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| Chaplin Burlesque on Carmen question - Going through some info sent to me as I gather info on Chaplin's Essanay period, and I that the Juvenile Film did a movie in 1916 called Chip's Carmen which satirized Chaplin's Burlesque on Carmen. This was a two reeler directed by..
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Since: Sep 13, 2005
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:41 am
Post subject: Notes on CARMEN for Jim
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)
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This is from the "Chaplin Encyclopedia" by Glenn Mitchell regarding the
length of the re-release print of BURLESQUE ON CARMEN:
"The edition of CARMEN presently in circulation is from the Quality
Amusement Corporation, titled BURLESQUE ON CARMEN. This is a three-reel
hybrid (with seemingly interminable introductory titles) that is
neither Chaplin's nor Essanay's cut. It has been speculated that
Chaplin might easily have re-acquired CARMEN in order to restore his
intended release, but examination of the film suggests that no such
editing could be undertaken without causing enormous jumps in
continuity. Not surprisingly, there have been reissues with scores
based on Bizet's original opera; less expected is a UK print current
during the 1950s, with narration by a young Peter Sellers". (p. 39).
This brings up some questions that might be interesting to get final
answers to, such as what was the "official" release title of the film
in 1915? I've heard it referred to as CARMEN, BURLESQUE ON CARMEN, and
CHARLIE CHAPLIN'S BURLESQUE ON CARMEN (this is interesting in that it
incorporates Chaplin's name into the title).
Also, what was the source of the restored two-reel version (available
on the DVD)? I assume it wasn't just a case of cutting out the
extraneous footage from the three-reel version, as this might have
caused gaping continuity problems. Was there a print of the original
1915 2-reel release version that was used for the restoration?
One final comparison that would be interesting to do is to look at
Essanay's recutting of the film and compare it with the re-cutting they
did on POLICE, which was released right after CARMEN. There are also
those Chaplin-Essanay "revues" that they put together. I'm not sure
that these exist but they could make for some interesting subjects to
look at.
Matt |
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hey thanks. I have some period reviews of Carmen that lauded the four reel
version, and then proceeded to document Chaplin's lawsuit. I also have a
review of Chip's Carmen where a bunch of kids satirize Chaplin's satire!
Apparently this film is not lost, but I have no idea where I could get a
print for screening.
JN |
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <1149680486.712792.86030.DeleteThis@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Matt
Barry <mattbarry10.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This is from the "Chaplin Encyclopedia" by Glenn Mitchell regarding the
> length of the re-release print of BURLESQUE ON CARMEN:
>
> "The edition of CARMEN presently in circulation is from the Quality
> Amusement Corporation, titled BURLESQUE ON CARMEN. This is a three-reel
> hybrid (with seemingly interminable introductory titles) that is
> neither Chaplin's nor Essanay's cut. It has been speculated that
> Chaplin might easily have re-acquired CARMEN in order to restore his
> intended release, but examination of the film suggests that no such
> editing could be undertaken without causing enormous jumps in
> continuity. Not surprisingly, there have been reissues with scores
> based on Bizet's original opera; less expected is a UK print current
> during the 1950s, with narration by a young Peter Sellers". (p. 39).
As I said earlier, I think we DO have the 4 reel version - it's just
been transferred at sound speed, bringing it down to 45 minutes.
> This brings up some questions that might be interesting to get final
> answers to, such as what was the "official" release title of the film
> in 1915? I've heard it referred to as CARMEN, BURLESQUE ON CARMEN, and
> CHARLIE CHAPLIN'S BURLESQUE ON CARMEN (this is interesting in that it
> incorporates Chaplin's name into the title).
The copyrighted title is "Charlie Chaplin's Burlesque on Carmen". >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Doug Sulpy wrote:
> In article <1149680486.712792.86030 DeleteThis @g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Matt
> Barry <mattbarry10 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is from the "Chaplin Encyclopedia" by Glenn Mitchell regarding the
> > length of the re-release print of BURLESQUE ON CARMEN:
> >
> > "The edition of CARMEN presently in circulation is from the Quality
> > Amusement Corporation, titled BURLESQUE ON CARMEN. This is a three-reel
> > hybrid (with seemingly interminable introductory titles) that is
> > neither Chaplin's nor Essanay's cut. It has been speculated that
> > Chaplin might easily have re-acquired CARMEN in order to restore his
> > intended release, but examination of the film suggests that no such
> > editing could be undertaken without causing enormous jumps in
> > continuity. Not surprisingly, there have been reissues with scores
> > based on Bizet's original opera; less expected is a UK print current
> > during the 1950s, with narration by a young Peter Sellers". (p. 39).
>
> As I said earlier, I think we DO have the 4 reel version - it's just
> been transferred at sound speed, bringing it down to 45 minutes.
I'll have to watch this version again. I've got it on one of those PD
videotapes. I haven't watched it at all since I got the restoration of
the Chaplin 2 reel version. The longer version had too many silly
scenes with Ben Turpin in it for me.
>
> > This brings up some questions that might be interesting to get final
> > answers to, such as what was the "official" release title of the film
> > in 1915? I've heard it referred to as CARMEN, BURLESQUE ON CARMEN, and
> > CHARLIE CHAPLIN'S BURLESQUE ON CARMEN (this is interesting in that it
> > incorporates Chaplin's name into the title).
>
> The copyrighted title is "Charlie Chaplin's Burlesque on Carmen".
This will be an interesting film to study given its production history.
It's also interesting to see Chaplin doing this sort of outright
parody. It's actually one of my favorite Essanays.
Matt >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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James Neibaur wrote:
> Hey thanks. I have some period reviews of Carmen that lauded the four reel
> version, and then proceeded to document Chaplin's lawsuit. I also have a
> review of Chip's Carmen where a bunch of kids satirize Chaplin's satire!
> Apparently this film is not lost, but I have no idea where I could get a
> print for screening.
>
> JN
I would be very interested in seeing some of those "compilation" films
described in the Chapliniana section of "The Films of Charlie Chaplin",
such as the 30 reel serial "The Perils of Patrick" made entirely out of
Chaplin footage.
One other thing that might be interesting to include in the Essanay
book would be a comparison between Chaplin's Essanay comedies and the
other comedies Essanay was turning out at the same time. I've seen
several non-Chaplin Essanays and unfortunately they are not very funny.
One author said that had it not been for their Chaplin films, Essanay
would not be well remembered at all today.
Matt >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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James Neibaur wrote:
> Matt Barry 6/7/06 5:37 PM
>
> > One other thing that might be interesting to include in the Essanay
> > book would be a comparison between Chaplin's Essanay comedies and the
> > other comedies Essanay was turning out at the same time. I've seen
> > several non-Chaplin Essanays and unfortunately they are not very funny.
> > One author said that had it not been for their Chaplin films, Essanay
> > would not be well remembered at all today
>
> I have some knowledge of Augustus Carney, a comic popular in rural areas,
> who worked at Essanay prior to Chaplin.
The "Alkali Ike" series was typical of the rustic humor that I've seen
in the Essanay comedies. Evidently these Alkali Ike comedies were
turned out so quickly that they didn't even bother to give them titles. >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matt Barry wrote:
> James Neibaur wrote:
> > I have some knowledge of Augustus Carney, a comic popular in rural areas,
> > who worked at Essanay prior to Chaplin.
>
> The "Alkali Ike" series was typical of the rustic humor that I've seen
> in the Essanay comedies.
Essanay's Chicago studio, and its rented facilities in LA, didn't
produce rustic comedies at all, but most of the comedies produced at
its Niles studio did. The Snakeville comedies and the star that emerged
from them (Alkali Ike) are the only ones historians have written about,
but Essanay also produced loads of George Ade's Fables and Sweedie
comedies, along with Wallace Carlson's cartoons, several Max Linder
shorts, and other comedies. Some of Essanay's very earliest productions
featured the Mutt and Jeff-like "Hank and Lank," in an urban setting.
> Evidently these Alkali Ike comedies were
> turned out so quickly that they didn't even bother to give them titles.
You're mistaken.
--Shush-- >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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James Neibaur wrote:
> I had a Super 8 of Sweedie Learns To Swim with Wallace Beery in the title
> role. The Linder stuff is pretty readily available, although I am told it
> is not his best work
I've heard just the opposite: that the Essanay Linders aren't easy
to find at all, and that one of them may be lost. I recall someone
(Richard Roberts?) saying that what's extant is quite good actually,
though I haven't seen any of them myself.
A lot of time and money went into their production; Essanay was
hoping to hit Chaplin gold all over again with these, and they were
really hyped in the trade papers. I believe the only reason the series
came to a quick end was because of Linder's personal issues at the
time.
--Shush-- >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Matt Barry 6/7/06 5:37 PM
> One other thing that might be interesting to include in the Essanay
> book would be a comparison between Chaplin's Essanay comedies and the
> other comedies Essanay was turning out at the same time. I've seen
> several non-Chaplin Essanays and unfortunately they are not very funny.
> One author said that had it not been for their Chaplin films, Essanay
> would not be well remembered at all today
I have some knowledge of Augustus Carney, a comic popular in rural areas,
who worked at Essanay prior to Chaplin. >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Matt Barry 6/7/06 6:25 PM
>
> James Neibaur wrote:
>> Matt Barry 6/7/06 5:37 PM
>>
>>> One other thing that might be interesting to include in the Essanay
>>> book would be a comparison between Chaplin's Essanay comedies and the
>>> other comedies Essanay was turning out at the same time. I've seen
>>> several non-Chaplin Essanays and unfortunately they are not very funny.
>>> One author said that had it not been for their Chaplin films, Essanay
>>> would not be well remembered at all today
>>
>> I have some knowledge of Augustus Carney, a comic popular in rural areas,
>> who worked at Essanay prior to Chaplin.
>
> The "Alkali Ike" series was typical of the rustic humor that I've seen
> in the Essanay comedies. Evidently these Alkali Ike comedies were
> turned out so quickly that they didn't even bother to give them titles.
>
Of course for Essanay's backstory, David Kiehn's books is a most helpful
reference. >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Shush 6/7/06 6:37 PM
> Essanay's Chicago studio, and its rented facilities in LA, didn't
> produce rustic comedies at all, but most of the comedies produced at
> its Niles studio did. The Snakeville comedies and the star that emerged
> from them (Alkali Ike) are the only ones historians have written about,
> but Essanay also produced loads of George Ade's Fables and Sweedie
> comedies, along with Wallace Carlson's cartoons, several Max Linder
> shorts, and other comedies. Some of Essanay's very earliest productions
> featured the Mutt and Jeff-like "Hank and Lank," in an urban setting.
I had a Super 8 of Sweedie Learns To Swim with Wallace Beery in the title
role. The Linder stuff is pretty readily available, although I am told it
is not his best work >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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Posts: 988
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Shush 6/7/06 7:14 PM
>
> James Neibaur wrote:
>
>> I had a Super 8 of Sweedie Learns To Swim with Wallace Beery in the title
>> role. The Linder stuff is pretty readily available, although I am told it
>> is not his best work
>
> I've heard just the opposite: that the Essanay Linders aren't easy
> to find at all, and that one of them may be lost. I recall someone
> (Richard Roberts?) saying that what's extant is quite good actually,
> though I haven't seen any of them myself.
>
> A lot of time and money went into their production; Essanay was
> hoping to hit Chaplin gold all over again with these, and they were
> really hyped in the trade papers. I believe the only reason the series
> came to a quick end was because of Linder's personal issues at the
> time.
>
>
>
> --Shush--
>
I have a VHS of some Linders and will have to check and see if they are
Essanay >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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Posts: 49
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:48 am
Post subject: Re: Notes on CARMEN for Jim [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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All three Essanay Linders exist and were aired in Europe on the Arte
Network. They were retitled in French by Max's daughter Maud for the
series honoring her father. All were in pretty good shape and IMO
quite funny.
Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org
July20-23
James Neibaur wrote:
> Shush 6/7/06 7:14 PM
>
> >
> > James Neibaur wrote:
> >
> >> I had a Super 8 of Sweedie Learns To Swim with Wallace Beery in the title
> >> role. The Linder stuff is pretty readily available, although I am told it
> >> is not his best work
> >
> > I've heard just the opposite: that the Essanay Linders aren't easy
> > to find at all, and that one of them may be lost. I recall someone
> > (Richard Roberts?) saying that what's extant is quite good actually,
> > though I haven't seen any of them myself.
> >
> > A lot of time and money went into their production; Essanay was
> > hoping to hit Chaplin gold all over again with these, and they were
> > really hyped in the trade papers. I believe the only reason the series
> > came to a quick end was because of Linder's personal issues at the
> > time.
> >
> >
> >
> > --Shush--
> >
>
> I have a VHS of some Linders and will have to check and see if they are
> Essanay >> Stay informed about: Notes on CARMEN for Jim |
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