TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA

WaverBoy wrote:
> When, oh WHEN is this restoration going to be released on DVD? Kino, are
> you listening???

Know anyone who wants to cut a check?

J. Theakston
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

J. Theakston wrote:
> WaverBoy wrote:
> > When, oh WHEN is this restoration going to be released on DVD? Kino, are
> > you listening???
>
> Know anyone who wants to cut a check?
>
> J. Theakston

Are there any plans for Kino, Image or Milestone to do it? It would
seem a natural for one of those three.
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
the not too distant future.

In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
Adams.

I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.

Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

If that lousy Alloy Orchestra does the score (or should we say banging
on pots and pans noise) for the "TIllie Punctured Romance" DVD I for
sure won't buy it. Why don't they use someone good like Robert Isreal
or Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra instead?


Ken Winokur wrote:
> No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
> Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
> Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
> the not too distant future.
>
> In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> Adams.
>
> I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.
>
> Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

Hey, pay attention! Can't you read? The score was written and
performed by Tillie's Nightmare - a traditional ragtime ensemble. We
performed the score at the Academy of Motion Pictures and at Pordenone.


The score includes several songs from the original 1909 stage play
(Tillie's Nightmare), as well as new compositions written in the style
of the times. The group includes: Piano, Clarinet, Banjo, Cornet, and
Drums. No pots and pans. I play a traditional drumset, almost exactly
as might have been played in 1914 (when Tillie came out). It includes
a 1919 Leedy Snare drum, a 20's Slingerland marching bass drum with
calfskin heads, a set of woodblocks played by the drummer in Rudy
Vallee's band, and a Lo Boy (the precurser to the Hi Hat, developed and
played between about 1908 and 1915).


The Vagabond wrote:
> If that lousy Alloy Orchestra does the score (or should we say banging
> on pots and pans noise) for the "TIllie Punctured Romance" DVD I for
> sure won't buy it. Why don't they use someone good like Robert Isreal
> or Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra instead?
>
>
> Ken Winokur wrote:
> > No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
> > Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
> > Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
> > the not too distant future.
> >
> > In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> > performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> > Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> > Adams.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.
> >
> > Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

We were paying attention, and we'd rather have Phil Carli (who
performed a brilliant score to the film at Slapsticon last year) or
somebody more competent and sympathetic to the film play it and at a
less draggy projection speed.

Tillies Nightmare indeed, a rose by any other name?

RICHARD M ROBERTS



Ken Winokur wrote:
> Hey, pay attention! Can't you read? The score was written and
> performed by Tillie's Nightmare - a traditional ragtime ensemble. We
> performed the score at the Academy of Motion Pictures and at Pordenone.
>
>
> The score includes several songs from the original 1909 stage play
> (Tillie's Nightmare), as well as new compositions written in the style
> of the times. The group includes: Piano, Clarinet, Banjo, Cornet, and
> Drums. No pots and pans. I play a traditional drumset, almost exactly
> as might have been played in 1914 (when Tillie came out). It includes
> a 1919 Leedy Snare drum, a 20's Slingerland marching bass drum with
> calfskin heads, a set of woodblocks played by the drummer in Rudy
> Vallee's band, and a Lo Boy (the precurser to the Hi Hat, developed and
> played between about 1908 and 1915).
>
>
> The Vagabond wrote:
> > If that lousy Alloy Orchestra does the score (or should we say banging
> > on pots and pans noise) for the "TIllie Punctured Romance" DVD I for
> > sure won't buy it. Why don't they use someone good like Robert Isreal
> > or Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra instead?
> >
> >
> > Ken Winokur wrote:
> > > No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
> > > Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
> > > Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
> > > the not too distant future.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> > > performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> > > Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> > > Adams.
> > >
> > > I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.
> > >
> > > Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

Did you actually see our performance? Do you have any idea of who is
involved other than me? It doesn't contain any other Alloys.

The group is largely made up of professional musicians who have
dedicated their careers to ragtime and early jazz music. Our piano
player, Robin Verdier, has been playing ragtime since the 1950 (I
believe that he turns 74 this year). Billy Novick, on clarinet and
sax, plays with the highly respected Black Eagle Jazz Ensemble (also
ragtime and early jazz). John Kusiak, on banjo and guitar, doesn't
have quite the experience with ragtime. He did composed much of the
music for Errol Moris's academy award winning documentary "The Fog of
War" as well as uncounted other contempory films.

I'm sure that Dr. Phil did a great job, and that Mont Alto and Robert
Israel could also do a fine score. That doesn't mean that they are the
only ones who can.

About the film speed, talk to UCLA about that. It has nothing to do
with us - we didn't decide on the speed.




reprobates RemoveThis @earthlink.net wrote:
> We were paying attention, and we'd rather have Phil Carli (who
> performed a brilliant score to the film at Slapsticon last year) or
> somebody more competent and sympathetic to the film play it and at a
> less draggy projection speed.
>
> Tillies Nightmare indeed, a rose by any other name?
>
> RICHARD M ROBERTS
>
>
>
> Ken Winokur wrote:
> > Hey, pay attention! Can't you read? The score was written and
> > performed by Tillie's Nightmare - a traditional ragtime ensemble. We
> > performed the score at the Academy of Motion Pictures and at Pordenone.
> >
> >
> > The score includes several songs from the original 1909 stage play
> > (Tillie's Nightmare), as well as new compositions written in the style
> > of the times. The group includes: Piano, Clarinet, Banjo, Cornet, and
> > Drums. No pots and pans. I play a traditional drumset, almost exactly
> > as might have been played in 1914 (when Tillie came out). It includes
> > a 1919 Leedy Snare drum, a 20's Slingerland marching bass drum with
> > calfskin heads, a set of woodblocks played by the drummer in Rudy
> > Vallee's band, and a Lo Boy (the precurser to the Hi Hat, developed and
> > played between about 1908 and 1915).
> >
> >
> > The Vagabond wrote:
> > > If that lousy Alloy Orchestra does the score (or should we say banging
> > > on pots and pans noise) for the "TIllie Punctured Romance" DVD I for
> > > sure won't buy it. Why don't they use someone good like Robert Isreal
> > > or Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra instead?
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken Winokur wrote:
> > > > No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
> > > > Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
> > > > Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
> > > > the not too distant future.
> > > >
> > > > In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> > > > performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> > > > Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> > > > Adams.
> > > >
> > > > I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.
> > > >
> > > > Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

Frankly, I would have liked to have a trombone and a upright bass
player. The group was kept small to keep the cost down.

I must admit that I do use a slide whistle (certainly a traditional
instrument if there ever was one) but only once during the whole film.


When you say all that percussion, it's just a simple drumset. I don't
play throughout about half of the score, and often when I do it's just
the woodblock or a pair of spoons.

I've spend a lot of time listening to ragtime and early jazz. They are
my favorite styles of music. The music we play is very authentic
(although much is recently composed). The style of drums I am playing
is also authentic (although occasionally it might seem more like the
music of 1917 than 1914). I like to think that I'm imitating a drummer
who was just a bit ahead of his time.


Vitaphone wrote:
> A violin tossed into all that percussion would make a world of (positive)
> difference, I think... although the inclusion of a banjo sounds hopeful.
>
> That aside, delighted to learn there's a serious effort towards musical
> authenticity. I shudder to think of the damage a dull pianist or "brilliant
> young composer" armed with a slide-whistle, box of broken crockery and a
> synthesizer might heap upon this exuberant, charming film.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> "Ken Winokur" <alloyo.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1149261918.560435.192010@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The group includes: Piano, Clarinet, Banjo, Cornet, and
> > Drums. No pots and pans. I play a traditional drumset, almost exactly
> > as might have been played in 1914 (when Tillie came out). It includes
> > a 1919 Leedy Snare drum, a 20's Slingerland marching bass drum with
> > calfskin heads, a set of woodblocks played by the drummer in Rudy
> > Vallee's band, and a Lo Boy (the precurser to the Hi Hat, developed and
> > played between about 1908 and 1915).
> >
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

Ken Winokur wrote:

> I must admit that I do use a slide whistle (certainly a traditional
> instrument if there ever was one) but only once during the whole film.
>
> When you say all that percussion, it's just a simple drumset. I don't
> play throughout about half of the score, and often when I do it's just
> the woodblock or a pair of spoons.


Based on what's known about comedy accompaniment (check out Rick
Altman's "Silent Film Sound"), percussion effects were a staple for
silent film comedy in many theaters. This was partly attributable to
vaudeville, where bass-drum hits, slide whistles, crashes, rimshots,
and other "trap" effects were considered essential for knock-about
comedy acts. It was the same drummers in the movie theaters, and they
already knew how it was done. Rick quotes some composers and arrangers
who despaired at the practice (since it jolts the audience out of the
world of the film and reminds them that they're at a performance), but
their success was limited to keeping it out of the dramatic pictures.
Here's H. F. Hoffman:

"One evening we had the interior scene of a peasant's cottage, and a
painful parting between two lovers was taking place. All at once a bird
bagan to sing with great violence. I looked at the piano player in
wonderment and found him looking the same at me. "What's that for," he
asked. "You've got me," I replied, "I'll go and see." I found [the
prop-worker] with his cheeks and eyes bulging out, blowing for his very
life. "What's the trouble?" says I. "The bird! The bird!" says he,
without removing the whistle. "Where?" says I. "There!" says he,
pointing triumphantly with a stick to the diminutive canary in a tiny
wooden cage on a top shelf at the far corner of the room. "Good boy!" I
cried, giving him a wallop on the back that made him almost swallow his
blooming whistle."

I personally am not wild about the use of percussion effects for silent
film comedy, but I have to recognize that it's a question of personal
taste, not authenticity. And it can be done appropriately -- I thought
Alloy did nicely with the effects on the Arbuckle/Keatons, but I
dislike the slide-whistle-and-boing-boing effects I've heard on many
Chaplin shorts.

It boils down to a question of ego too -- is the performance about the
movie or about the talent of the drummer? You'll get a different answer
here (where it's all film fans who know that the film comes first) than
you'd get from many general audiences (who are very impressed by live
sync and really enjoy it.) And especially from Alloy audiences, where
often they go to see the band, whatever the picture is.

TILLIE is an irreverent movie with its heart squarely in the ragtime
era. I'm looking forward to the "Nightmare" score.

Rodney Sauer
Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra
www.mont-alto.com
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

Ken Winokur wrote:
> No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
> Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
> Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
> the not too distant future.
>
> In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> Adams.
>
> I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.
>
> Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra

Ken,

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP!!! Barring an actual release date, this was
exactly what I wanted to hear. Tillie, Charlie and Mabel approacheth.

I'm a bit worried about reports of the projection speed being too slow
and jerky though...I REALLY hate that when it comes to silent comedy.
Most of the Chaplin Essanays suffer from that.
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

Ken Winokur wrote:
> In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> Adams.

Hm. I thought the Pacific was the left coast. Can I see your map?

Rodney
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

A violin tossed into all that percussion would make a world of (positive)
difference, I think... although the inclusion of a banjo sounds hopeful.

That aside, delighted to learn there's a serious effort towards musical
authenticity. I shudder to think of the damage a dull pianist or "brilliant
young composer" armed with a slide-whistle, box of broken crockery and a
synthesizer might heap upon this exuberant, charming film.

Jeff


"Ken Winokur" <alloyo.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1149261918.560435.192010@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The group includes: Piano, Clarinet, Banjo, Cornet, and
> Drums. No pots and pans. I play a traditional drumset, almost exactly
> as might have been played in 1914 (when Tillie came out). It includes
> a 1919 Leedy Snare drum, a 20's Slingerland marching bass drum with
> calfskin heads, a set of woodblocks played by the drummer in Rudy
> Vallee's band, and a Lo Boy (the precurser to the Hi Hat, developed and
> played between about 1908 and 1915).
>
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA 

In article <1149256013.713873.221180 DeleteThis @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Ken
Winokur <alloyo DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:

> No details yet, but suffice it to say that our ragtime band, Tillie's
> Nightmare, is getting ready to record our score for the restored
> Tillie's Punctured Romance. We're hoping that the DVD will come out in
> the not too distant future.
>
> In the meantime, for you left-coasters, Tillie's Nightmare is
> performing with the restored film at Mass MoCA on August 12, 2006.
> Mass MoCA is located in the western part of MA, in the town of North
> Adams.
>
> I'll keep you posted when information on the DVD becomes available.
>
> Ken Winokur / Tillie's Nightmare / Alloy Orchestra

Hey, and Ken...
I, for one, love the Alloy Orchestra's scores, and I'm happy to hear
"Tillie" will get a ragtime treatment. One of my gripes about the
scores for the Essanay DVDs was that the music occasionally didn't fit
the films - i.e., highly romantic music would be used for a
Charlie/Edna love scene... but it's an Essanay, for God's sake, not
"Modern Times"...

Glad to hear that "Tillie" won't suffer from this. :-)

Doug
 >> Stay informed about: TILLIE'S PUNCTURED ROMANCE...Restored, but still MIA