SHOW BOAT (1929)

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:23:46 GMT, David Weiner <djwein.DeleteThis@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>Finally watched the 1929 SHOW BOAT - I was puzzled at the inclusion of
>part of the talkie prologue with Helen Morgan, Aunt Jemima, etc. I
>thought this was a two-reel presentation, but they seemed to include
>only one and just the sound portion at that, no picture. Doesn't some
>of the visual element for the prologue exist? I've even seen a bit of
>it in documentaries. Is Turmer missing these elements?
>
>Dave Weiner

Tess Gardella sings two numbers in the Criterion LD supplement that
don't appear in the MGM/UA box. Helen Morgan also sang stuff. I
don't know if this survive or not.
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

David Weiner wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Finally watched the 1929 SHOW BOAT - I was puzzled at the inclusion of
> part of the talkie prologue with Helen Morgan, Aunt Jemima, etc. I
> thought this was a two-reel presentation, but they seemed to include
> only one and just the sound portion at that, no picture. Doesn't some
> of the visual element for the prologue exist? I've even seen a bit of
> it in documentaries. Is Turmer missing these elements?
>
> Dave Weiner

For a long time the whole film was thought to be lost, so I guess we
ought to feel lucky to have this much.

Ken Bloom's HOLLYWOOD SONG index describes the "brief prologue directed
by Arch B. Heath. After an introduction by Universal chief Carl Laemmle
and SHOW BOAT's Broadway producer Florenz Ziegfeld, members of the New
York company were seen singing their songs." Bloom believed that only
the Tess Gardella (Aunt Jemima) sequences survived. He lists her (as
Queenie) singing "Hey Feller" and "C'mon Folks"; Helen Morgan singing
"Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man" and "Bill"; Jules Bledsoe singin "Ol' Man
River."

What we have from the TCM presentation is the soundtrack of an overture,
an introduction "on behalf of Mr. Carl Laemmle", "Hey Feller", "Bill",
and the introduction of Jules Bledsoe, but no Ol' Man River.

I don't know if they limited their presentation to fit into a two-hour
slot, or if these were the only parts that survive in completely
playable tracks.

In any event, Helen Morgan's "Bill" from 1929 is worth a month's
subscription to cable or satellite to get TCM, all by itself. She sings
it in the original key of Bb, as in the published vocal score of the
stage show. By 1936 (in the James Whale film) her voice has been
deepened and her breath control affected by age and alcohol, and she
sings it there in G (a minor third lower). Both versions are
characterful and wistful, and clearly neither is "operatic" in quality,
but the earlier one sounds as if it might well have carried in the
Ziegfeld Theatre, and the 1936 one is pretty clearly dependent on the
recording-studio microphone.

I wouldn't part with either one, of course. Thanks to TCM for showing both!

-Neil Midkiff
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

"David Weiner" <djwein RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:l82bm0hbgrjc46b774qnfhv3el2kbi0v8i@4ax.com...
> Hey all,
>
> Finally watched the 1929 SHOW BOAT - I was puzzled at the inclusion of
> part of the talkie prologue with Helen Morgan, Aunt Jemima, etc. I
> thought this was a two-reel presentation, but they seemed to include
> only one and just the sound portion at that, no picture. Doesn't some
> of the visual element for the prologue exist? I've even seen a bit of
> it in documentaries. Is Turmer missing these elements?
>
> Dave Weiner

The visual elements for the two Aunt Jemina numbers definitely exist - and
I've heard rumors about *some* of the Morgan footage surviving. To my
knowledge that's it - although I belive most if not all of the sound for the
prologue survives.
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

>She sings
>it in the original key of Bb, as in the published vocal score of the
>stage show. By 1936

(Big Smile!)

How lovely to learn something new about a beloved production that I'd likely
never encounter elsewhere! Thank you, Neil!

It's insightful and intriguing posts like this that makes the occasional
headaches, cringes and winces caused by this newsgroup utterly worthwhile and
inconsequential by comparison.

Wouldn't have it any other way. :)

jeff
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

"John Aldrich @earthlink.net>" <jazzman56<nospam> wrote in message
news:lnibm0hjgpr6uomspa93dthrfg1jd24nlg@4ax.com...

> I've heard Miles Kreuger (Mr. Show Boat) say that there is addition
> 1929 material extant that Turner does not have...and that they could
> get it if they were interested enough. I don't know all the details.

Miles showed me his print years ago (and before it surfaced on THE COMPLETE
SHOW BOAT laser disc.) I don't remember anything specific in his version
compared to the laser print - and Miles' version had no soundtrack at all,
so the dialogue sequences seemed even more interminable.

Perhaps some of the early scenes, including the melodramas performed on the
show boat, went on a bit longer but I do not believe there is anything
relevatory to discover.

It would be fun to compare and contrast them now, however.
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

"Neil Midkiff" <nmidkiff.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:_%i9d.25596$QJ3.14258@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

> In any event, Helen Morgan's "Bill" from 1929 is worth a month's
> subscription to cable or satellite to get TCM, all by itself. She sings
> it in the original key of Bb, as in the published vocal score of the
> stage show. By 1936 (in the James Whale film) her voice has been
> deepened and her breath control affected by age and alcohol, and she
> sings it there in G (a minor third lower). Both versions are
> characterful and wistful, and clearly neither is "operatic" in quality,
> but the earlier one sounds as if it might well have carried in the
> Ziegfeld Theatre, and the 1936 one is pretty clearly dependent on the
> recording-studio microphone.

Every time I hear this earlier recording, I always think of SINGIN' IN THE
RAIN when Helen sings "he cahn't play golf, or tennis or polo..."
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

Jeff NY wrote:

>>She sings
>>it in the original key of Bb, as in the published vocal score of the
>>stage show. By 1936
>
>
> (Big Smile!)
>
> How lovely to learn something new about a beloved production that I'd likely
> never encounter elsewhere! Thank you, Neil!
>
> It's insightful and intriguing posts like this that makes the occasional
> headaches, cringes and winces caused by this newsgroup utterly worthwhile and
> inconsequential by comparison.
>
> Wouldn't have it any other way. :)
>
> jeff

I'm glad that, with this post, I atoned somewhat for boring your head
off with astronomical detail about satellites and solar interference.

"Bill" is one of my special favorite songs. I've played it on stage in
a production of SHOW BOAT -- usually the pit pianist takes over after
the first two bars of intro, but in this case, portraying "Jake" the
piano player, I got to accompany our Julie all the way through. I've
also accompanied Lara Cazalet, P. G. Wodehouse's great-granddaughter, in
the original 1918 version of the song, deleted from the score of "Oh,
Lady! Lady!!"

But that's the great thing about the crowd here: we all have special
knowledge and perspectives to share on the world of classic films.

I hope we all will respond to the "most memorable moviegoing
experiences" thread; it helps understand what events have shaped our
views on movies.

-Neil Midkiff
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

>
> For a long time the whole film was thought to be lost, so I guess we
> ought to feel lucky to have this much.
>
> Ken Bloom's HOLLYWOOD SONG index describes the "brief prologue directed
> by Arch B. Heath. After an introduction by Universal chief Carl Laemmle
> and SHOW BOAT's Broadway producer Florenz Ziegfeld, members of the New
> York company were seen singing their songs." Bloom believed that only
> the Tess Gardella (Aunt Jemima) sequences survived. He lists her (as
> Queenie) singing "Hey Feller" and "C'mon Folks"; Helen Morgan singing
> "Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man" and "Bill"; Jules Bledsoe singin "Ol' Man
> River."
>
> What we have from the TCM presentation is the soundtrack of an overture,
> an introduction "on behalf of Mr. Carl Laemmle", "Hey Feller", "Bill",
> and the introduction of Jules Bledsoe, but no Ol' Man River.
>
> I don't know if they limited their presentation to fit into a two-hour
> slot, or if these were the only parts that survive in completely
> playable tracks.
>
But a BIOGRAPHY episode on Ziegfeld actually showed footage of the
prologues, with the cast for "Ol' Man River" and Helen Morgan sitting
at a table to do her "Bill" song. And I thought I saw a clip of Tess
Gardella's "C'mon Folks" somewhere.

A.Gerard
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

>'m glad that, with this post, I atoned somewhat for boring your head
>off with astronomical detail about satellites and solar interference.

It wasn't a case of me being bored! Rather, it was just well beyond my mental
capabilities to understand virtually anything that involves astronomy or
calculating beyond the 5X table!

jeff
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929) 

>"Bill" is one of my special favorite songs.

I think this is also the emotional centerpiece of James Whale's film. The
combination of Morgan's voice, Baravelle and Bennett's exquisite
orchestrations, and the amazing cutting (the sitting scrub woman wiping her
tears is one of the great visual moments in film - totally understated but what
a story it tells) this scene really packs a wallop.

The Radio Preview for the 1936 version includes a bit of the deleted "Why Do I
Love You." I think it was inspired to cut this number. While very much
appropriate for the stage musical, I think it would have negatively affected
the spiral drive of the last third of the picture.

And, I'm sorry, for me there will only be ONE Cap'n Andy - Charles Winninger.
 >> Stay informed about: SHOW BOAT (1929)