Le Mepris (Contempt)

Mikko Pihkoluoma wrote:
> "doug" wrote...
>
>>
>>Santos L. Halper wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Forgive me if this has been discussed here before.
>>>
>>>I just saw Godard's *Le Mepris* last night and noticed some striking
>>>similarities to *Mulholland Dr.* Most specfically the last word spoken
>>>in the film being *Silencio*.
>>>
>>>Not being great at original thought, I thought I'd ask the group for any
>>>impressions they may have taken from this.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>
>>Godard films rule! His last feature, 'In Praise of Love', is beautifully
>>abstract, mysterious, enigmatic(for me) and high art.
>
>
> Wholeheartedly agreed.
>
>
>>Lynch and Godard
>>influence each other. The commentary with Le Mepris DVD is excellent.
>>There are also sections from Antonioni's 'L'Avventura' that are referenced
>>by Lynch's Mulholland Drive. Another major film connected to MD is
>>Hitchcock's 'Vertigo'.
>
>
> The influence of those two films can be seen all over Lynch's films, not
> just MD...
>
>
>>Are you serious about studying Lynch and his
>>work? Of course you are. You should collect these DVDs for multiple
>>viewings:
>>
>>Le Mepris
>>L'Avventura
>>Vertigo
>>Sunset Boulevard
>>All Godard films, ie My Life To Live, Alphaville, first name: Carmen,
>>Band Of Outsiders etc. etc.
>>Gilda
>
>
> Nice list, although Bergman is more of an influence to Lynch than Godard.
>
>
>>Clive Barker's early 'Hellraiser' flicks
>
>
> ?!?
>
>
>>By the way, the Coen's recent 'Intolerable Cruelty' made a funny
>>reference to MD's opening tragic 'joy ride' that creates the accident
>>involving Camilla. -doug
>
>
> Really? Sounds like you've been watching MD too much...
>
>
Not really. I've seen MD maybe once this year. So, that's about eight
viewings total. Bergman? I've got Wild Strawberries, which is great, and
also The Seventh Seal. What should I get next?
By the way, I mention Hellraiser, because of the blue box, an obvious reference,
and because of the way the camera is used to heighten a feeling of
suspense and horror. POV shots in hallways, etc. -doug
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"doug" wrote...
> Mikko Pihkoluoma wrote:
> > "doug" wrote...
> >>By the way, the Coen's recent 'Intolerable Cruelty' made a funny
> >>reference to MD's opening tragic 'joy ride' that creates the accident
> >>involving Camilla. -doug
> >
> >
> > Really? Sounds like you've been watching MD too much...
> >
> >
> Not really. I've seen MD maybe once this year. So, that's about eight
> viewings total. Bergman? I've got Wild Strawberries, which is great, and
> also The Seventh Seal. What should I get next?

Definitely 'Persona'. MD all over...
If you're just interested in exploring Bergman more, then I recommend at
least 'Winter Light' and 'Cries and Whispers'.

> By the way, I mention Hellraiser, because of the blue box, an obvious
reference,
> and because of the way the camera is used to heighten a feeling of
> suspense and horror. POV shots in hallways, etc. -doug

Ohkay.

Mikko
--
mikko dot pihkoluoma at welho dot com
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In article <breos4$7sb$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, Mikko Pihkoluoma
<fake123.RemoveThis@welho.com> wrote:


> > >
> > Not really. I've seen MD maybe once this year. So, that's about eight
> > viewings total. Bergman? I've got Wild Strawberries, which is great, and
> > also The Seventh Seal. What should I get next?

Try Sawdust and Tinsel, the Magician, and Monika.
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"Mikko Pihkoluoma" ha scritto nel messaggio
>> doug wrote:
> > By the way, the Coen's recent 'Intolerable Cruelty' made a funny
> > reference to MD's opening tragic 'joy ride' that creates the accident
> > involving Camilla. -doug
>
> Really? Sounds like you've been watching MD too much...

I agree. Coen's movie has an intertextual reference to "Mulholland Drive".
They kind of take joke of Lynch in that poor movie. Rex looks like Lynch;
the scene in which this character joyrides on some Mulholland Drive-sque
road is explicit.

l'individuo.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"Solo nel doppio regno /
le voci divengono /
eterne e dolci."
(Rainer Maria Rilke, I sonetti a Orfeo)
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"doug" ha scritto nel messaggio
> Not really. I've seen MD maybe once this year. So, that's about eight
> viewings total. Bergman? I've got Wild Strawberries, which is great, and
> also The Seventh Seal. What should I get next?

Think about "The Seventh Seal"'s character which impersonates 'the death'.
He has no eyebrows like Mystery Man's character in "Lost Highway".
"There're not such things as bad coincidences" (as the two detectives say in
the movie).

l'individuo.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"Solo nel doppio regno /
le voci divengono /
eterne e dolci."
(Rainer Maria Rilke, I sonetti a Orfeo)
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

l'individuo wrote:

> "Mikko Pihkoluoma" ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> doug wrote:
>> > By the way, the Coen's recent 'Intolerable Cruelty' made a funny
>> > reference to MD's opening tragic 'joy ride' that creates the accident
>> > involving Camilla. -doug
>>
>> Really? Sounds like you've been watching MD too much...
>
> I agree. Coen's movie has an intertextual reference to "Mulholland Drive".
> They kind of take joke of Lynch in that poor movie. Rex looks like Lynch;

No he doesn't.

> the scene in which this character joyrides on some Mulholland Drive-sque
> road is explicit.

I really don't think so at all... One might just as well say that it's a
direct reference to 'The Limey'.

Mikko
--
mikko dot pihkoluoma at welho dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"Mikko Pihkoluoma" ha scritto nel messaggio
> l'individuo wrote:
> > I agree. Coen's movie has an intertextual reference to "Mulholland
Drive".
> > They kind of take joke of Lynch in that poor movie. Rex looks like
Lynch;
>
> No he doesn't.

Well, my opinion is different. I don't say they're dead ringers but Rex has
even a 'Lynchian' hairstyle.

> > the scene in which this character joyrides on some Mulholland Drive-sque
> > road is explicit.
>
> I really don't think so at all... One might just as well say that it's a
> direct reference to 'The Limey'.

A black Limo that follows a convertible. People screaming. A similar
atmosphere. Watch it again and then think about Coen Brothers' intertextual
plays (it's theirs trademark). Even Rex that dies watching a movie which
resembles an old Lumière's movie (one of the first movie made in movie's
history) is not a choice made at random. It has a subtle meaning. Every
movie written and directed by Lynch contains hundreds of intertextual plays
and Lynch's belief in the 'magic' of movies is, maybe, too naive in Coen
Brothers' point of view (I got to think this is the reason for their
explicit joke).

World is an interesting place because people don't think the same.
These are my arguments. I'm waiting yours.

l'individuo.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"Solo nel doppio regno /
le voci divengono /
eterne e dolci."
(Rainer Maria Rilke, I sonetti a Orfeo)
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

> Think about "The Seventh Seal"'s character which impersonates 'the death'.
> He has no eyebrows like Mystery Man's character in "Lost Highway".
> "There're not such things as bad coincidences" (as the two detectives say in
> the movie).


Yeah, the chick in the Thompson Twins had no eyebrows either.

Draw your own conclusions.
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"l'individuo" wrote...
> "Mikko Pihkoluoma" ha scritto nel messaggio
> > l'individuo wrote:
> > > I agree. Coen's movie has an intertextual reference to "Mulholland
> Drive".
> > > They kind of take joke of Lynch in that poor movie. Rex looks like
> Lynch;
> >
> > No he doesn't.
>
> Well, my opinion is different. I don't say they're dead ringers but Rex
has
> even a 'Lynchian' hairstyle.

I knew you would go for that (which is stretching out A LOT), but I just
can't see any connection between Rex and Lynch, neither physical nor
behavioural resemblence.

I don't think Coens have ever made fun of any filmmaker in their films...
All of the references --whether or not they're humorous-- are made because
of admiration.

> > > the scene in which this character joyrides on some Mulholland
Drive-sque
> > > road is explicit.
> >
> > I really don't think so at all... One might just as well say that it's a
> > direct reference to 'The Limey'.
>
> A black Limo that follows a convertible. People screaming. A similar
> atmosphere. Watch it again and then think about Coen Brothers'
intertextual
> plays (it's theirs trademark).

Okay, you might have point with that... It seems likely that that is a
reference. Although I don't get the mood at all because it takes place in
broad daylight.

> Even Rex that dies watching a movie which
> resembles an old Lumière's movie (one of the first movie made in movie's
> history) is not a choice made at random. It has a subtle meaning. Every
> movie written and directed by Lynch contains hundreds of intertextual
plays
> and Lynch's belief in the 'magic' of movies is, maybe, too naive in Coen
> Brothers' point of view (I got to think this is the reason for their
> explicit joke).

I think you are *clearly* wrong.

You need to show a consistency within Coens work; that they have a way with
including filmmakers as characters in their films, which I don't think I've
ever seen.

> World is an interesting place because people don't think the same.

Sure.

But I've been there myself... stretching out connections between the things
I'm preoccupied with. I'm sure most people do that, but that's usually only
because they don't have broad enough horizons...


--
mikko dot pihkoluoma at welho dot com

"In the end, we all are who we are, no matter
how much we may appear to have changed."
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"jt" wrote
> Yeah, the chick in the Thompson Twins had no eyebrows either.
>
> Draw your own conclusions.

Yeah, I'm having fun.

About this chick:

a) Does she wear white make-up?
b) Does she dress in black?
c) Is she scary enough?

I'm not saying Mystery Man represents 'the death' - because I think that
Mystery Man represents Mystery Man (a tautological point of view I must
admit), it stands for a "mysterious function" in the economy of "Lost
Highway"'s narration - but his 'look' resembles "The Seventh Seal"'s
character that represents 'the death'. This is my opinion. I can be wrong
but you should try to demonstrate it with a logical set of observations.
Also 'the cowboy' in "Mulholland Drive" has no eyebrows. Is this particular
meanigful? I just don't know.

l'individuo.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"Solo nel doppio regno /
le voci divengono /
eterne e dolci."
(Rainer Maria Rilke, I sonetti a Orfeo)
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

"l'individuo" <motorpsycho999NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@yahoo.it> wrote...
: Every
: movie written and directed by Lynch contains hundreds of intertextual
plays
: and Lynch's belief in the 'magic' of movies is, maybe, too naive in Coen
: Brothers' point of view (I got to think this is the reason for their
: explicit joke).

"Intertextuality" is an expensive word for "plagiarism".

Anyhow, I don't think the Coens or Lynch are trying to quote their
contemporaries. They're merely looking for stereotypical ways of
representing certain things.

You should give them more credit than Tarantino.


..soma
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

Right. It's an obvious reference to Lynch's joyride scene.
Hey, they hung out together at the Oscars. They appreciate
each others work. -doug
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt) 

Mikko Pihkoluoma wrote:

> "l'individuo" wrote...
>
>>"Mikko Pihkoluoma" ha scritto nel messaggio
>>
>>>l'individuo wrote:
>>>
>>>>I agree. Coen's movie has an intertextual reference to "Mulholland
>>
>>Drive".
>>
>>>>They kind of take joke of Lynch in that poor movie. Rex looks like
>>
>>Lynch;
>>
>>>No he doesn't.
>>
>>Well, my opinion is different. I don't say they're dead ringers but Rex
>
> has
>
>>even a 'Lynchian' hairstyle.
>
>
> I knew you would go for that (which is stretching out A LOT), but I just
> can't see any connection between Rex and Lynch, neither physical nor
> behavioural resemblence.
>
> I don't think Coens have ever made fun of any filmmaker in their films...
> All of the references --whether or not they're humorous-- are made because
> of admiration.
>
The reference has an element of humor and it's also homage. -doug
 >> Stay informed about: Le Mepris (Contempt)