Sly on Charlie

"Rocky was the slight embodiment of The Little Tramp."

I don't know, to me this is like saying Soupy Sales is the slight
embodiment of John Gielgud.

Chaplin had more talent and originality in his fingernail than Stallone
has in his whole body. For him to compare the character of Rocky to the
Little Tramp is not only egotistical, it's beyond ludicrous.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

Constance Kuriyama wrote:
> "Candace" (ulysses@mscomm.com) writes:
> > "Rocky was the slight embodiment of The Little Tramp."
> >
> > I don't know, to me this is like saying Soupy Sales is the slight
> > embodiment of John Gielgud.
> >
> > Chaplin had more talent and originality in his fingernail than Stallone
> > has in his whole body. For him to compare the character of Rocky to the
> > Little Tramp is not only egotistical, it's beyond ludicrous.
>
> _Rocky_ is a latter day "boxing picture," with Rocky as the underdog.
> I can see some affinity there because of Chaplin's interest in boxing
> and his championing of underdogs.
>
> I doubt that he would have felt quite as positive about Stallone in
> his Rambo phase, or that Stallone was thinking about his admiration
> for Chaplin at that point.
>
I dunno -- I think Chaplin in his prime could have had a lot of fun
doing a parody of Rambo. :)

Tom Moran
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

On 21 Dec 2006 18:00:28 -0800, "Candace" <ulysses.DeleteThis@mscomm.com> wrote:

>"Rocky was the slight embodiment of The Little Tramp."
>
>I don't know, to me this is like saying Soupy Sales is the slight
>embodiment of John Gielgud.
>
>Chaplin had more talent and originality in his fingernail than Stallone
>has in his whole body. For him to compare the character of Rocky to the
>Little Tramp is not only egotistical, it's beyond ludicrous.

He can't say he was inspired by Chaplin unless he's as good as
Chaplin? That's silly.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

SS borrowed a lot.....the rest, he just stole.


mlanoue.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> I just watch Rocky the other day for the first time all the way
> through. Readfing this, and then thinking about that tiny dumpy
> apartment Rocky lived in definitely suggests Sly had the tramp in the
> back of his mind at least some of the time.
>
>
> Feuillade wrote:
> > Sylvester Stallone is doing a long series of Q&As about his new film
> > "Rocky Balboa" and his entire film career on Ain't it Cool News.
> >
> > Believe it or not, he gets onto the subject of Chaplin.
> >
> > Here's the call-and-response:
> >
> > 6. Sly-
> >
> > In "Remembering Charlie," Jerry Epstein's book on Charlie Chaplin, you
> > are mentioned quite extensively. In fact "Rocky" was one of the last
> > films Charlie ever saw. In the book Mr. Epstein says you were never
> > able to comment on your appreciation for Chaplin's films, although he
> > says you were a huge fan and had hoped to "have an audience with the
> > great maestro." Could you tell us a bit about your relationship with
> > Charlie and the effect he had on your career?
> >
> > Eric Paul Erickson
> > Chicago, IL
> >
> > I was scheduled to see Charlie Chaplin, but I froze myself out of that
> > by, believe it or not, being too nervous, like I did when I was suppose
> > to meet Elvis. I love Charlie Chaplin. I borrowed the hat idea from
> > Charlie Chaplin and always pictured (in a urban, concrete, trashy way)
> > that Rocky was the slight embodiment of The Little Tramp.
> >
> >
> > Intreesting, eh?
> >
> > Tom Moran
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

"Candace" (ulysses@mscomm.com) writes:
> "Rocky was the slight embodiment of The Little Tramp."
>
> I don't know, to me this is like saying Soupy Sales is the slight
> embodiment of John Gielgud.
>
> Chaplin had more talent and originality in his fingernail than Stallone
> has in his whole body. For him to compare the character of Rocky to the
> Little Tramp is not only egotistical, it's beyond ludicrous.

_Rocky_ is a latter day "boxing picture," with Rocky as the underdog.
I can see some affinity there because of Chaplin's interest in boxing
and his championing of underdogs.

I doubt that he would have felt quite as positive about Stallone in
his Rambo phase, or that Stallone was thinking about his admiration
for Chaplin at that point.

Connie K.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

Thank you.

As for my diatribe being "silly," I guess that's the case if you think
the character of Rocky Balboa resembles The Little Tramp in any minute
fashion. The comparison should insult people who love Charlie.

Let's say someone like Jerry Lewis claimed he modeled one of his
character on The Little Tramp. I would recoil at that as well, but at
least Lewis was slight of build, a comedian and someone who did
physical comedy quite well. The similarities in a broad sense do exist
and Jerry Lewis would not be laughed out of the room by making the
comparison.

Stallone will be laughed out of the room. There are no similarities
between Rocky Balboa and The Little Tramp. One is a thing of genius,
the other is a big blob jogging up the stairs in a sweat-stained
jumpsuit.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

On 22 Dec 2006 08:13:16 -0800, "Candace" <ulysses RemoveThis @mscomm.com> wrote:

>Thank you.
>
>As for my diatribe being "silly," I guess that's the case if you think
>the character of Rocky Balboa resembles The Little Tramp in any minute
>fashion. The comparison should insult people who love Charlie.
>
>Let's say someone like Jerry Lewis claimed he modeled one of his
>character on The Little Tramp. I would recoil at that as well, but at
>least Lewis was slight of build, a comedian and someone who did
>physical comedy quite well. The similarities in a broad sense do exist
>and Jerry Lewis would not be laughed out of the room by making the
>comparison.
>
>Stallone will be laughed out of the room. There are no similarities
>between Rocky Balboa and The Little Tramp. One is a thing of genius,
>the other is a big blob jogging up the stairs in a sweat-stained
>jumpsuit.

He didn't say he copied, he was inspired by. There are plenty of
similarities between Rocky and the Tramp. They don't have to have the
same build, the same costume, and the same story to have similarities.
For example, the inspiration could show through in the character's
reaction to authority.

It would be insulting if Stallone said his creation was as good as
Chaplin's, or that he out-did him, but he didn't. He was rather
humble (especially for Stallone) in his comments and was obviously
sincere. Believe me, I'm not a fan of Stallone's, and I've never even
seen a complete Rocky film (or any Rambo film for that matter). But
what I've seen of the first Rocky film I can see what he means about
the inspiration.

Jackie Chan makes a big point about being inspired by Buster Keaton,
yet their costumes, movies, stunts, etc. are very different. When you
watch his films you can see the inspiration, but they're not copies of
Keaton films.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

I could care less if a buffoon like Sly Stallone is inspired by Chaplin
or not, that's not the salient point. This thread has morphed into
something that has no basis in what Stallone really said or my
castigation of it. Once again, the actual quote attributed to Stallone
is this:

"I always pictured that Rocky was the slight embodiment of The Little
Tramp."

It's immaterial whether Rocky Balboa is "underprivileged" or anything
else that supposedly bears resemblance to the Tramp. I can't speak
about the character of Rocky because I saw the original Rocky once in
1976 and (thankfully) avoided the 17 sequels since the first film. One
viewing was enough, believe me.

I find it typically arrogant of Stallone to compare his Rocky character
to arguably the greatest character ever to appear in film. That is what
he did. You guys can go on an on making comparisons between Rocky and
the Little Tramp or defending this self-absorbed steroid-ridden bomb.

FACTS: The Little Tramp is a work of genius, created by a genius.

Is Rocky a work of genius? Is Stallone a genius?

Judging by the tone of this thread, I'm sure 20 people will crawl out
of the woodwork defending Stallone's creativity and comparing his
intellect to Newton. I would expect this fawning over Sly on a Sly
Forum, not a CC one!
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

It's not the first time Stallone has peddled his "Rocky and The Little
Tramp" comparison. He was doing this 30 years ago when he said:

""Rocky is going to be a tough act to follow," he said. "I think he is
the 1970's answer to Charlie Chaplin's tramp. He gets kicked around
but he finally shuffles off down the road on his own."

http://www.totalrocky.com/articles/rockyroad.html
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

Candace wrote:

>Stallone will be laughed out of the room.
>There are no similarities between Rocky
>Balboa and The Little Tramp. One is a
>thing of genius, the other is a big blob
>jogging up the stairs in a sweat-stained
>jumpsuit.

Rocky Balboa can be a figure of pathos
as well as a "blob." I saw ROCKY BALBOA on Wednesday, and admire
the film. There are even some Chaplinesque supporting characters,
such as a gamine with whom Rocky
has a chaste romance. The movie ends
with a "farewell" effect not unlike
MODERN TIMES.

(The set that comprises "Adrian's"
restaurant which Rocky named
after his late wife is actually the
Victor Cafe, one of my South Philly
destinations for the last 20 years.)

i have to say that Stallone has become
a serious film-maker and that this
ROCKY doesn't have the cartoonish
quality of the several sequels. Producing,
writing, directing, and being the sole
star of a film is also a Chaplin-type
feat.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

>FACTS: The Little Tramp is a work of genius, created by a genius.
>
>Is Rocky a work of genius? Is Stallone a genius?

What does quality have to do with it? Did I miss somewhere that
Stallone said he was as good as Chaplin? Do people EVER meet the
quality of those who inspired them?

>Judging by the tone of this thread, I'm sure 20 people will crawl out
>of the woodwork defending Stallone's creativity and comparing his
>intellect to Newton. I would expect this fawning over Sly on a Sly
>Forum, not a CC one!

Let me repeat, for the hard of reading: I do not like Stallone's
films. I think I've only seen one in its entirety, and I'm not even
sure about that, as I can't recall what it was. All I'm saying is
that I'm not outraged that he says he was inspired by the Tramp or
thinks there's a little bit of the Tramp in Rocky. How much of Dan
Leno was in Chaplin? He was an inspiration to Chaplin. Perhaps there
are Dan Leno fans who are outraged that Chaplin would put himself in
the same sentence as Dan.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

ulysses DeleteThis @mscomm.com (Candace)
wrote:

>I could care less if a buffoon like Sly
>Stallone is inspired by Chaplin or not,
>that's not the salient point. This thread
>has morphed into something that has no
>basis in what Stallone really said or my
>castigation of it. Once again, the actual
>quote attributed to Stallone is this:


>"I always pictured that Rocky was the
>slight embodiment of The Little Tramp." >It's immaterial whether Rocky
Balboa is
>"underprivileged" or anything else that
>supposedly bears resemblance to the
>Tramp. I can't speak about the character
>of Rocky because I saw the original
>Rocky once in 1976 and (thankfully)
>avoided the 17 sequels since the first
>film. One viewing was enough, believe
>me.

Hey, even Pauline Kael liked the original
ROCKY!

i think you should give this one a chance.

>I find it typically arrogant of Stallone to
>compare his Rocky character to arguably
>the greatest character ever to appear in
>film. That is what he did. You guys can
>go on an on making comparisons
>between Rocky and the Little Tramp or
>defending this self-absorbed
>steroid-ridden bomb.

>FACTS: The Little Tramp is a work of
>genius, created by a genius.

>Is Rocky a work of genius? Is Stallone a
>genius?

I don't think he would say he is.


>Judging by the tone of this thread, I'm
>sure 20 people will crawl out of the
>woodwork defending Stallone's creativity
>and comparing his intellect to Newton. I
>would expect this fawning over Sly on a
>Sly Forum, not a CC one!

i'm one of those 20. Stallone doesn't
have a Chaplin-level talent, but he
doesn't claim that he does.

Yet, the character of Rocky Balboa
starts out as a loser and close to a
bum (in the original film) and through
human relience and fortitude stands
up against forces greater than he is.

In ROCKY BALBOA, he has lost his
wife, and is living in the fantasies
of past glory, and is written off as
an old man and a has-been.

Somehow, he finds the power
within himself to move ahead
and break out of his funk.

I think there are Chaplinesque
parallels evident there. Furthermore,
Rocky, like the Tramp, exists in
the realm between fiction and reality.

In the case of Rocky, you just might
run into him if you hang out in
South Philly long enough.
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie 

Candace wrote:

> Chaplin had more talent and originality in his fingernail than Stallone
> has in his whole body. For him to compare the character of Rocky to the
> Little Tramp is not only egotistical, it's beyond ludicrous.

Don't be silly!

I'd suggest you watch the original ROCKY again, if not for the first
time. And, based on what I'm reading,
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rocky_balboa/ you might what to catch
ROCKY BALBOA, as well.

Gerald
http://jerre.com
 >> Stay informed about: Sly on Charlie