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Since: Dec 23, 2003 Posts: 31
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:30 am
Post subject: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)
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I am somewhat ashamed to admit this, but until last night I had never
seen "A King In NY."
So, I went into it almost dreading the experience. I have a pretty
good library of Charlie books, and most of them - even Uno Asplund's
"Chaplin's Films," positively pan the film.
What I saw somewhat surprised me.
Clearly, this is NOT the master at work at City Lights or The Gold
Rush, but I found it to be sort of a Lubitsch-like, lite frothy little
film. Some of the jokes went on a little too long (Chaplin getting
caught in the elevator) and the film probably should have been about
20 minutes shorter, but I thought there were ALOT of redeeming
moments: Chaplin wordlessly indicating he wants caviar and turtle
soup, his reciting Hamlet, the meeting with "Prince Rupert" after the
young boy turned informer, etc.
Again, the reviews I had read throughout the years led me to believe
that it was a film composed of just banal nonsense. One book said
that the bathroom scene was "Chaplin at an all-time low." But
actually, I found the part when Charlie and his ambassador were
struggling to be the one to look through the keyhole at Dawn Adams in
the tub to be fairly amusing, and very well acted. Ironically, I find
some of Charlie's earlier scenes in earlier films such as his picking
up what he thinks to be a coin in "The Vagabond" only to find out is
really a gob of spit to be far "lower" than this scene.
Also, I think Chaplin defintely "undereplayed" the attacks on America.
Frankly, I expected the attacks to be far shriller, far more heavy
handed and non-stop than they actually were in the film. He poked fun
at American fads, in a satirical way (and haven't alot of movies since
done so, like "Airplane?") but it was not shrill or incessant. The
turning of his and the audiences' head, right to left, right to left,
during the gunfight scene was amusing.
Again, I was just really pleasantly surprsied by this film. I went
into it expecting that I would watch "AKINY" once, just to say I had
finally seen it, and that would be it - but I found myself enjoying
Chaplin's performance and enjoying his spooofing of fads. I also
felt a sadness that I was really watching the end of his career on
film (not counting "Countess.")
I think alot of the criticism that the film has endured has come
because this was a departure in style and spirit for Chaplin more
thamn anything else - sort of a domestic comedy, a Lubitsch-lite film,
as it were. While Lubitsch's "Trouble in Paradise" is one my FAVORITE
films (I do think it a masterpiece!) I kept thinking while watching
"AKINY" that - while it is clearly not up the to level of "Tropuble,"
nevertheless had Lubuitsch done "AKINY" instead of Chaplin, the
reaction to it might have been far less hostile. I just think alot
of critics - then and know - find this too much of a departure from
Chaplin's canon of work, and so vent their spleen at it. But I
enjoyed it.
One area where I will concede it to be way below his standard is in
the film's production values. Now, I know that Chaplin always liked
rear-projection, and not always in the best-produced way (remember the
scene in "Modern Times" where the non-completed ship slides away from
him and sinks?) But the rear projection in "AKINY" was especially bad
(the scene where Michael walks along a rear-projected NYC through the
snow was terrible!) I think this was due to the fact that Charlie now
longer had creative control over his film - he no longer had his own
studio, and the film was turned out in sort of a "crank this one out
now" mode in Shepperton Studios in the UK. Sort of ironic when you
think of it - Charlie began his career in a studio (Keystone) where
the mass-production philosophy prevailed - and, full circle, he then
ended his career back at another studio under the same philiosphy.
Nevertheless, while AKINY is clearly not a masterpiece, and while I
would NEVER show it as one of the first dozen (or even 2 dozen) films
I use to introduce someone to Charlie, I did enjoy it - and I want to
see it again, which for me at least is ultimately the test of whether
a film is truly intriguing or not.
Lonnie N. >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Jul 30, 2003 Posts: 221
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:52 pm
Post subject: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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lonnien RemoveThis @starpower.net (Lonnie) writes:
> [...] had Lubuitsch done "AKINY"
> instead of Chaplin, the reaction to it
> might have been far less hostile.
Well, of *course* it would have been less hostile.
The critics would have been so impressed by the fact that a guy who'd been dead
ten years had actually directed a movie that they would have cut him a certain
amount of slack. :)
Tom Moran
"You can get a great deal of entertainment
out of tedious people if you keep your head.''
-- W. Somerset Maugham >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Jul 16, 2003 Posts: 671
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lonnie (lonnien@starpower.net) writes:
> I am somewhat ashamed to admit this, but until last night I had never
> seen "A King In NY."
>
> So, I went into it almost dreading the experience. I have a pretty
> good library of Charlie books, and most of them - even Uno Asplund's
> "Chaplin's Films," positively pan the film.
>
> What I saw somewhat surprised me.
It's the old expectations game, Lonnie. You came to this film
with the best possible frame of mind.
> Clearly, this is NOT the master at work at City Lights or The Gold
> Rush, but I found it to be sort of a Lubitsch-like, lite frothy little
> film. Some of the jokes went on a little too long (Chaplin getting
> caught in the elevator) and the film probably should have been about
> 20 minutes shorter, but I thought there were ALOT of redeeming
> moments: Chaplin wordlessly indicating he wants caviar and turtle
> soup, his reciting Hamlet, the meeting with "Prince Rupert" after the
> young boy turned informer, etc.
>
> Again, the reviews I had read throughout the years led me to believe
> that it was a film composed of just banal nonsense. One book said
> that the bathroom scene was "Chaplin at an all-time low." But
> actually, I found the part when Charlie and his ambassador were
> struggling to be the one to look through the keyhole at Dawn Adams in
> the tub to be fairly amusing, and very well acted.
That's a case of reading the "lecherous old goat" image Chaplin's
enemies had created into his film. One suspects that the Addams chaaracter
has knowingly set up this peep show opportunity. She's selling everything,
after all.
Ironically, I find
> some of Charlie's earlier scenes in earlier films such as his picking
> up what he thinks to be a coin in "The Vagabond" only to find out is
> really a gob of spit to be far "lower" than this scene
It may be low, but it makes a point, and it's memorable.
> Also, I think Chaplin defintely "undereplayed" the attacks on America.
> Frankly, I expected the attacks to be far shriller, far more heavy
> handed and non-stop than they actually were in the film. He poked fun
> at American fads, in a satirical way (and haven't alot of movies since
> done so, like "Airplane?") but it was not shrill or incessant.
I see Chaplin viewing himself humorously as well, through the characters
of Rupert and Shadov, and consoling himself when Shadov tells Rupert
that nothing is as important as it seems.
The
> turning of his and the audiences' head, right to left, right to left,
> during the gunfight scene was amusing.
>
> Again, I was just really pleasantly surprsied by this film. I went
> into it expecting that I would watch "AKINY" once, just to say I had
> finally seen it, and that would be it - but I found myself enjoying
> Chaplin's performance and enjoying his spooofing of fads. I also
> felt a sadness that I was really watching the end of his career on
> film (not counting "Countess.")
>
> I think alot of the criticism that the film has endured has come
> because this was a departure in style and spirit for Chaplin more
> thamn anything else - sort of a domestic comedy, a Lubitsch-lite film,
> as it were. While Lubitsch's "Trouble in Paradise" is one my FAVORITE
> films (I do think it a masterpiece!) I kept thinking while watching
> "AKINY" that - while it is clearly not up the to level of "Tropuble,"
> nevertheless had Lubuitsch done "AKINY" instead of Chaplin, the
> reaction to it might have been far less hostile. I just think alot
> of critics - then and know - find this too much of a departure from
> Chaplin's canon of work, and so vent their spleen at it. But I
> enjoyed it.
>
> One area where I will concede it to be way below his standard is in
> the film's production values. Now, I know that Chaplin always liked
> rear-projection, and not always in the best-produced way (remember the
> scene in "Modern Times" where the non-completed ship slides away from
> him and sinks?)
For some reason that looks a lot better on the new DVD release.
But the rear projection in "AKINY" was especially bad
> (the scene where Michael walks along a rear-projected NYC through the
> snow was terrible!) I think this was due to the fact that Charlie now
> longer had creative control over his film - he no longer had his own
> studio, and the film was turned out in sort of a "crank this one out
> now" mode in Shepperton Studios in the UK. Sort of ironic when you
> think of it - Charlie began his career in a studio (Keystone) where
> the mass-production philosophy prevailed - and, full circle, he then
> ended his career back at another studio under the same philiosphy.
>
> Nevertheless, while AKINY is clearly not a masterpiece, and while I
> would NEVER show it as one of the first dozen (or even 2 dozen) films
> I use to introduce someone to Charlie, I did enjoy it - and I want to
> see it again, which for me at least is ultimately the test of whether
> a film is truly intriguing or not.
>
> Lonnie N.
The music is quite good. Well, I like it, and some musicians seem to
like it as well.
Connie K.
--
"Our century is inconceivable without its . . . inconclusive mob of isms." >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 48
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lonnie wrote...
> I am somewhat ashamed to admit this, but until last night I had never
> seen "A King In NY."
> Clearly, this is NOT the master at work at City Lights or The Gold
> Rush, but I found it to be sort of a Lubitsch-like, lite frothy little
> film. Some of the jokes went on a little too long (Chaplin getting
> caught in the elevator) and the film probably should have been about
> 20 minutes shorter, but I thought there were ALOT of redeeming
> moments: Chaplin wordlessly indicating he wants caviar and turtle
> soup, his reciting Hamlet, the meeting with "Prince Rupert" after the
> young boy turned informer, etc.
I'm glad you liked the film. Wish I could like it too!
But as much as I love his silent films, I really don't care for the
talkies. "A King in New York" sinks under the weight of the flaws
found in all of Chaplin's talkies:
1. It's way too long.
2. It's way too talky, chiefly because Chaplin loved to write loads
of philosophical asides into his dialogue, little of which is of any
depth, IMO.
3. The production values are awful. Outdoor scenes are done on
soundstages or with terrible rear-projection, and indoor scenes are
done on sets that look like B-movie leftovers. (Some of the "Verdoux"
sets are very nice, though.)
4. Chaplin's performance really isn't very good. I know this will
sound outrageous to some of you, but all the great Chaplin
performances were done in pantomime. When he can mime it in the
talkies, like he does in the music hall scenes of "Limelight," he's
great; but when he has to deliver dialogue, he strikes me as being
quite bad much of the time. I never get a sense of real feelings or
thoughts within these characters. I don't see any subtlety or realism.
His movements and expressions are a little exaggerated, which makes
them phony. The things they say sound contrived, just words from a
script rather than spontaneous and natural. The characters don't have
any warmth to them; they're so pompous and self-consciously "special"
that it's hard to connect with them emotionally. Finally, I never get
the feeling that Chaplin *is* the character he's playing, and that's
an actor's job. Instead, I get the sense that Chaplin is remaining
himself, rendering a grand performance full of unnecessary gesturing
and flowery speech.
Before I'm branded a Chaplin-hater, let me add that all these films
do have their moments, and they all have outstanding music. And I love
his silents, which prove to me how great an artist Chaplin was.
But his talkies leave me cold, and "A King in New York" leaves me
the chilliest of all.
--Shush-- >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Dec 23, 2003 Posts: 31
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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To Shush:
I do understand what you menat regardimng Chaplin's language, but I
guess, ironically, is his very "wordiness" in these films that I
enjoy!
Maybe I'm reacting to the present=day films and movies in feeling this
way. I'm actually a fairly young person, but I guess that in a
cinema world represented by "The Matrix," and a TV world by "Will &
Grace," where every conversation must last only a short time, it's
Chaplin's very wordiness - his exposition, his refusal NOT to say
things in short pithy sound bites, that I like. I enjoy his
philopsphical ruminations because they are so stream-of-consciousness,
they are so non-truncated. I'm an attorney, and I work in the world
of party politics, and everything there is down to the candidate's
5-second sound bite (used to be 10 second, but that's been cut down).
And Hollywood now, rightly or wrongly, seems to think that people want
discussions not to last for any appreciable length. So, I find that
Chaplin discuusing "the public" with Terry in Limelight - admittedly a
bit long - is nevertheless interesting because it is NOT abbreviated
and cut.
Lonnie N. >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Jul 30, 2003 Posts: 221
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:53 pm
Post subject: Chaplin's Talkies (Was: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!") [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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shushfilms RemoveThis @yahoo.com (Shush) writes:
> I'm glad you liked the film. Wish I could
> like it too!
> But as much as I love his silent films,
> I really don't care for the talkies.
Since I prefer not to comment on you-know-what, take what follows as my
commentary on Chaplin's talkies in general.
> "A King in New York" sinks under the
> weight of the flaws found in all of
> Chaplin's talkies:
> 1. It's way too long.
Have to agree with this. I can't think of a Chaplin talkie that couldn't lose
half an hour of running time without improvement.
What I'd like to see sometime -- just as an experiment, mind you -- is for some
of the people on this newsgroup to get some editing software, digitize
Chaplin's talkies and do their own edits, and see what they'd cut.
Someone at SVA did this quite intriguingly with one of George Lucas' later
"Star Wars" films.
> 2. It's way too talky, chiefly because
> Chaplin loved to write loads of
> philosophical asides into his dialogue,
> little of which is of any depth, IMO.
This is only half-true. The philosophical asides in "Monsieur Verdoux" are
relevant to the film and, at least in my opinion, work quite well.
The gabfest really begins with "Limelight." That's where Chaplin starts to
fall in love with the sound of his own voice.
I think Chaplin's decline really began when he had to abandon his old working
methods and had to write his own scripts. That's when you see his plot
construction start to get clunky -- because he felt like he had to move from A
to B to C...
It's interesting to think of what "City Lights" might have been like if Chaplin
had had to write a screenplay for it. The film might not have been nearly as
good.
> 3. The production values are awful.
> Outdoor scenes are done on
> soundstages or with terrible
> rear-projection, and indoor scenes
> are done on sets that look like B-movie
> leftovers. (Some of the "Verdoux" sets
> are very nice, though.)
The production values don't bother me until we get to you-know-what in 1957.
> 4. Chaplin's performance really isn't
> very good. I know this will sound
> outrageous to some of you, but all
> the great Chaplin performances were
> done in pantomime. When he can
> mime it in the talkies, like he does in
> the music hall scenes of "Limelight,"
> he's great; but when he has to deliver
> dialogue, he strikes me as being
> quite bad much of the time. I never get
> a sense of real feelings or thoughts
> within these characters. I don't see
> any subtlety or realism. His movements
> and expressions are a little exaggerated,
> which makes them phony. The things
> they say sound contrived, just words
> from a script rather than spontaneous
> and natural. The characters don't have
> any warmth to them; they're so pompous
> and self-consciously "special" that it's
> hard to connect with them emotionally.
This might be a problem with your sensibilities -- a matter of your grafting
your 21st Century expectations of acting onto mid-20th Century performances.
Keep in mind that his peers thought enough about Chaplin's performance in "The
Great Dictator" to nominate it for an Academy Award.
> Finally, I never get the feeling that
> Chaplin *is* the character he's playing,
> and that's an actor's job. Instead, I get
> the sense that Chaplin is remaining
> himself, rendering a grand performance
> full of unnecessary gesturing and flowery
> speech.
You can argue that Chaplin as a screenwriter lets down Chaplin as an actor.
After all, it's easier to give a great performance if you have first-rate
material.
But I don't have a problem with Chaplin's performances in either "The Great
Dictator" or "Monsieur Verdoux." His performance in "Verdoux," in my opinion,
should have gotten him an Oscar. The trouble is, besides the controversial
nature of voting for Chaplin in 1948, the fact was (and still is) that Oscar
does not award flops -- and "Verdoux" was a flop on its original release.
If it had been a hit Chaplin might have gotten another Oscar nomination.
> Before I'm branded a Chaplin-hater, let
> me add that all these films do have their
> moments, and they all have outstanding
> music. And I love his silents, which
> prove to me how great an artist Chaplin
> was.
I don't think anyone on this newsgroup is prepared to argue that Chaplin's
talkies are superior to his silent films.
I've made this analogy before, but I'll make it again. Chaplin the silent
filmmaker reminds me of Michael Jordan the basketball player. One of a kind.
Chaplin the sound filmmaker, on the other hand, reminds me of the Michael
Jordan who tried to play professional baseball and couldn't hit a curveball
against minor league pitching.
Okay, that may be overstating it, but you get what I mean.
I do think his first three talkies are good films. Not great, not
masterppieces, but very solid films. Flawed, certainly (that opening scene
with the family in "Verdoux" makes me cringe every time), but well worth
seeing.
I just wish he'd packed it in with "Limelight."
> But his talkies leave me cold, and
> "A King in New York" leaves me the
> chilliest of all.
Don't get me started on that one. Bruce might get upset --- and God knows we
don't want to wound his delicate sensibilities. :)
Tom Moran
"You can get a great deal of entertainment
out of tedious people if you keep your head.''
-- W. Somerset Maugham >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Jul 16, 2003 Posts: 671
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Chaplin's Talkies (Was: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!") [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Feuillade (feuillade@aol.com) writes:
> shushfilms DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Shush) writes:
>
>> I'm glad you liked the film. Wish I could
>> like it too!
>
>> But as much as I love his silent films,
>> I really don't care for the talkies.
>
> Since I prefer not to comment on you-know-what, take what follows as my
> commentary on Chaplin's talkies in general.
>
>> "A King in New York" sinks under the
>> weight of the flaws found in all of
>> Chaplin's talkies:
>
>> 1. It's way too long.
>
> Have to agree with this. I can't think of a Chaplin talkie that couldn't lose
> half an hour of running time without improvement.
I agree in principle, although in fact a good many of the talkies of the
'30s and thereafter are much too long, and much too verbose. Have you watched
_You Can't Take It With You_ lately? It runs at least half an hour too long--
as for that matter does every Capra soundie that I've seen--including
_Wonderful Life_, with those horrible chattering angels. It won an AA for
best picture, and Capra won for best director.
Chaplin based his approach to soundies on what was working for other people.
Long, talky films were working.
> What I'd like to see sometime -- just as an experiment, mind you -- is for some
> of the people on this newsgroup to get some editing software, digitize
> Chaplin's talkies and do their own edits, and see what they'd cut.
>
> Someone at SVA did this quite intriguingly with one of George Lucas' later
> "Star Wars" films.
>
>> 2. It's way too talky, chiefly because
>> Chaplin loved to write loads of
>> philosophical asides into his dialogue,
>> little of which is of any depth, IMO.
>
> This is only half-true. The philosophical asides in "Monsieur Verdoux" are
> relevant to the film and, at least in my opinion, work quite well.
>
> The gabfest really begins with "Limelight." That's where Chaplin starts to
> fall in love with the sound of his own voice.
I would have agreed a few months ago. But I watched it again when I acquired
the new DVDs, and thought it had improved considerably. There isn't, actually,
that much talk in it. One of these days, instead of taking up knitting, I'll
do a word count. Most of what Calvero says is appropriate to the situation and
modest enough--some of it while he's still half looped.
I find it one of Chaplin's more fascinating films, but then I'm interested
in how artists objectify personal issues in art. There's an enormous
amount of that going on in _Limelight_.
> I think Chaplin's decline really began when he had to abandon his old working
> methods and had to write his own scripts. That's when you see his plot
> construction start to get clunky -- because he felt like he had to move from A
> to B to C...
>
> It's interesting to think of what "City Lights" might have been like if Chaplin
> had had to write a screenplay for it. The film might not have been nearly as
> good.
Well, I don't know. He wrote a script of some sort for _Modern Times_, part
of which is on the Image disk. His script for _Verdoux_ is pretty damned good--
and was nominated for an AA.
I don't know if you've seen Lloyd's early soundies, but they're complete
messes compared to what Chaplin accomplished by slowly edging his way into
sound. The weaknesses of Chaplin's sound films are minor compared to the
shoddy stuff Lloyd made with Bruckman.
Furthermore, though Lloyd was a very good actor, his early sound performances
are poor. He doesn't start to hit his stride until 1934, in _The Cat's Paw_,
which is a rather good film by the way, though not in the same league as
_Dictator_, _Verdoux_, or _Limelight_.
>> 3. The production values are awful.
>> Outdoor scenes are done on
>> soundstages or with terrible
>> rear-projection, and indoor scenes
>> are done on sets that look like B-movie
>> leftovers. (Some of the "Verdoux" sets
>> are very nice, though.)
>
> The production values don't bother me until we get to you-know-what in 1957.
I agree. The production values of the films through _Limelight_ are
not egregiously below prevailing industry standards. Xanadu looks like
a fantasy castle in a comic book.
>> 4. Chaplin's performance really isn't
>> very good. I know this will sound
>> outrageous to some of you, but all
>> the great Chaplin performances were
>> done in pantomime. When he can
>> mime it in the talkies, like he does in
>> the music hall scenes of "Limelight,"
>> he's great; but when he has to deliver
>> dialogue, he strikes me as being
>> quite bad much of the time. I never get
>> a sense of real feelings or thoughts
>> within these characters. I don't see
>> any subtlety or realism. His movements
>> and expressions are a little exaggerated,
>> which makes them phony. The things
>> they say sound contrived, just words
>> from a script rather than spontaneous
>> and natural. The characters don't have
>> any warmth to them; they're so pompous
>> and self-consciously "special" that it's
>> hard to connect with them emotionally.
>
> This might be a problem with your sensibilities -- a matter of your grafting
> your 21st Century expectations of acting onto mid-20th Century performances.
>
> Keep in mind that his peers thought enough about Chaplin's performance in "The
> Great Dictator" to nominate it for an Academy Award.
>
>> Finally, I never get the feeling that
>> Chaplin *is* the character he's playing,
>> and that's an actor's job. Instead, I get
>> the sense that Chaplin is remaining
>> himself, rendering a grand performance
>> full of unnecessary gesturing and flowery
>> speech.
>
> You can argue that Chaplin as a screenwriter lets down Chaplin as an actor.
> After all, it's easier to give a great performance if you have first-rate
> material.
>
> But I don't have a problem with Chaplin's performances in either "The Great
> Dictator" or "Monsieur Verdoux." His performance in "Verdoux," in my opinion,
> should have gotten him an Oscar. The trouble is, besides the controversial
> nature of voting for Chaplin in 1948, the fact was (and still is) that Oscar
> does not award flops -- and "Verdoux" was a flop on its original release.
>
> If it had been a hit Chaplin might have gotten another Oscar nomination.
To my taste he's fine in both _Dictator_ and _Verdoux_. _Dictator_ isn't
realistic, and Verdoux is a concept as much as he is a character. Chaplin goes
about as far with characterization as he wants to go, though one could always
quarrel with intellectualizing a serial killer. It was a risky thing to do.
But I had the same experience watching _Verdoux_ again as I had with
_Limelight_. It looked much better than I remembered it being, and I've never
disliked it, though I think it's problematic.
>> Before I'm branded a Chaplin-hater, let
>> me add that all these films do have their
>> moments, and they all have outstanding
>> music. And I love his silents, which
>> prove to me how great an artist Chaplin
>> was.
>
> I don't think anyone on this newsgroup is prepared to argue that Chaplin's
> talkies are superior to his silent films.
>
> I've made this analogy before, but I'll make it again. Chaplin the silent
> filmmaker reminds me of Michael Jordan the basketball player. One of a kind.
> Chaplin the sound filmmaker, on the other hand, reminds me of the Michael
> Jordan who tried to play professional baseball and couldn't hit a curveball
> against minor league pitching.
>
> Okay, that may be overstating it, but you get what I mean.
>
> I do think his first three talkies are good films. Not great, not
> masterppieces, but very solid films. Flawed, certainly (that opening scene
> with the family in "Verdoux" makes me cringe every time), but well worth
> seeing.
With the coming of sound, everyone was thrown into minor league baseball,
willy nilly. Chaplin managed the transition better than most.
Connie K.
>
> I just wish he'd packed it in with "Limelight."
>
>> But his talkies leave me cold, and
>> "A King in New York" leaves me the
>> chilliest of all.
>
> Don't get me started on that one. Bruce might get upset --- and God knows we
> don't want to wound his delicate sensibilities. :)
>
>
> Tom Moran
>
> "You can get a great deal of entertainment
> out of tedious people if you keep your head.''
> -- W. Somerset Maugham
>
>
>
--
"Our century is inconceivable without its . . . inconclusive mob of isms." >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Oct 15, 2003 Posts: 32
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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lonnien DeleteThis @starpower.net (Lonnie) wrote in message news:<c4915e11.0404041041.6b46068c DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> To Shush:
>
> I do understand what you menat regardimng Chaplin's language, but I
> guess, ironically, is his very "wordiness" in these films that I
> enjoy!
>
> Maybe I'm reacting to the present=day films and movies in feeling this
> way. I'm actually a fairly young person, but I guess that in a
> cinema world represented by "The Matrix," and a TV world by "Will &
> Grace," where every conversation must last only a short time, it's
> Chaplin's very wordiness - his exposition, his refusal NOT to say
> things in short pithy sound bites, that I like. I enjoy his
> philopsphical ruminations because they are so stream-of-consciousness,
> they are so non-truncated. I'm an attorney, and I work in the world
> of party politics, and everything there is down to the candidate's
> 5-second sound bite (used to be 10 second, but that's been cut down).
> And Hollywood now, rightly or wrongly, seems to think that people want
> discussions not to last for any appreciable length. So, I find that
> Chaplin discuusing "the public" with Terry in Limelight - admittedly a
> bit long - is nevertheless interesting because it is NOT abbreviated
> and cut.
>
> Lonnie N.
Oh.
--Tony >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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Since: Dec 01, 2003 Posts: 63
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Chaplin's Talkies (Was: Re: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!") [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <e735104c.0404041600.4136d6db.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>, Shush
<shushfilmseznospam.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Maybe I'm too picky. But I hate to see Chaplin cutting corners in
> his talkies. Right up through "Modern Times," he cared enough to shoot
> exteriors out of doors. But with "Great Dictator," he starts doing
> them on sets, and they just don't play well to me.
But that was nothing new - he was doing "fake exteriors" as far back as
Easy Street.
Doug >> Stay informed about: I Was Surpsed By "A King In NY!!!!!" |
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