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Since: Feb 04, 2005 Posts: 25
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:41 pm
Post subject: Phantom power through a Y-cable Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)
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A few years ago, I was hired on to a low budget film, using the
production company's gear. The outside stuff called for an MKH70 on a
pole, into a Tascam DA-P1. They gave me a Y-cable and told me to just
split the mic cable into the 2 channel inputs on the DA-P1. My
preference is to use something else like a MixPre as a front end for
that deck, but that was not a budgetary option.
My real question here is what happens to the phantom power when it
comes out of both XLR
jacks of the deck, then combines through the Y-cable into a single mic
cable? I didn't hear anything odd at the time, but it made me feel a
little queasy (the owner of the deck & mic said not to worry about
it...so I tried not to). It just doesn't seem like the right thing to
do to a mic and/or the inputs of the deck, but I don't really know.
What do you guys think? Does a Y-cable to feed both channels of a
portable deck go together with phantom power? Or does that setup have
the potential of doing harm to either the mic or the deck?
Just wondering all this time...
Andy >> Stay informed about: Phantom power through a Y-cable |
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Since: Mar 16, 2006 Posts: 251
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Phantom power through a Y-cable [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2006-04-20 21:41:56 -0400, rolling_thunder55 DeleteThis @hotmail.com said:
> What do you guys think? Does a Y-cable to feed both channels of a
> portable deck go together with phantom power? Or does that setup have
> the potential of doing harm to either the mic or the deck?
Shouldn't do harm to either one. The phantom voltage (through some
current limiting resistors) will see the same phantom supply on the
other input (through equal resistors), so no current will flow between
the inputs unless those resistors are incredibly out-of-spec.
And these days, the input impedance of mic circuits is at least 2x the
output impedance of any condenser mic you're using in the field, so
there shouldn't be any bad audio loading either. (Line inputs are as
much as 10x the impedance they're supposed to be matching.)
Mics that depend on audio power transfer rather than voltage transfer -
i.e., dynamics and ribbons - may have audio issues when being split
through a Y-cable. But you wouldn't want phantom turned on with them,
anyway... (the few dynamic or ribbon mics that actually look for
phantom voltage have internal output amps, just like a condenser).
Now, Y-connecting two _outputs_ into a single input is another tale
entirely. Rarely good; sometimes disasterous. With line-level as well
as mic.
--
Jay Rose CAS
tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line. >> Stay informed about: Phantom power through a Y-cable |
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Since: Jul 28, 2005 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Phantom power through a Y-cable [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jay Rose" wrote ...
> rolling_thunder55 said:
>
>> What do you guys think? Does a Y-cable to feed both channels of a
>> portable deck go together with phantom power? Or does that setup have
>> the potential of doing harm to either the mic or the deck?
>
> Shouldn't do harm to either one. The phantom voltage (through some current
> limiting resistors) will see the same phantom supply on the other input
> (through equal resistors), so no current will flow between the inputs
> unless those resistors are incredibly out-of-spec.
Between two mic inputs on the same equipment, I wouldn't worry
about it, as Mr. Rose says. But I'd have more misgivings about doing
it between two pieces of dissimilar equipment, though. Chances are
that everything would work "nominally", but there is enough variation
in equipment out there that it is a non-zero risk of malfunction at best
and damage at worst.
I love that word "nominally". AFAIK, coined by NASA in the 1960s
(for the meaning "according to plan", otherwise centuries old Middle
English.) >> Stay informed about: Phantom power through a Y-cable |
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Since: Jul 06, 2003 Posts: 553
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: Phantom power through a Y-cable [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Now, "Y"-connecting two _outputs_ into a single input is another tale
> entirely. Rarely good; sometimes disastrous. With line-level as well as
> mic.
>
Yes..I can attest to that...
I "Y" cabled one side of my Sony DMX-P01 to an RF feed and a cart mixer, and
the other side to an RF feed, at different output levels, and it blew one of
the output IC's in the mixer, stuffing up my mic level outputs.
Not nice, still don't know what it's going to cost as they have to get the
chip from Japan.....
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"Jay Rose" <see_sigfile.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:2006042021500916807-seesigfile@nowherecom...
> On 2006-04-20 21:41:56 -0400, rolling_thunder55.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com said:
>
>> What do you guys think? Does a Y-cable to feed both channels of a
>> portable deck go together with phantom power? Or does that setup have
>> the potential of doing harm to either the mic or the deck?
>
> Shouldn't do harm to either one. The phantom voltage (through some current
> limiting resistors) will see the same phantom supply on the other input
> (through equal resistors), so no current will flow between the inputs
> unless those resistors are incredibly out-of-spec.
>
> And these days, the input impedance of mic circuits is at least 2x the
> output impedance of any condenser mic you're using in the field, so there
> shouldn't be any bad audio loading either. (Line inputs are as much as 10x
> the impedance they're supposed to be matching.)
>
> Mics that depend on audio power transfer rather than voltage transfer -
> i.e., dynamics and ribbons - may have audio issues when being split
> through a Y-cable. But you wouldn't want phantom turned on with them,
> anyway... (the few dynamic or ribbon mics that actually look for phantom
> voltage have internal output amps, just like a condenser).
>
> Now, Y-connecting two _outputs_ into a single input is another tale
> entirely. Rarely good; sometimes disasterous. With line-level as well as
> mic.
>
>
>
> --
> Jay Rose CAS
> tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
> email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line.
> >> Stay informed about: Phantom power through a Y-cable |
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Since: Mar 16, 2006 Posts: 251
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Phantom power through a Y-cable [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2006-04-20 22:25:32 -0400, "Richard Crowley"
<richard.7.crowley.RemoveThis@intel.com> said:
> ...Between two mic inputs on the same equipment, I wouldn't worry
> about it, as Mr. Rose says. But I'd have more misgivings about doing
> it between two pieces of dissimilar equipment, though....
Youch! Mr Crowley is indeed correct. Consider if one box has +48
phantom and the other has +18... volts will try to flow between them,
and might blow the blocking resistors in the lower-voltage unit.
(The OP was asking about stereo inputs on the same recorder, IIRC.)
--
Jay Rose CAS
tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line. >> Stay informed about: Phantom power through a Y-cable |
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