TC slate care on set

On 15 Dec 2003 19:22:29 EST, "Glen Trew"
wrote:

>Atlanta based production has done quite a bit of TC-on-film. This has been
>mostly for commercials and other short production, but also on some
>television series. Base on my unscientific observation of conversations with
>our customers, Atlanta may be the largest per capita user of TC on film that
>I am aware of.

Well, i was more wondering about India, Japan, Taiwan, Russia,
South-america, South-Africa, Middle east, and Australia-New Zealand
area...

R








--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: TC slate care on set 

"Rob?rto" wrote in message

> On 15 Dec 2003 19:22:29 EST, "Glen Trew"
> wrote:
>
> >Atlanta based production has done quite a bit of TC-on-film. This has
been
> >mostly for commercials and other short production, but also on some
> >television series. Base on my unscientific observation of conversations
with
> >our customers, Atlanta may be the largest per capita user of TC on film
that
> >I am aware of.
>
> Well, i was more wondering about India, Japan, Taiwan, Russia,
> South-america, South-Africa, Middle east, and Australia-New Zealand
> area...
>
> R

I didn't realize you were limiting your question to just a few countries.

GT
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On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:10:59 -0800, "Douglas Tourtelot"
wrote:

>Don't EVER take responsibility for problems that are not your
>responsibility. Just say "no" and point them in the proper direction for
>real answers. Works every time.
>
>D.

Over here that's short for give them the cam ass phone number ,
correct ?


R









--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: TC slate care on set 

Charles Tomaras wrote:
>
>
> Just curious... how is it that the Timecode Slate ended up being a Sound
> Department item instead of a camera department item?


Probably because historically along with sound came this thing, sync. So its
been viewed as part of sound, rather than camera. We've always been the
timekeepers...

G. John Garrett, CAS
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On 12/24/03 12:38 PM, in article
1d56dc30.0312241238.28210464.RemoveThis@posting.google.com, "David Carmiggelt"
wrote:

> I was wondering what 's the reason nobody on our otherside of the
> Atlantic is using the "TC on film"

Jeff Wexler comments:

My remarks about the lack of timecode directly on film applies only to the
use of cameras that "print" timecode or timecode markers actually on the
film, doing away with the necessity to use timecode slates of any sort.

I still have not gotten the full answer from the rest of the film community
here in L.A., I really can only report what I see happening and not
happening.

I do remember that in the early days of timecode on film, most of the big
cinematographers here did not want to use the cameras that were modified to
expose an area of the film stock with timecode information because there
were many instances of edge fog being introduced and ruining the image. Few
if any camera people were willing to risk wrecking the image to provide some
kind of new sync system to accommodate sound.

It is possible that this legacy of distrust (no longer a real issue as the
cameras all do timecode on film quite reliably) lingers on.

My last experience with the possibility of using timecode on film happened
on a movie that was very close to using the Aaton timecode system through
the whole syncing of dailies on the KEM, and when they discovered there were
only 2 Aaton compatible readers available and it would take 3 weeks to fit
the KEM, they abandoned that system without even trying to make it work.

I know this sounds pathetic certainly in light of timecode systems working
everyday in many parts of the world, I still stand by my assessment that it
is NOT being used in any big way here in Hollywood.

Regards, Jeff Wexler
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On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 21:00:04 -0800, Jeff Wexler wrote
(in message ):

> I still have not gotten the full answer from the rest of the film community
> here in L.A., I really can only report what I see happening and not
> happening.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Ray Collins is correct elsewhere. Shows and features in LA generally don't
use Aaton timecode-on-film because it's not available from Panavision, and
80% of the major productions I know of all use Panavision gear. This is a
major difference between U.S. and European shows.

I've worked on a handful of network shows (PARKERS was one of them) that used
the Aaton 16mm camera package, and in general, it synced up pretty well in
post, particularly with sound on hard drive. There were always occasions
were something broke -- like when everybody went off to lunch, and the camera
had one timecode, the sound had another timecode, and the slate had timecode
different from the other two... quite a mess. When that happens, we have to
resort to syncing by hand, which is infinitely slower than just using a
regular (working) smart slate. Still, it worked about 98% of the time, and
cut at least 15%-20% off the dailies sessions.

But the few shows I knew of that used Aaton are now shooting on HDCam, which
eliminates the need for Aaton code since there's already 24P timecode on
tape. I suspect this will be an ongoing trend for low-budget features and
episodic TV shows, as they switch from 16mm to HDCam.

I wish that Aaton had worked harder to get Panavision, Arriflex, and so on to
adopt their timecode system, but my understanding of the system is that there
were several lawsuits and patent problems that killed that whole negotiation.
In addition, Aaton made it difficult for other telecine hardware firms (like
Evertz and daVinci) to make & sell compatible timecode/keycode readers,
because they wanted to own that part of the market. So from my point of view
and my perspective, I think Aaton is to blame for the lack of success for
timecode-on-film, at least in LA and NY. And it's kind of a lost battle at
this point.

Anybody working for Aaton is free to jump in and correct me, if they have a
more complete version of the story.

--MFW
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never sow more idiotic design for video camera ,its seems that the guy who
designed the el Camino take a side job with that monster,
even English designs looks better -tell them to hire some Italians:-)
> Takes cine lenses and its is made in North America. Thinking of buying
> stock.


Appears NOT to record sound which may be a good thing.
>
not is not - but this is only the head without recorder ,for the resolution
that they are talking you need to park the Mack vtr near the geny and
that's good for block the geny noise

--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland
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25-12-2003 08:47 "Marc Wielage" :


> But the few shows I knew of that used Aaton are now shooting on HDCam, which
> eliminates the need for Aaton code since there's already 24P timecode on
> tape.

Yes, but are you saying they are using TOD for that? That would be so time
consuming for capturing in post.
I think it is very strange that the HDCAMs are not capable of writing a tape
TC (continous) and a Sync TC (time-of-day).
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25-12-2003 09:24 "Oleg Kaizerman" :

> the digitizing process that take place after shooting (the sink and the
> proper ordering of the shots )are made by very cheap people,the producers
> prefer that then pay for tc equip and full salary for editor that will waist
> they time for placing the shots in the bins
> that's the way is here

Then again, in Holland, there is no such thing as overnight sync rushes
without TC. Has very much to do with how the industry is equipped. And how
the industry is equipped has directly to do with the fact that most camera
rental companies and telecine houses earn their money doing commercials, and
do film on the side.
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Job ter Burg wrote in message ...
> 25-12-2003 09:24 "Oleg Kaizerman" :
>
>
> Then again, in Holland, there is no such thing as overnight sync rushes
> without TC. Has very much to do with how the industry is equipped. And how
> the industry is equipped has directly to do with the fact that most camera
> rental companies and telecine houses earn their money doing commercials, and
> do film on the side.

Sorry Job, excuse me if I don't really get your point here.So if I
understand correctly : here in the lowlands the overnight rushes are
ALWAYS with TC ( right?),and ,correct me if I'm wrong,the status in
rentalhouse /lab/telecine is commercial oriented ?( My guess is that
the"Film" you mentioned is not Film as the carrier but film as in
'Feature' )Done many commercials overhere with 535's where TC was
used,same as on 16.
I understand the Panavision side of the TC story;guess they don't
bother.They will on the otherhand be way behind,in technical
innovation,to the sytems of Arri and Aaton in the very near future.And
that is something I don't really understand for a company with such a
big reputation as Panavision . Greetings David Carmiggelt,soundmixer ,
The Netherlands
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29-12-2003 23:42 "David Carmiggelt" :

> Sorry Job, excuse me if I don't really get your point here.So if I
> understand correctly : here in the lowlands the overnight rushes are
> ALWAYS with TC ( right?)

What I mean is, that in order to get sync rushes within a day or a day and a
half, you either have to use TimeCode, or need to hire an Avid and an
assitant editor to do the syncing and playouts. The latter is
time-consuming, and costs extra time. Plus, on a lot of features, the Avid
will not be available during the first two weeks of shooting.
If you take in account that all the camera rental houses as well as all
telecine houses live off commercials and TV-works, and therefor all their
cameras and telecines have TimeCode, it's a pretty easy decision to shoot
TC.
In other industries, where the logging process is taken off-line, and is
mostly offered by the facility that delivers the dailies, where not all
cameras have TimeCode, it's a different ballgame.

> ,and ,correct me if I'm wrong,the status in
> rentalhouse /lab/telecine is commercial oriented ?( My guess is that
> the"Film" you mentioned is not Film as the carrier but film as in
> 'Feature' )Done many commercials overhere with 535's where TC was
> used,same as on 16.

That is exactly why there is hardly any reason for feature film productions
to NOT use timecode, since it is so easily available (without extra costs).

> I understand the Panavision side of the TC story;guess they don't
> bother. They will on the otherhand be way behind,in technical
> innovation,to the sytems of Arri and Aaton in the very near future.

Very dependent on market. If LA features don't use TC, why would they bother
implementing it? If they don't implement it, why would anyone bother using
it? Why would you use Timecode if it doesn't affect your workflow in terms
of speed or economics?
 >> Stay informed about: TC slate care on set 

I guess it goes back to "the triangle".....


good

fast cheap



You can only have two of them at a time.

if it is fast and cheap, it won't be good
if it is fast and good, it won't be cheap
it it is cheap and good, it won't be fast

there are so many methods and ways depending on how you are shooting
and who you are posting with, go back to "the triangle" and remember
this.....

you always want it to be good
 >> Stay informed about: TC slate care on set