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Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime

 
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Austin Storms

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Since: Jan 20, 2008
Posts: 10



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:34 pm
Post subject: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)

Hey Y'all Rampers
A friend of mine was asked by Subaru to shoot a realtime race between
2 cars at a race track. They want to have a clean recording of the
engine from both cars and dialog between the 2 cars. I figured that I
would have a 744T and 3 411a RX in each car to record to. Ch1 and Ch2
would be a stereo engine compartment. Ch3 would be a lav in the
helmet of the driver and Ch4 would be their race radio coms. My
questions here is what mics to use and how to mount them in the engine
compartment? The SPL would have to be very high so Im leaning towards
dynamic mics and they would be feeding a UM400 TX. What would you do
here? Thanks

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Austin Storms

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Since: Jan 20, 2008
Posts: 10



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mar 20, 1:50 pm, "oleg kaizerman" <kaize... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> try to check pzms mounted on the engine compartment hood , or dpa 4063
> lavalieres
> sorry why do you use txs , if these are racing cars you might find way get
> the cables directly to your 744
>
> "Austin Storms" <Stormsau... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:75c571bc-271f-490b-815d-93e602650ecd@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hey Y'all Rampers
> > A friend of mine was asked by Subaru to shoot a realtime race between
> > 2 cars at a race track. They want to have a clean recording of the
> > engine from both cars and dialog between the 2 cars. I figured that I
> > would have a 744T and 3 411a RX in each car to record to. Ch1 and Ch2
> > would be a stereo engine compartment. Ch3 would be a lav in the
> > helmet of the driver and Ch4 would be their race radio coms. My
> > questions here is what mics to use and how to mount them in the engine
> > compartment? The SPL would have to be very high so Im leaning towards
> > dynamic mics and they would be feeding a UM400 TX. What would you do
> > here? Thanks

Thanks for the suggestions Oleg. I'm using Transmitters cause the
sound rig will be in the back seat and I'm not sure if I'll be able to
fish XLR cables form the engine to the back seat with the little I'll
have to set-up the cars. Keeps it simple. Another worry is how much
wind the engine compartment will have blowing around inside.

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Douglas Tourtelot

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Since: Aug 02, 2003
Posts: 438



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Apropo of nothing, make sure your transmitters work in the cars. I have
recently had a situation where the electronic ignition in an actor-driven
picture car crushed my 411s. It is possible to make it work if it's bad but
it takes time and money and it's not an on-the-day fix.

D.

"Austin Storms" <Stormsaudio RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:75c571bc-271f-490b-815d-93e602650ecd@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hey Y'all Rampers
> A friend of mine was asked by Subaru to shoot a realtime race between
> 2 cars at a race track. They want to have a clean recording of the
> engine from both cars and dialog between the 2 cars. I figured that I
> would have a 744T and 3 411a RX in each car to record to. Ch1 and Ch2
> would be a stereo engine compartment. Ch3 would be a lav in the
> helmet of the driver and Ch4 would be their race radio coms. My
> questions here is what mics to use and how to mount them in the engine
> compartment? The SPL would have to be very high so Im leaning towards
> dynamic mics and they would be feeding a UM400 TX. What would you do
> here? Thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime 
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oleg kaizerman

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Since: May 27, 2007
Posts: 559



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

try to check pzms mounted on the engine compartment hood , or dpa 4063
lavalieres
sorry why do you use txs , if these are racing cars you might find way get
the cables directly to your 744


"Austin Storms" <Stormsaudio.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:75c571bc-271f-490b-815d-93e602650ecd@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hey Y'all Rampers
> A friend of mine was asked by Subaru to shoot a realtime race between
> 2 cars at a race track. They want to have a clean recording of the
> engine from both cars and dialog between the 2 cars. I figured that I
> would have a 744T and 3 411a RX in each car to record to. Ch1 and Ch2
> would be a stereo engine compartment. Ch3 would be a lav in the
> helmet of the driver and Ch4 would be their race radio coms. My
> questions here is what mics to use and how to mount them in the engine
> compartment? The SPL would have to be very high so Im leaning towards
> dynamic mics and they would be feeding a UM400 TX. What would you do
> here? Thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime 
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Dave Fisk

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Since: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 53



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:32 am
Post subject: Re: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

OK, dude, I've done this almost exact thing, minus the helmet mics.

-Rule #1. NEVER USE WIRELESS FOR ENGINES OR TAILPIPES. I used all caps
on purpose. Wireless have a limited fequency response, and you'll lose
some cool high end and low end stuff.

-Rule #2. Mice the engine and the tailpipe.

Here is what I would do:

Use two DPA or Sennheiser Platinum series hardwired lavs in the
engine. One on the air intake, another up towards the firewall. You
don't have to worry about too much wind blowing around in there, but
you will want to have the mics in at least one of those remote audio
lav wind jammer doo-dads. Have plenty of zip ties on hand, because
that's how you'll secure the lavs in the engine compartment. Run the
cables into the car.

I would use a lav taped right above the tailpipe, and then use a magic
arm to rig a 57 or 421 in a zepp package pointing at the pipe. Make
sure they are VERY secure.

If you want to get nerdy about it, you can mount a PZM somewhere
under the car. I also have a really creative way to mount lavs in
wheel wells as well, but it's hard to explain without showing you. You
only can mic up one wheel well, usually the rear tire not by the
exhaust, as you'll get too much bleed from the engine on the front
tires, and too much from the exhaust on the rear tire that is next to
it. If it is dual exhaust, then one good trick to do is to have the
cars get going, and then shut off the engine, so you get pure tire
sounds.

If you are going to mic up the drivers, then a 744 won't be enough.
You could link 744t's, but that's a mess. I'd just get a Deva, or some
other larger recorder. If you are doing two cars at the same time,
then jam one machine from the other. I'd have identical rigs in each
car. That way all the files will be time stamped the same.

It is actually pretty important to be in the cars while recording to
make sure you get proper level. Nothing worse than having the driver
to a killer run, but your levels were too low, or getting blown out.

I have lots of little tips and tricks for stuff like this that I don't
have time to get in to right now, but to do this properly, plan on
spending at least 30 to 45 minutes rigging each car if you know what
you are doing. Have lots of paper tape, zip ties, and baby wipes on
hand. You'll need the baby wipes to clean certain areas that you'll be
taping to that will be dirty. Make sure you have at least 4, 15 to 25
foot XLR cables for all the mics on each car. I'd use the Sennheiser
HD280 headphones, as they block out more outside noise from the
headphones.

Things to watch out for:

-tailpipes that spit fire. I've seen a couple windjammers get singed
and zeppelins get melted.
-failing magic arms. don't use the ones with the levers, they come
loose. use the one with the knob, and tighten the hell out of it.
-loose cables. You don't want anything getting snagged.
-Heat. The engine compartments can get pretty hot, so be careful.

Of course, this all depends on the budget of the project, and the
amount of time you have to do this. Time wise, you would probably need
at least an 8 hour day to get everything you can out of the cars. My
philosophy is, get what you can, even if you don't need some things
for this specific project. You have the cars, and they'll be wired up,
so might as well get as much as you can.

-Dave Fisk
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johnpaul215

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Since: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 26



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

here's a question:
Will placing mics in the engine compartment sound "right"? I've never
tried this, but i would think that the sound people hear on the side
of the road is the somewhat dampened engine sound because of the
enclosure. Like i said, i've never done it, but i would worry that it
would have a lot more high end sounds than a spectator or driver would
usually get. Obviously not an issue when getting the exhaust or
tires.
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Dave Fisk

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Since: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 53



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:06 am
Post subject: Re: Recoding the engine of 2 cars racing each other in realtime [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Yeah, it sounds right. That's how it's typically done. It's nice to
have someone getting exterior by's with a stereo setup if you can.

Oh, you might also want to throw a mic or two inside the cabin to get
interior sounds while you're at it.

-Dave
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