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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:27 pm
Post subject: Roger Ebert Fumble Archived from groups: alt>movies>david-lynch (more info?)
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Hi all
This is my first post here, so please pardon if I'm addressing an
issue long since laid to rest.
Awhile back in the National Post here in Canada, Mr. E. asserted
that there was no definitive precis for Mulholland Drive, and not only
that, somewhat arrogantly (to my mind) warned us plebes not to even
*try*. Something about watching it with 12 million experts in Boulder
Colorado, none of whom could figure it out. They loved it, they just
couldn't figure it out. So they decided Mr Lynch makes films that,
while fun to watch, make no sense.
I beg to differ. MD is *airtight*, and not even non-linear. What do
you think of this:
Diane Selwyn goes to Hollywood, fails as an actress, and puts a hit
on her estranged lover. She then fails in her attempts to convince
herself that she is the victim. With the police knocking at her door,
and guilt knocking at her conscience, she blows her miserable brains
out. Pffft. That's all, folks.
Confusion results from the fact that the film begins with a dream and
segues into flashbacks which explain the dream. It is hinted that this
dream-flashback cycle has been going on for three weeks, during which
time our Diane subsists on nothing but coffee and agonizing. We join
her on her last day, her last attempt to "dream things different".
Remember the old couple at the airport and their wish to see Diane's
name on the big screen. They are the eternal tourists, we the
audience, happy to see someone succeed or fail, long as it makes for
an interesting story. And don't skimp on the gory details.
To me, Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive are like two very similar,
exeedingly beautiful sort of abstract paintings. In the former you
have a man in an imposed prison trying to convince himself he "didn't
do it". In the latter, a woman in a self-imposed prison trying to
convince herself it "wasn't my fault".
Viewed in this simple way, all the wonderfully strange details make
perfect, airtight sense. The man in Winkies in the dream sees the face
of pure evil. In the flashback (reality), what does he see? Diane
plotting murder. It is Diane's dream; this is how she now sees
herself.
I'm going on here, but would just like to point out the interesting
fact that in Mulholland Drive we meet only two "real" people: Diane
and the neighbour she switches apartments with. Every other character
is seen only through Diane's dream or flashbacks.
Again, perhaps all of the above has already been long established in
this most excellent of newsgroups. If so, sorry bout that. Meanwhile I
sure am delighted to have finally found you folks! I'm also interested
in other interpretations, though I realise I'm coming off pretty cocky
self-assured in my own.
Cheers,
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Feb 01, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <64dddc3d.0404062027.5f0b0e42.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
mitchsperkins.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
> Awhile back in the National Post here in Canada, Mr. E. asserted
> that there was no definitive precis for Mulholland Drive, and not only
> that, somewhat arrogantly (to my mind) warned us plebes not to even
> *try*. Something about watching it with 12 million experts in Boulder
> Colorado, none of whom could figure it out. They loved it, they just
> couldn't figure it out. So they decided Mr Lynch makes films that,
> while fun to watch, make no sense.
Roger Ebert is an idiot.
And yes, Mitch, you are right - both Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive
are cinematic masterpieces that anyone with a modicum of insight, let
alone decades worth of "film criticism", should be able to understand.
Jeff >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 12, 2004 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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mitch perkins wrote:
> Certainly in the sense that you "play" all the people in your own
> dream. I think something very real went down though, and we are
> invited to solve a puzzle with a very specific correct answer. For
> instance, "Who the f**k put this tape on my front steps?!" Mystery
> Man. Certainly whoever put the tape there changed Fred's life and
> their action guided all of his subsequent actions. The MM is shown
> doing this quite literally; he even "zaps" the Mustang into life near
> the end of the film (all in Fred's mind of course). It will start when
> he wants it to start.
> Cheers,
> Mitch
Can the videotape not be seen in another way however? Fred remember, doesn't
like video-cameras as he prefers to 'remember things in his own way'. The
videotape could be taken as an intrusion into his own world. A bit like the
man behind winkies, the blue key...no matter how hard he tries to block out
the truth the truth gets through in the end and his world falls in around
him. The mystery man running towards him at the end with the videocamera can
again be viewed in this way...he's letting fred/pete know that he'll have to
face up to what he's done eventually. Thoughts anyone?
--
Andrew >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome <trichome DeleteThis @foobar.com> wrote in message news:<l4Vec.50306$1y1.44140@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
l4Vec.50306$1y1.44140@nwrdny03.gnilink.net
I'm diggin' what yer sayin'...in other words, dare I say it?
"It's been a pleasure talking to you." ~:?)
Of course, that doesn't mean we're *done*. I see we approach these
wonderful films from slightly different angles, and isn't that part of
the beauty of them?
Back to MD. My partner and I watched it again last night. Please
take the following points under consideration. I list them as though
factual for simplicity of presentation only.
The title refers to the location of the party at which Diane is
finally totally humiliated, and settles on murder as her revenge.
The corpse on Diane's bed in her dream doesn't look like anyone in
particular, as much as a cross between Diane and her lover/neighbour.
It is visually (cuts to and from) tied to n/l. Perhaps it represents
the corpse of the love they shared. Interested in other
interperetations.
That blue box in the gun drawer is the exact, unusual colour of the
dream bb.
Real time or freeze frame, you can't miss it. The camera even lingers
on it for a split second; all you need. Stuff like this does not end
up on movie sets by accident, and Lynch is very particular about
colour, especially blue. No big deal, as someone else pointed out;
it's the real life seed of the dream bb. A hope chest, if you will.
The dream ends when the cowboy appears twice (she's done bad) and
with n/l knocking at the door. Diane dons a dirty white housecoat. All
is real time (with one hallucination of Camilla returning after their
"not going to make it easy for you" [red dress] fight) until Diane
climbs topless over the back of the couch to find Camilla. From
thence, all is flash-back until we rejoin Diane in her dirty
housecoat. The attention given earlier to the coffe-maker is
explained; the camera tracks from blue key to coffe cup to Diane
staring at the key. It is the same real time day, only it is now
night. She has been staring at the key all day.
After Diane asks the hitman "what does it open", he laughs and we
find the bum discarding the bb behind Winkies. Then straight to Diane
in her dirty housecoat staring at the key. She knows now what that key
opens. The old couple emerge from the box because it is at this worst
of possible moments that she remembers them and their kind
encouragement.
Freeze frame that bum and take a good look. That is the freakin'
Wicked Witch of the West.
When we round the corner to find the bum, there is fire behind her.
The fire immediately turns to smoke. Fire = life/passion. Smoke =
death. Smoke is also seen creeping up the stairs into Fred Madison's
house. Hyper-fire in the fire place is the passion he needs to murder.
When Diane shoots herself, her room, (Club Silencio) fills with smoke
(death). Her bed post is the microphone on the stand in Club Silencio.
The Blue-Haired Lady? Hmmm, not seeded in any real time event or
flash-back within the movie. Looks like a fairground
gypsy-fortune-teller-in-a-box to me. Everyone's seen one of those;
Diane too?
Cheers,
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Andrew Stirling" <andrewstirling.TakeThisOut@clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1081802038.8792.0.TakeThisOut@echo.uk.clara.net>...
> Can the videotape not be seen in another way however? Fred remember, doesn't
> like video-cameras as he prefers to 'remember things in his own way'. The
> videotape could be taken as an intrusion into his own world. A bit like the
> man behind winkies, the blue key...no matter how hard he tries to block out
> the truth the truth gets through in the end and his world falls in around
> him. The mystery man running towards him at the end with the videocamera can
> again be viewed in this way...he's letting fred/pete know that he'll have to
> face up to what he's done eventually. Thoughts anyone?
I think Fred "hates video cameras" in his mind-world *because* his
wife was in pornos; *because* someone left a video tape of his wife in
a porno on his front steps. I'm sure he didn't hate them *before* this
all went down. Of course, *now* he likes to remember things his own
way because it suits him to forget that he's a murderer.
That said, it still follows that these are indeed intrusions into
his own world. Reminders of what he did, yes.
Also, it's quite humourous that this guy is *running at him with a
video camera*, the one thing he has stated his hatred for!
Notice how nervous Renee is every time they put one of those tapes
in to watch it, or when Fred is questioning her about it. He knows
what is going to be on the one real tape, even if she doesn't. But
she's in *his* world now, and he pastes the guilt on her.
I could be lost in the woods on all this. Nice to explore it with
other interested folks, though.
Cheers,
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 12, 2004 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome wrote:
> In article <1081802038.8792.0 DeleteThis @echo.uk.clara.net>,
> "Andrew Stirling" <andrewstirling DeleteThis @clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Can the videotape not be seen in another way however? Fred remember,
>> doesn't like video-cameras as he prefers to 'remember things in his
>> own way'. The videotape could be taken as an intrusion into his own
>> world. A bit like the man behind winkies, the blue key...no matter
>> how hard he tries to block out the truth the truth gets through in
>> the end and his world falls in around him. The mystery man running
>> towards him at the end with the videocamera can again be viewed in
>> this way...he's letting fred/pete know that he'll have to face up to
>> what he's done eventually. Thoughts anyone?
>
> Yes, I'm all for that perspective on the videotape. I'm not sure
> that Fred would ever have to "face up" to what he's done. He's too
> vain to have any real conscience; so I see the intrusion of truth,
> his true unfavorable character breaking through, as being more like a
> dream corroding, rather than guilt.
>
>
> Trichome
Agreed. By face up though...I meant 'face the consequences'. The fact that
his crime is going to have a punishment.
--
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Since: Oct 31, 2003 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome <trichome RemoveThis @foobar.com> wrote in message news:<Acoec.34891$1y1.9003@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> In article <64dddc3d.0404090022.1fde9873 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
> mitchsperkins RemoveThis @yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>
> > Trichome <trichome RemoveThis @foobar.com> wrote in message
> > news:<s6Zcc.5390$WX.1646@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>...
> >
> > > > Diane Selwyn goes to Hollywood,> > out. Pffft. That's all, folks.
>
> > > I think the story you describe is linear, but it is not the story we
> > > saw. That story did not show Diane going to Hollywood first, that is a
> > > chronological re-construction of the existing narrative.
> >
> > Does it become linear once you know the story, in the sense that
> > you watch her: dream, wake, think, end her life?
>
> Yes, yes. Or in my version, all that is a dream, (the Betty-dream,
> Diane's waking, thinking, committing a dream suicide) enveloped by her
> death, and covering the course and completion of her dream Bardo (or
> in-between time, between death and re-incarnation.).
>
>
> > Do flash-backs, if
> > you know they're flash-backs, define a film as non-linear?
>
The post-dream "flash-backs" (e.g. Camilla and Diane at Diane's place,
the engagement party, diner with hitman) are more like memories rather
than glimpses of the past. Almost certainly some of the content did
not actually happen in Diane's reality, only in her mind (e.g. mystery
blonde kissing Camilla at the party), and inanimate objects in these
scenes reflect Diane's emotional state (e.g. the embellished coffee
mug - SOS). So I'm inclined to see them happening in the present, in
Diane's mind, rather than in the past, in her reality. Ditto the
jitterbug scene, which is more like hypnogogic imagery than an actual
dance contest. If we see it like this, then the whole film is one
uninterrupted stream of consciousness.
Interestingly, there does seem to be a temporal break, when Diane is
making coffee. We jump from her setting up the coffee to some minutes
later when it is ready. However, Diane doesn't seem to have moved in
this time, and might well have zoned out. So I don't think that this
conflicts with the above. >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:34 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome <trichome RemoveThis @foobar.com> wrote in message news:<46efc.56504$QQ6.8849@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> In article <64dddc3d.0404131529.34d16c70 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
> mitchsperkins RemoveThis @yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>
> > Trichome <trichome RemoveThis @foobar.com> wrote in message
> > news:<l4Vec.50306$1y1.44140@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> >
> > l4Vec.50306$1y1.44140@nwrdny03.gnilink.net
> >
>
> > That blue box in the gun drawer is the exact, unusual colour of the
> > dream bb.
> > Real time or freeze frame, you can't miss it. The camera even lingers
> > on it for a split second; all you need. Stuff like this does not end
> > up on movie sets by accident, and Lynch is very particular about
> > colour, especially blue. No big deal, as someone else pointed out;
> > it's the real life seed of the dream bb. A hope chest, if you will.
>
> It's such a tiny split-second. I know something's there, but I don't
> think it was shown nearly long enough for anyone to be expected to draw
> any conclusions. Lynch wouldn't undermine us. Perhaps it was a thread
> he lost track of?
>
> Trichome
Tiny split second or not, the prop master must o.k. everything on
set with the director. Not to seem pedantic. Lynch would never have
allowed some un-related object in that drawer to be the *exact* blue
of the box. *That* would be undermining us, and extremely
un-characteristically sloppy.
When analysing D.L. films, I start from the assumption that although
there are scenes included mainly for the sake of humour, *nothing*
strays from the "blueprint" he has often mentioned. No
"lost-track-of-threads" allowed.
The tiny duration of the glimpse is to me humourous in the sense of
"Oh yeah, you'll be wondering about that blue box. Here it is."
Also, in D.L. films like L.H. and M.D. I believe symbols originate
from the character being portrayed, and not religion, literature,
other films, etc. Eg., the evil witch behind Winkie's is a symbol of
*Diane's* idea of evil, and nothing else. In this case the wicked
witch of the west fits because Diane's head is filled with movie
stuff.
Like Dostoevsky, Lynch likes to "put a skin" around an idea. Like an
abstract painting, the films are largely "about" themselves, i.e the
specific person being portrayed.
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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name_and_address_supplied.DeleteThis@hotmail.com (Name And Address Supplied) wrote in message news:<82c4b49c.0404190811.23b262fa.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
> Trichome <trichome.DeleteThis@foobar.com> wrote in message news:<Acoec.34891$1y1.9003@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> > In article <64dddc3d.0404090022.1fde9873.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
> > mitchsperkins.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
> >
> > > Trichome <trichome.DeleteThis@foobar.com> wrote in message
> > > news:<s6Zcc.5390$WX.1646@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>...
> > >
> > > Do flash-backs, if
> > > you know they're flash-backs, define a film as non-linear?
> >
>
> The post-dream "flash-backs" (e.g. Camilla and Diane at Diane's place,
> the engagement party, diner with hitman) are more like memories rather
> than glimpses of the past.
I'm a little confused by this.
> Almost certainly some of the content did
> not actually happen in Diane's reality, only in her mind (e.g. mystery
> blonde kissing Camilla at the party),
This kiss took place at the party and supplied Diane with an "actor"
for the part of Camilla Rhodes in her dream. It also further fueled
her jealousy.
The brief exchange in Italian between the director and some
offscreen person supplied Diane with her mafia conspiracy theory for
why she didn't get the part in "The Sylvia North Story", whereas it
really was because she didn't cut it.
> and inanimate objects in these
> scenes reflect Diane's emotional state (e.g. the embellished coffee
> mug - SOS). So I'm inclined to see them happening in the present, in
> Diane's mind, rather than in the past, in her reality. Ditto the
> jitterbug scene, which is more like hypnogogic imagery than an actual
> dance contest. If we see it like this, then the whole film is one
> uninterrupted stream of consciousness.
>
> Interestingly, there does seem to be a temporal break, when Diane is
> making coffee. We jump from her setting up the coffee to some minutes
> later when it is ready. However, Diane doesn't seem to have moved in
> this time, and might well have zoned out. So I don't think that this
> conflicts with the above.
If one stream of consciousness, why a pillow at the beginning? Why
"Time to wake up..."? Why dirty housecoat - bunch of past events -
dirty housecoat? Why does hitman have different coloured eyes, then
blue eyes?
Dream - Flashbacks - Suicide. Occam's Razor.
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome <trichome RemoveThis @foobar.com> wrote in message news:<xsYic.33965$2v.26281@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> In article <64dddc3d.0404231034.534fb8cf RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
> mitchsperkins RemoveThis @yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>
>
> Most of the time, I will use the same supreme confidence in Lynch's
> execution of his intentions, to support my own arguments. However, I
> just don't think the box in the drawer is shown too briefly AND it fails
> to draw us into any greater meaning I can detect.
No greater meaning required. Think of the Cowboy; just some goof she
sees for 2 seconds walking through the party . He is given much power
in her dream. The real guy is just what someone here called a "seed"
from reality.
> What does anyone keep in a (blue) box of indeterminant composition in
> their dresser drawer?
Trinkets, jewelry, little mementos of a starry-eyed childhood filled
with hopes and dreams of fame and adulation. It doesn't matter.
> "What is a drawer pull? This drawer pull--why is it featured so
> prominently in a life or in a death of one woman who was caught
> in a web of power? Can a victim of power end in any way connected
> to a drawer pull? How can this be?" - Margaret Lanterman, by DL
What is this?
Later,
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome <trichome RemoveThis @foobar.com> wrote in message news:<I8Yic.36022$635.9209@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> In article <64dddc3d.0404231049.c041c2b RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
> mitchsperkins RemoveThis @yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>
> > Dream - Flashbacks - Suicide. Occam's Razor.
> >
> > Mitch
>
> I'm no programmer, but I'd parse it:
>
> Mulholland Dr.'s Diane (Naomi Watts) is:
>
> {life - death -
> [Tibetan Buddhist Bardo-dream:
> (Dream (positive, composed of ideals) -
> Flashbacks (decaying, composed of her pernicious aspects) -
> Suicide)] -
> Re-incarnation}. - Trichome's MD meta-narrative postulate
>
>
> Trichome
I got a little pompous there. Sorry. Mostly agree with your stuff.
That corpse on Diane's bed has a white band around the wrist. Seems
institutional, like a hospital wristband. Last image of dying mother?
Do we see anyone else with such a thing on them? I wonder if there's
anything there.
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:43 am
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Trichome <trichome.RemoveThis@foobar.com> wrote in message news:<s%8jc.39947$635.32329@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> In article <64dddc3d.0404260118.6cef801f.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
> mitchsperkins.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>
>
> No, not pompous. No accusation on my part. You gave me a chance to
> parse my ideas, showing how all the good commentary written here can be
> true, and my supra-framework can also be of value.
Got it.
> > That corpse on Diane's bed has a white band around the wrist. Seems
> > institutional, like a hospital wristband. Last image of dying mother?
> > Do we see anyone else with such a thing on them? I wonder if there's
> > anything there.
>
> I freeze-framed and stepped through that scene, trying to make out
> the objects with "Diane Selwyn" (Lyssie Powell) on her death bed. For a
> few days, I was convinced that I saw a junkie's rubber tourniquet around
> her arm, and perhaps her "works" as well. Then I decided that I really
> couldn't see anything at all well enough, and so I retracted my
> statement and remain agnostic now as to what that scene displayed.
Me too. 1000 reasons is good stuff. Being Canadian, I won't be able
to help you guys on election day, but many many of us wish you
success.
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Oct 31, 2003 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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mitchsperkins DeleteThis @yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message news:<64dddc3d.0404231049.c041c2b DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> name_and_address_supplied DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Name And Address Supplied) wrote in message news:<82c4b49c.0404190811.23b262fa DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> > Trichome <trichome DeleteThis @foobar.com> wrote in message news:<Acoec.34891$1y1.9003@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
> > > In article <64dddc3d.0404090022.1fde9873 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
> > > mitchsperkins DeleteThis @yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Trichome <trichome DeleteThis @foobar.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:<s6Zcc.5390$WX.1646@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>...
> > > >
> > > > Do flash-backs, if
> > > > you know they're flash-backs, define a film as non-linear?
> > >
> >
> > The post-dream "flash-backs" (e.g. Camilla and Diane at Diane's place,
> > the engagement party, diner with hitman) are more like memories rather
> > than glimpses of the past.
>
> I'm a little confused by this.
>
> > Almost certainly some of the content did
> > not actually happen in Diane's reality, only in her mind (e.g. mystery
> > blonde kissing Camilla at the party),
>
> This kiss took place at the party and supplied Diane with an "actor"
> for the part of Camilla Rhodes in her dream. It also further fueled
> her jealousy.
I'm sure the blonde did appear at the party, and whisper intimitely to
Camilla, but the kiss was a little over the top . . . I'm inclined to
see this as Diane's imagination running wild.
> The brief exchange in Italian between the director and some
> offscreen person supplied Diane with her mafia conspiracy theory for
> why she didn't get the part in "The Sylvia North Story", whereas it
> really was because she didn't cut it.
>
Agreed. But look at Diane's mug, screaming out "SOS". (As an aside,
did you notice that the italian screams "HELP!" in the meeting?).
Perhaps it is only by coincidence that the stylised mug echoes her
feelings at that moment. But it is my impression that these are
memories, and are far from objective.
> > and inanimate objects in these
> > scenes reflect Diane's emotional state (e.g. the embellished coffee
> > mug - SOS). So I'm inclined to see them happening in the present, in
> > Diane's mind, rather than in the past, in her reality. Ditto the
> > jitterbug scene, which is more like hypnogogic imagery than an actual
> > dance contest. If we see it like this, then the whole film is one
> > uninterrupted stream of consciousness.
> >
> > Interestingly, there does seem to be a temporal break, when Diane is
> > making coffee. We jump from her setting up the coffee to some minutes
> > later when it is ready. However, Diane doesn't seem to have moved in
> > this time, and might well have zoned out. So I don't think that this
> > conflicts with the above.
>
> If one stream of consciousness, why a pillow at the beginning? Why
> "Time to wake up..."? Why dirty housecoat - bunch of past events -
> dirty housecoat?
I'm not sure I follow . . .
>Why does hitman have different coloured eyes, then
> blue eyes?
>
I hadn't noticed - will have to go and have another look.
> Dream - Flashbacks - Suicide. Occam's Razor.
>
Uh, yes, exactly . . . >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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name_and_address_supplied.DeleteThis@hotmail.com (Name And Address Supplied) wrote in message news:<82c4b49c.0405050826.503c476b.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
> mitchsperkins.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message news:<64dddc3d.0404231049.c041c2b.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > This kiss took place at the party and supplied Diane with an "actor"
> > for the part of Camilla Rhodes in her dream. It also further fueled
> > her jealousy.
>
> I'm sure the blonde did appear at the party, and whisper intimitely to
> Camilla, but the kiss was a little over the top . . . I'm inclined to
> see this as Diane's imagination running wild.
I'll go with that. D. exaggerates her own misfortune...
>
> > The brief exchange in Italian between the director and some
> > offscreen person supplied Diane with her mafia conspiracy theory for
> > why she didn't get the part in "The Sylvia North Story", whereas it
> > really was because she didn't cut it.
> >
>
> Agreed. But look at Diane's mug, screaming out "SOS". (As an aside,
> did you notice that the italian screams "HELP!" in the meeting?).
> Perhaps it is only by coincidence that the stylised mug echoes her
> feelings at that moment. But it is my impression that these are
> memories, and are far from objective.
Far from objective, yes. I see flashbacks because of the filmic
technique involved; things go fuzzy and snap back into focus at a
different time. BTW, I think Lynch is the first director to use *dust
on the rear lens element* (!) to convey a character's emotional state!
(intro to party).
> >
> > If one stream of consciousness, why a pillow at the beginning? Why
> > "Time to wake up..."? Why dirty housecoat - bunch of past events -
> > dirty housecoat?
>
> I'm not sure I follow . . .
If all were one stream of consciousness, how to account for some of
the physical changes? Are they not guide posts to various states of
D.? (sleeping, waking etc.)
>
> >Why does hitman have different coloured eyes, then
> > blue eyes?
> >
>
> I hadn't noticed - will have to go and have another look.
>
> > Dream - Flashbacks - Suicide. Occam's Razor.
> >
>
> Uh, yes, exactly . . .
Well, I was a little emphatic there, wasn't I? ~:?)
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 10:39 am
Post subject: Re: Roger Ebert Fumble [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Trichome <prophit1970.TakeThisOut@ver-EYE-zon.net> wrote in message news:<prophit1970-2D2B4B.20370216052004.TakeThisOut@news.verizon.net>...
>> > Far from objective, yes. I see flashbacks because of the filmic
> > technique involved; things go fuzzy and snap back into focus at a
> > different time. BTW, I think Lynch is the first director to use *dust
> > on the rear lens element* (!) to convey a character's emotional state!
> > (intro to party).
>
> Since you have an eye for these things, is that the same technical
> effect as the blurring during the masterbation?
I think so. Also used to show Pete Dayton's world breaking up. A
visual equivalent of the mind "travelling" to a different place.
The story goes Lynch wanted out of focus. They weren't getting what
he wanted. A camera assistant said "only way to get more out of focus
is to take the lens off." So they did. A first as far as I know.
BTW, A few years ago, our heads filled with Lynch, we made a little
feature on super 8 film called "Sleep Always"
www.friendlyfirefilms.ca
Not trying to sell you a copy; just thought you might be interested.
Cheers,
Mitch >> Stay informed about: Roger Ebert Fumble |
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