SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK?

In message <c8t9kk$16e$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Alex
<news DeleteThis @al-net.demon.cNOSPAMo.uk> writes
>> Are there any dual layer disks available anywhere in the uk?
>>
>I heard that the disks wont be available for some time after the writers !?!

Yes, I saw the bigpockets ad for the dual layer writers and noted that
no media was available.
A mate did some searching and came up with info that it was probably
going to be some months before the media is readily available.
I'm sure he said they were going to be 6-8 quid each as well.

Although of course that's to be expected as I can still remember paying
70 quid for a box of 10 CDRs !!!

Give it a little while longer .........

--
__________________________________________________
Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to:
'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol
followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot
followed by 'net'
__________________________________________________
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

"David Longley" <David RemoveThis @longley.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:J7Y5BJPUFgsAFw45@longley.demon.co.uk...
> I know the SONY Double Layer DVD internal ATA Writer - DRU-700A is

All I have to do now is laugh at all those lamers on usenet who said it
wasn't possible to have dual layer DVD-R's when I said a long while back it
was. Eat humble pie and taste the technology. Thankyou.

But now after spending £190 on a DVD writer before they went to ridiculous
prices like £90, and now £40, I'm going to be considering getting a double
layer.

This is the first I've heard of double layer DVD writers so thanks for the
pointer. Will these play on set-top DVD players like DVD-R's do or is it
more propietary technology you'll have to buy a special player for?!
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

In message <2hf2rnFbrmjjU1.RemoveThis@uni-berlin.de>, tHatDudeUK
<randomcharsforspammers.RemoveThis@btinternet.com> writes
>All I have to do now is laugh at all those lamers on usenet who said it
>wasn't possible to have dual layer DVD-R's when I said a long while back it
>was. Eat humble pie and taste the technology. Thankyou.

Its like saying 'of course you can get 100 terra byte hard disk the size
of a 20p piece you idiot....'
And then in a few years saying 'see .... told you so... you lamers...'
;-)



--
__________________________________________________
Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to:
'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol
followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot
followed by 'net'
__________________________________________________
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

"Gareth Jones" <usenet.RemoveThis@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:S5cn7mC1umsAFw7a@nospam.demon.co.uk...
> Its like saying 'of course you can get 100 terra byte hard disk the size
> of a 20p piece you idiot....'
> And then in a few years saying 'see .... told you so... you lamers...'
> ;-)

Not at all. It was a debate on the capabilities of the capabilities of
optical DVD technology, not a statement that the technology already existed.
:) People believed it was impossible to have a dual-layer dvd recordable, I
argued otherwise. But then again I guess the same would have happened before
DVD writers came along. People would have told you that because a DVD isn't
the same as a CD you can't have DVD writers.
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

On Mon, 24 May 2004 23:20:25 +0100, tHatDudeUK wrote:

>
> "Gareth Jones" <usenet RemoveThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:S5cn7mC1umsAFw7a@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> Its like saying 'of course you can get 100 terra byte hard disk the size
>> of a 20p piece you idiot....'
>> And then in a few years saying 'see .... told you so... you lamers...'
>> ;-)
>
> Not at all. It was a debate on the capabilities of the capabilities of
> optical DVD technology, not a statement that the technology already existed.
> :) People believed it was impossible to have a dual-layer dvd recordable, I
> argued otherwise. But then again I guess the same would have happened before
> DVD writers came along. People would have told you that because a DVD isn't
> the same as a CD you can't have DVD writers.

Lots of people in the know where saying that a dual layer anything
recorder was not possible. It is only because Philips decided to take
a massive multi million dollar two year gamble to have a try regardless
that it exists at all. When they started out they didn't even know
how they where going to do it.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 2004 23:20:25 +0100, tHatDudeUK wrote:
>
>>
>> "Gareth Jones" <usenet.RemoveThis@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:S5cn7mC1umsAFw7a@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>> Its like saying 'of course you can get 100 terra byte hard disk the
>>> size of a 20p piece you idiot....'
>>> And then in a few years saying 'see .... told you so... you
>>> lamers...' ;-)
>>
>> Not at all. It was a debate on the capabilities of the capabilities
>> of optical DVD technology, not a statement that the technology
>> already existed. :) People believed it was impossible to have a
>> dual-layer dvd recordable, I argued otherwise. But then again I
>> guess the same would have happened before DVD writers came along.
>> People would have told you that because a DVD isn't the same as a CD
>> you can't have DVD writers.
>
> Lots of people in the know where saying that a dual layer anything
> recorder was not possible. It is only because Philips decided to take
> a massive multi million dollar two year gamble to have a try
> regardless that it exists at all. When they started out they didn't
> even know how they where going to do it.


In that case - how come it's as simple as using a firmware hack on some
single layer drives? They embedded this multi-million dollar technology to
lie dormant in single layer drives?

Just curious.
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

"Jonathan Buzzard" <jonathan.RemoveThis@uk.me.buzzard> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.25.21.26.13.270443@uk.me.buzzard...
> Lots of people in the know where saying that a dual layer anything
> recorder was not possible. It is only because Philips decided to take
> a massive multi million dollar two year gamble to have a try regardless
> that it exists at all. When they started out they didn't even know
> how they where going to do it.

Anyone with a mind and the resources would be able to find a way. Perhaps
use a first layer affected by a high power laser but unaffected by a low
power one, then a second affected by a low power laser hut not a high one.
Or use one with electromagnetic properties and the other a simple burn
layer. All this needs time and money to test and re-test etc but in essence
it's quite simple. You just need to find the appropriate materials to do the
job, and ensure through thorough testing that they work and remain stable
over time.

Who needs to be "in the know" to figure that out. "Lots of people in the
know" are obviously a bit dim and not scientifically minded. I know some
things are impossible but a Dual layer DVD-R obviously clearly WAS NOT
impossible given today's technology.
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

"ThePunisher" <thepunisher.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1085521380.17272.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.uk.clara.net...
> You can laugh at me cause I was one off those people.

Hehe, sorry :-D
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

"Gregory" <gm267NO.TakeThisOut@SPAMcam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:c90fgb$s3j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> In that case - how come it's as simple as using a firmware hack on some
> single layer drives? They embedded this multi-million dollar technology to
> lie dormant in single layer drives?

Interesting. Any info on which drives in particular? I'd guess perhaps the
NEC ones?!
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

"tHatDudeUK" <randomcharsforspammers.TakeThisOut@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:2hj658Fdmb4tU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Anyone with a mind and the resources would be able to find a way. Perhaps
> use a first layer affected by a high power laser but unaffected by a low
> power one,

And how would you effectively do this, how would you be able to make a head
that can distiguish between which layers
the laser is pointing it?

Then you've got to remember that the disk needs to play in a standard DVD
player.

> then a second affected by a low power laser hut not a high one.
> Or use one with electromagnetic properties and the other a simple burn
> layer.

How would you produce a head? (remembering amongst other things there is a
weight restriction)
How would you produce the disks?
How would you be able to read these in any other type of drive?
You may as well be advocating making a high capacity Jaz drive and
pretending it's a DVD.

> All this needs time and money to test and re-test etc but in essence
> it's quite simple. You just need to find the appropriate materials to do
the
> job, and ensure through thorough testing that they work and remain stable
> over time.

Simple enough for MEI and Sony to build consortiums with other very big
named companies and spend billions of dollars
(and I do mean billions) On trying to develop
DVDs/DVDr's/HDVDs/HDVDrs/SD-DVDs/DL-DVDs and the mechanisms to produce and
access them, with results that are only too familiar.
>
> Who needs to be "in the know" to figure that out. "Lots of people in the
> know" are obviously a bit dim and not scientifically minded. I know some
> things are impossible but a Dual layer DVD-R obviously clearly WAS NOT
> impossible given today's technology.
>
With that much money, surely everyone can't be Dim.
LEts see your design for a manufacture process for a DL-DVD?
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

In article <c90fgb$s3j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Gregory
<gm267NO RemoveThis @SPAMcam.ac.uk> writes
>Jonathan Buzzard wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 May 2004 23:20:25 +0100, tHatDudeUK wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Gareth Jones" <usenet RemoveThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:S5cn7mC1umsAFw7a@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>>> Its like saying 'of course you can get 100 terra byte hard disk the
>>>> size of a 20p piece you idiot....'
>>>> And then in a few years saying 'see .... told you so... you
>>>> lamers...' ;-)
>>>
>>> Not at all. It was a debate on the capabilities of the capabilities
>>> of optical DVD technology, not a statement that the technology
>>> already existed. :) People believed it was impossible to have a
>>> dual-layer dvd recordable, I argued otherwise. But then again I
>>> guess the same would have happened before DVD writers came along.
>>> People would have told you that because a DVD isn't the same as a CD
>>> you can't have DVD writers.
>>
>> Lots of people in the know where saying that a dual layer anything
>> recorder was not possible. It is only because Philips decided to take
>> a massive multi million dollar two year gamble to have a try
>> regardless that it exists at all. When they started out they didn't
>> even know how they where going to do it.
>
>
>In that case - how come it's as simple as using a firmware hack on some
>single layer drives? They embedded this multi-million dollar technology to
>lie dormant in single layer drives?
>
>Just curious.
>
>

So am I. Prima facie it would seem that the hardware is already there,
it's the media which is critical, and the trick is in the programming of
the laser to work at different power. I'm speculating of course, but if
"standard" DVD writers such as the 2500 can be flashed, it certainly
looks that way. What's the betting that the money went into the media
development and that the drive focus is a bit of a "scam"?
--
David Longley
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:57:59 +0100, Gregory wrote:

[SNIP]

>
> In that case - how come it's as simple as using a firmware hack on some
> single layer drives? They embedded this multi-million dollar technology to
> lie dormant in single layer drives?
>

Two reasons, it is a firmware hack for a very recent drive, not a two
year old Pioneer. Second most of the cleverness has gone into the
blank disk rather than the drive itself.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK? 

On Wed, 26 May 2004 10:25:58 +0100, tHatDudeUK wrote:

>
> "Jonathan Buzzard" <jonathan.DeleteThis@uk.me.buzzard> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.05.25.21.26.13.270443@uk.me.buzzard...
>> Lots of people in the know where saying that a dual layer anything
>> recorder was not possible. It is only because Philips decided to take
>> a massive multi million dollar two year gamble to have a try regardless
>> that it exists at all. When they started out they didn't even know
>> how they where going to do it.
>
> Anyone with a mind and the resources would be able to find a way.

You may have a mind to cool something to a temperature of -1 Kelvin.
It does not matter if you have 100 times the wealth of Bill Gates
what you would be setting out to achieve is simply impossible.

Alternatively you might be trying to build a space elevator. This might
just be possible withing the laws of physics. However at the moment
we have not made "unobtanium" (a currently mythical material that has
sufficient tensile strength to make a space elevator). We know that
there are a few chemical bonds that individually have sufficient
strength, but turning that into a material with lengths of thousands
of kilometres could turn out to be an impossible goal no matter how
many resources you throw at the problem.

> Perhaps use a first layer affected by a high power laser but unaffected by a low
> power one, then a second affected by a low power laser hut not a high one.
> Or use one with electromagnetic properties and the other a simple burn
> layer. All this needs time and money to test and re-test etc but in essence
> it's quite simple. You just need to find the appropriate materials to do the
> job, and ensure through thorough testing that they work and remain stable
> over time.

And those materials are? When Philips decided to take a gamble on a
dual layer recordable DVD these materials simple did not exist, and there
was no guarantee that suitable materials could be developed. The informed
opinion was that suitable materials where unlikely to exist, and if they
did they would not be economic for a consumer level device. In this case
informed opinion is the people with over a decades experience in the
development of materials for optical disks.

> Who needs to be "in the know" to figure that out. "Lots of people in the
> know" are obviously a bit dim and not scientifically minded. I know some
> things are impossible but a Dual layer DVD-R obviously clearly WAS NOT
> impossible given today's technology.

Given todays technology it is possible. When Philips decided to take the
gamble it decidedly was not possible. My understanding is that a product
has been developed far quicker than Philips anticipated as well.

If dual layer recordable DVD's are so dam easy why have they not been
available from day one?

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195
 >> Stay informed about: SONY Double Layer DVD Writer - DRX-700UL External UK?