standing up in the
bookstore.
In the same book he also makes a couple of passing swipes at Chaplin.
Concerning Laurel and Hardy he writes: "The magic of the films is drawn
from more than one source, which is surely why they are so much funnier
than the monchrome mimetic Chaplin -- whom Stan Laurel had
understudied..." (p. 370).
"Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
But you must read that one chapter. It's mindboggling in its
stupidity.
Tom Moran |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:30 am
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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James Neibaur wrote:
> Feuillade 12/30/05 8:56 AM
>> Concerning Laurel and Hardy he writes: "The magic of the films is drawn
>> from more than one source, which is surely why they are so much funnier
>> than the monchrome mimetic Chaplin -- whom Stan Laurel had
>> understudied..." (p. 370).
>> "Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
>> funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
> I may also laugh more at Laurel and Hardy, but to dismiss Chaplin as
> "monchrome mimetic" is preposterous.
I don't laugh at all at the sound films of Laurel and Hardy, but I like
their silent work. I think "Two Tars" is one of the funniest
two-reelers ever made -- up there with the best of Chaplin and Keaton.
I find their sound work amiable but not particularly funny.
But Wilson's book is odd, to say the least. When he writes about the
Depression in America, for example, he doesn't quote (or cite in his
bibliography) the book "The Bonus Army" which came out recently, or the
book "Freedom From Fear," which I believe won the Pulitzer for history
in 2000. Instead he quotes Howard Zinn's "History of the American
People."
Tom Moran |
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Since: Oct 22, 2005
Posts: 206
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:24 am
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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James Neibaur wrote:
> I love it all. They are my personal favorites.
>
> JN
Then I request a recommendation. I'm haven't watched a Laurel and
Hardy film since I was a kid, when they showed them endlessly on
television, and I suspect those were hacked up versions of the original
films. Those were mostly the sound films, weren't they? But I've been
wanting to see some of the newer releases which have been discussed
here, without necessarily purchasing the entire works of L&H. Where
would be the best place for me to start on my quest to rediscover
Laurel and Hardy? Stuff I could put in my netflix queue?
Frederica >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 222
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:28 am
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)
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Feuillade wrote:
> I don't laugh at all at the sound films of Laurel and Hardy, but I like
> their silent work. I think "Two Tars" is one of the funniest
> two-reelers ever made -- up there with the best of Chaplin and Keaton.
>
> I find their sound work amiable but not particularly funny.
I always enjoy seeing Laurel and Hardy (well, except for that STAN
VISITS OLLIE clip). But there are some films of theirs that just run
their formula into the ground:
1. Stan does something dumb
2. As a result, Ollie gets conked on the head by something
3. Ollie sighs heavily and glowers at the camera
4. Stan looks embarrassed
5. Repeat endlessly.
Don't get me wrong, up to a point even this is very funny. But their
best films work at a more personal level than when Ollie's just falling
down or getting conked over and over. My favorites are things like COME
CLEAN, BLOTTO, LIBERTY, PACK UP YOUR TROUBLES and BABES IN TOYLAND.
--Shush-- >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 564
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:32 am
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 222
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Constance Kuriyama wrote:
> Their work in general is much more formulaic than Chaplin's or
> Keaton's. That's why I don't care much for _Big Business_, though
> it's one of their more polished silents. _Two Tars_ uses the same
> formula, but introduces more variety in the cycle of destruction,
> and offers a prelude in a different key.
>
> Given the quantity of their output, the formulas were probably
> necessary, but they do wear thin.
Yes, and another complication was Hal Roach, who often tried to
tailor their material in ways that didn't work so well. He's the one
who kept putting them in operettas and period pieces, for example.
I think L&H work best when they're playing off other people: wives,
children, rivals, girls they're trying to impress, and so on. That
brings out their personal charm, and gives them a chance to vary their
comedy, and the results are usually wonderful. Their stuff only gets
stale for me when they're just doing their two-man slapstick act
(ANGORA LOVE, HOG WILD, DIRTY WORK, TOWED IN A HOLE, etc.). Of course,
for a lot of L&H fans, those films are their best!
--Shush-- >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 988
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>movies>silent, others (more info?)
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Feuillade 12/30/05 8:56 AM
> Concerning Laurel and Hardy he writes: "The magic of the films is drawn
> from more than one source, which is surely why they are so much funnier
> than the monchrome mimetic Chaplin -- whom Stan Laurel had
> understudied..." (p. 370).
>
> "Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
> funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
I may also laugh more at Laurel and Hardy, but to dismiss Chaplin as
"monchrome mimetic" is preposterous.
JN >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 118
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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A couple years ago they showed some Laurel and Hardy's at the Niles Essanay
festival. I thought, oh well, i'd seen them all before but i'd stick
around--and i ended up laughing harder than i have in years. I was talking
with friends the other night, and we were just in stitches recounting Big
Business to each other. One of my friends is a teacher who showed it to
some of his students last month. Though only a dozen or so kids showed up
at the screening, they loved it and spent the next day telling all their
friends "oh, you really missed a good one!"
I'm not sure which DVD set that one is on, but Big Business is definitely
a favorite of mine. Of the talkies, Chickens Come Home is a particular
fave as well. Of the features, it's Sons of the Desert hands down.
greta
Frederica wrote:
> James Neibaur wrote:
>
> > I love it all. They are my personal favorites.
> >
> > JN
>
> Then I request a recommendation. I'm haven't watched a Laurel and
> Hardy film since I was a kid, when they showed them endlessly on
> television, and I suspect those were hacked up versions of the original
> films. Those were mostly the sound films, weren't they? But I've been
> wanting to see some of the newer releases which have been discussed
> here, without necessarily purchasing the entire works of L&H. Where
> would be the best place for me to start on my quest to rediscover
> Laurel and Hardy? Stuff I could put in my netflix queue?
>
> Frederica >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Jul 13, 2003
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Feuillade 12/30/05 9:30 AM
> I don't laugh at all at the sound films of Laurel and Hardy, but I like
> their silent work. I think "Two Tars" is one of the funniest
> two-reelers ever made -- up there with the best of Chaplin and Keaton.
>
> I find their sound work amiable but not particularly funny.
I love it all. They are my personal favorites.
JN >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Dec 26, 2005
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"James Neibaur" <jneibaur DeleteThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BFDAAB4A.686FC%jneibaur@wi.rr.com...
> Feuillade 12/30/05 8:56 AM
>>
>> "Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
>> funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
Some of the old Punch jokes floor me- here's one from the 1880's.
Young boy leaving the dentist with his governess:
"When I grow up I want to be a Dentist"
"Why?"
"Revenge"
Stott >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: May 25, 2004
Posts: 86
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Feuillade" <Feuillade DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:1135956655.722693.65620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> James Neibaur wrote:
>
>> Feuillade 12/30/05 8:56 AM
>
>>> Concerning Laurel and Hardy he writes: "The magic of the films is drawn
>>> from more than one source, which is surely why they are so much funnier
>>> than the monchrome mimetic Chaplin -- whom Stan Laurel had
>>> understudied..." (p. 370).
>
>>> "Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
>>> funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
>
>> I may also laugh more at Laurel and Hardy, but to dismiss Chaplin as
>> "monchrome mimetic" is preposterous.
>
> I don't laugh at all at the sound films of Laurel and Hardy, but I like
> their silent work. I think "Two Tars" is one of the funniest
> two-reelers ever made -- up there with the best of Chaplin and Keaton.
>
> I find their sound work amiable but not particularly funny.
Are you on downers or something? SONS OF THE DESERT is one of the funniest
films ever made! :)
Derek >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"greta de groat" <gdegroat.RemoveThis@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:43B5C32E.B8400B8@stanford.edu...
> A couple years ago they showed some Laurel and Hardy's at the Niles
Essanay
> festival. I thought, oh well, i'd seen them all before but i'd stick
> around--and i ended up laughing harder than i have in years. I was
talking
> with friends the other night, and we were just in stitches recounting Big
> Business to each other. One of my friends is a teacher who showed it to
> some of his students last month. Though only a dozen or so kids showed up
> at the screening, they loved it and spent the next day telling all their
> friends "oh, you really missed a good one!"
This is the best way to view comedy - in a group setting. Laughter is
contagious. >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Since: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 671
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)
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"Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> There is a truly bizarre chapter in A.N. Wilson's new book, "After the
> Victorians," the sequel to "The Victorians," which he published two or
> three years ago. I reviewed the earlier book on Amazon at the time.
>
> The chapter is called "The Special Relationship I" and it concerns
> Laurel and Hardy, and it has to be read to be believed.
>
> Pages 370-382. You could probably read it standing up in the
> bookstore.
>
> In the same book he also makes a couple of passing swipes at Chaplin.
>
> Concerning Laurel and Hardy he writes: "The magic of the films is drawn
> from more than one source, which is surely why they are so much funnier
> than the monchrome mimetic Chaplin -- whom Stan Laurel had
> understudied..." (p. 370).
>
> "Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
> funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
>
> But you must read that one chapter. It's mindboggling in its
> stupidity.
>
> Tom Moran
Just another one of those Chaplin-hating Brits. Ho-hum. A prophet is
received everywhere but in his own country, and his own house.
And as you must have noticed, one doesn't have to be intelligent to
publish a book.
Connie K. >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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Posts: 671
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Feuillade" (Feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> James Neibaur wrote:
>
>> Feuillade 12/30/05 8:56 AM
>
>>> Concerning Laurel and Hardy he writes: "The magic of the films is drawn
>>> from more than one source, which is surely why they are so much funnier
>>> than the monchrome mimetic Chaplin -- whom Stan Laurel had
>>> understudied..." (p. 370).
>
>>> "Chaplin seems eerily unfunny today, as do back numbers of supposedly
>>> funny magazines like Punch." (p. 231)
>
>> I may also laugh more at Laurel and Hardy, but to dismiss Chaplin as
>> "monchrome mimetic" is preposterous.
>
> I don't laugh at all at the sound films of Laurel and Hardy, but I like
> their silent work. I think "Two Tars" is one of the funniest
> two-reelers ever made -- up there with the best of Chaplin and Keaton.
>
> I find their sound work amiable but not particularly funny.
>
> But Wilson's book is odd, to say the least. When he writes about the
> Depression in America, for example, he doesn't quote (or cite in his
> bibliography) the book "The Bonus Army" which came out recently, or the
> book "Freedom From Fear," which I believe won the Pulitzer for history
> in 2000. Instead he quotes Howard Zinn's "History of the American
> People."
>
> Tom Moran
>
The man appears to be a bit behind the times in his view of Chaplin,
also. The attitude he expresses was more prevalent in Britain twenty
years ago. The young people seem to be taking another look.
He's probably not even seen an entire Chaplin film. People with
those attitudes don't let ignorance deter them from expressing
strong negative opinions. If he did see one he surely missed the
point.
I agree with you about L&H. Their silents are fun. Their soundies I
like even less than you do. Weak scripts, truly pedestrian camera
work, slow pace. The personalities are all they have to offer.
That's something, to be sure, but I want a bit more.
Connie K. >> Stay informed about: Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin in "After the Victorians" |
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