HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES?

Constance Kuriyama 3/1/06 12:20 PM

> I checked all my books, starting with Huff, and they all list it as
> _His Trysting Place_, according to the logic of the plot. So I suppose
> we could conclude that even if _Places_ was original and mistaken,
> convention has replaced it with the logically correct title.

I always knew it as Place, but then when Blackhawk first introduced it for
sale, they called it Places. From what I can gather through research, Place
is correct. I don't have my Okuda-Maska book handy, but they are careful to
list original titles and all re-release titles. I'll try to check later.

JN
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

According to the Library of Congress' big blue copyright book, it was
copyrighted on Nov. 7, 1914 as His Trysting Places (LP3706), so I guess
that's the title. Good catch Shush! It's always fun to render all the
Chaplin filmographies of the last half century totally obsolete.

Rob Farr


"James Neibaur" <jneibaur DeleteThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:C02B5331.6DAA4%jneibaur@wi.rr.com...
> Constance Kuriyama 3/1/06 12:20 PM
>
> > I checked all my books, starting with Huff, and they all list it as
> > _His Trysting Place_, according to the logic of the plot. So I suppose
> > we could conclude that even if _Places_ was original and mistaken,
> > convention has replaced it with the logically correct title.
>
> I always knew it as Place, but then when Blackhawk first introduced it for
> sale, they called it Places. From what I can gather through research,
Place
> is correct. I don't have my Okuda-Maska book handy, but they are careful
to
> list original titles and all re-release titles. I'll try to check later.
>
> JN
>
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

"Rob Farr" (lippfarr@nine.netcom.com) writes:
> According to the Library of Congress' big blue copyright book, it was
> copyrighted on Nov. 7, 1914 as His Trysting Places (LP3706), so I guess
> that's the title. Good catch Shush! It's always fun to render all the
> Chaplin filmographies of the last half century totally obsolete.
>
> Rob Farr

Who's to say that he copyrighted title is correct? Some boob at
Keystone might have sent in the paper work with the title wrong, or made
up the title without looking carefully at the plot of the film.

Chaplin might call a gamine a gamin, but I doubt that he'd mistake a
place for places.

Connie K.


>
> "James Neibaur" <jneibaur DeleteThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:C02B5331.6DAA4%jneibaur@wi.rr.com...
>> Constance Kuriyama 3/1/06 12:20 PM
>>
>> > I checked all my books, starting with Huff, and they all list it as
>> > _His Trysting Place_, according to the logic of the plot. So I suppose
>> > we could conclude that even if _Places_ was original and mistaken,
>> > convention has replaced it with the logically correct title.
>>
>> I always knew it as Place, but then when Blackhawk first introduced it for
>> sale, they called it Places. From what I can gather through research,
> Place
>> is correct. I don't have my Okuda-Maska book handy, but they are careful
> to
>> list original titles and all re-release titles. I'll try to check later.
>>
>> JN
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

Well, we'd have to believe that both Keystone's intertitle card writer and
the person who submitted the material to the copyright office (or a clerk at
the copyright office) made the precise same mistake. Possible, but it
strains credulity. I looked at the book again and a revised version was
copyrighted on May 15, 1923 as His Trysting Places (2 reels; Revised
version. Credits: Reviser, Sydney Chaplin. © on revision; Tri-Stone
Pictures, Inc. Sydney Chaplin, author. LP18964).

1923 seems pretty late for a 1914 Keystone to have much commercial
viability. But I guess with The Pilgrim being the only new Chaplin comedy
release that year, Syd thought that the public would be hungry for any
product. And it was a way of recouping some $$$ they were losing to
illegitimate dupers.

Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org
June 20-23

"Constance Kuriyama" <do481 DeleteThis @FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:du69nc$7l8$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> "Rob Farr" (lippfarr@nine.netcom.com) writes:
> > According to the Library of Congress' big blue copyright book, it was
> > copyrighted on Nov. 7, 1914 as His Trysting Places (LP3706), so I guess
> > that's the title. Good catch Shush! It's always fun to render all the
> > Chaplin filmographies of the last half century totally obsolete.
> >
> > Rob Farr
>
> Who's to say that he copyrighted title is correct? Some boob at
> Keystone might have sent in the paper work with the title wrong, or made
> up the title without looking carefully at the plot of the film.
>
> Chaplin might call a gamine a gamin, but I doubt that he'd mistake a
> place for places.
>
> Connie K.
>
>
> >
> > "James Neibaur" <jneibaur DeleteThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:C02B5331.6DAA4%jneibaur@wi.rr.com...
> >> Constance Kuriyama 3/1/06 12:20 PM
> >>
> >> > I checked all my books, starting with Huff, and they all list it as
> >> > _His Trysting Place_, according to the logic of the plot. So I
suppose
> >> > we could conclude that even if _Places_ was original and mistaken,
> >> > convention has replaced it with the logically correct title.
> >>
> >> I always knew it as Place, but then when Blackhawk first introduced it
for
> >> sale, they called it Places. From what I can gather through research,
> > Place
> >> is correct. I don't have my Okuda-Maska book handy, but they are
careful
> > to
> >> list original titles and all re-release titles. I'll try to check
later.
> >>
> >> JN
> >>
> >
> >
>
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

Rob Farr wrote:

> Well, we'd have to believe that both Keystone's intertitle card writer and
> the person who submitted the material to the copyright office (or a clerk at
> the copyright office) made the precise same mistake. Possible, but it
> strains credulity. I looked at the book again and a revised version was
> copyrighted on May 15, 1923 as His Trysting Places (2 reels; Revised
> version. Credits: Reviser, Sydney Chaplin. © on revision; Tri-Stone
> Pictures, Inc. Sydney Chaplin, author. LP18964).
>
> 1923 seems pretty late for a 1914 Keystone to have much commercial
> viability. But I guess with The Pilgrim being the only new Chaplin comedy
> release that year, Syd thought that the public would be hungry for any
> product. And it was a way of recouping some $$$ they were losing to
> illegitimate dupers.

There are at least several of those Syd re-issues. I know HIS
PREHISTORIC PAST is one, and I could swear THE PROPERTY MAN is another,
though I haven't seen it in a long time. The Syd re-issues are easy to
spot for their 1920s intertitles, full of awkward puns.

I wish I knew more about Tri-Stone. Did Syd buy some Keystone
negatives from Triangle? Or was he being paid by Tri-Stone to punch up
his brother's old movies?

There are also some William S. Hart re-issues that Tri-Stone put out
at about the same time, THE RETURN OF DRAW EGAN for example.



--Shush--
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

Rob Farr wrote:

> According to the Library of Congress' big blue copyright book, it was
> copyrighted on Nov. 7, 1914 as His Trysting Places (LP3706), so I guess
> that's the title.

Just out of curiosity, Rob, what's the entry for KID AUTO RACES say?
KID AUTO RACES, or KID AUTO RACES AT VENICE?



--Shush--
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

"Rob Farr" (lippfarr@nine.netcom.com) writes:
> Well, we'd have to believe that both Keystone's intertitle card writer and
> the person who submitted the material to the copyright office (or a clerk at
> the copyright office) made the precise same mistake.

Wouldn't it actually take only one person to make the mistake, and a few
more to perpetuate it?


Possible, but it
> strains credulity. I looked at the book again and a revised version was
> copyrighted on May 15, 1923 as His Trysting Places (2 reels; Revised
> version. Credits: Reviser, Sydney Chaplin. © on revision; Tri-Stone
> Pictures, Inc. Sydney Chaplin, author. LP18964).

> 1923 seems pretty late for a 1914 Keystone to have much commercial
> viability. But I guess with The Pilgrim being the only new Chaplin comedy
> release that year, Syd thought that the public would be hungry for any
> product. And it was a way of recouping some $$$ they were losing to
> illegitimate dupers.
>
> Rob Farr
> www.slapsticon.org
> June 20-23

That's the one with the awful Syd titles--lots of bad puns. I have a print
of it, and it may well have "Places" as the title. I'll get around to
screening it when it's due for its regular airing and take a look.

I don't see much point in accepting an illogical version of a title.
_The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark_ does just as well as _Hamlet_,
and it's a lot easier to remember. All modern editions use the short title.
If we feel free to revise Shakespeare's titles for our convenience, why not
a Chaplin Keystone, especially if the original title doesn't match the film?

Connie K.


> "Constance Kuriyama" <do481.TakeThisOut@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:du69nc$7l8$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>> "Rob Farr" (lippfarr@nine.netcom.com) writes:
>> > According to the Library of Congress' big blue copyright book, it was
>> > copyrighted on Nov. 7, 1914 as His Trysting Places (LP3706), so I guess
>> > that's the title. Good catch Shush! It's always fun to render all the
>> > Chaplin filmographies of the last half century totally obsolete.
>> >
>> > Rob Farr
>>
>> Who's to say that he copyrighted title is correct? Some boob at
>> Keystone might have sent in the paper work with the title wrong, or made
>> up the title without looking carefully at the plot of the film.
>>
>> Chaplin might call a gamine a gamin, but I doubt that he'd mistake a
>> place for places.
>>
>> Connie K.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > "James Neibaur" <jneibaur.TakeThisOut@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>> > news:C02B5331.6DAA4%jneibaur@wi.rr.com...
>> >> Constance Kuriyama 3/1/06 12:20 PM
>> >>
>> >> > I checked all my books, starting with Huff, and they all list it as
>> >> > _His Trysting Place_, according to the logic of the plot. So I
> suppose
>> >> > we could conclude that even if _Places_ was original and mistaken,
>> >> > convention has replaced it with the logically correct title.
>> >>
>> >> I always knew it as Place, but then when Blackhawk first introduced it
> for
>> >> sale, they called it Places. From what I can gather through research,
>> > Place
>> >> is correct. I don't have my Okuda-Maska book handy, but they are
> careful
>> > to
>> >> list original titles and all re-release titles. I'll try to check
> later.
>> >>
>> >> JN
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

"Shush" (shushfilmseznospam@yahoo.com) writes:
> Rob Farr wrote:
>
>> Well, we'd have to believe that both Keystone's intertitle card writer and
>> the person who submitted the material to the copyright office (or a clerk=
> at
>> the copyright office) made the precise same mistake. Possible, but it
>> strains credulity. I looked at the book again and a revised version was
>> copyrighted on May 15, 1923 as His Trysting Places (2 reels; Revised
>> version. Credits: Reviser, Sydney Chaplin. =A9 on revision; Tri-Stone
>> Pictures, Inc. Sydney Chaplin, author. LP18964).
>>
>> 1923 seems pretty late for a 1914 Keystone to have much commercial
>> viability. But I guess with The Pilgrim being the only new Chaplin comedy
>> release that year, Syd thought that the public would be hungry for any
>> product. And it was a way of recouping some $$$ they were losing to
>> illegitimate dupers.
>
> There are at least several of those Syd re-issues. I know HIS
> PREHISTORIC PAST is one, and I could swear THE PROPERTY MAN is another,
> though I haven't seen it in a long time. The Syd re-issues are easy to
> spot for their 1920s intertitles, full of awkward puns.

I don't know if _Property Man_ was one. _His Prehistoric Past_ definitely
was. I have a beautiful cutdown print of it.

Connie K.


> I wish I knew more about Tri-Stone. Did Syd buy some Keystone
> negatives from Triangle? Or was he being paid by Tri-Stone to punch up
> his brother's old movies?
>
> There are also some William S. Hart re-issues that Tri-Stone put out
> at about the same time, THE RETURN OF DRAW EGAN for example.
>
>
>
> --Shush--
>
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

There's no copyright for any of the varients of Kid Auto Races.


"Shush" <shushfilmseznospam DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141346347.039646.250870@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rob Farr wrote:
>
> > According to the Library of Congress' big blue copyright book, it was
> > copyrighted on Nov. 7, 1914 as His Trysting Places (LP3706), so I guess
> > that's the title.
>
> Just out of curiosity, Rob, what's the entry for KID AUTO RACES say?
> KID AUTO RACES, or KID AUTO RACES AT VENICE?
>
>
>
> --Shush--
>
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

Only the later Keystones were copyrighted. The description sheet, dated
Nov. 10, 1914 lists the title as "Places".

So, who has an original print (and how do we get it)? Did it have the
scene with the delivery boy (missing from every print I've ever seen).

Also, I probably mentioned this before, but in the description it says
that Mack ("Ambrose") "has an appointment with Clarice, the pretty
telephone give in the hall of his apartment house, to meet her in the
park, and as he passes, she hands him a note stating the hour and
precise location of the trysting place. This he slips into his pocket
with an affectionate wink - and takes his way to the twenty-five cent
eating place to kill time before the rendevous."

Thus, the "His" in "His Trysting Place" would refer to Mack Swain, not
Charlie, and the plotline was altered by the later addition of a title
card where she simply askes Mack to mail the note for her.
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES? 

During the past months I've been fact checking details in my Sennett
book filmography and HIS TRYSTING PLACE(S) is one of many Keystones
where sources differ...and by sources I'm only talking about primary
sources of course (what someone wrote in a book years later means
nothing without verification of what their sources are).

I wasn't aware of a print with original titles reading HIS TRYSTING
PLACES, but if that indeed is the case the actual original print
(non-altered) would trump every other source.

The Keystone releases list in the Sennett Collection at AMPAS (which
was the source for Kal Lahue's list in the back of Mack Sennett's
Keystone, but pay no attention to Lahue's title spellings because many
of them vary greatly from what's actual on the original typed list)
spells is HIS TRYSTING PLACE. (This was the list kept by Keystone's
editorial/shipping dept.). The New York Motion Picture Co. negative
record (held in the Aitken Papers in Wisconsin) spells it that way as
well. However, the NYMPC release record spells it HIS TRYSTING PLACES,
as does a Keystone ad in Motion Picture News and the MPN releases list
in the same paper. And, as Rob mentioned, so does the copyright record.

So it may be that the film initially was being called HIS TRYSTING
PLACE, but along the way before release it was changed to HIS TRYSTING
PLACES. (Chaplin would have had no say either way on what it was
called.)

If there is a print with original titles reading HIS TRYSTING PLACES
that would cement it as the actual title (since trade spellings varied
wildly and cannot be trusted, and the releases lists and negative
records sometimes vary from the actual titles, but are usually
correct.)

However, if the title someone is referring to is a reissue (like the
1923 Tri-Stone), reissues stating "originally titled...." can be wrong
to. for instance, the only surviving print of THAT RAG TIME BAND, THE
JAZZ BAND LEADER, says the original title was "THE RAGTIME BAND," but
primary sources mentioned above confirm it as THAT RAG TIME BAND. (Bo
Berglund brought that one to my attention.)

Also, as was mentioned, the actual title for the one 1915 Keystone is
"MABLE, FATTY, AND THE LAW"...Mabel misspelled and the comma before and
(not usually used in Keystone titles). In trade ads, Mabel's name was
spelled "Mable" about half the time, in fact, and I believe there are
one or two other earlier Keystones where the correct title is "MABLE'
____".

I should also mention that while it is a pretty good educated guess
that Chaplin directed HIS TRYSTING PLACE(S) and a number of other
Keystones from late 1914, there does not seem to be concrete proof.
Both the negative record and the releases list (the only two known
primary sources for Keystone director credits) are missing director's
names for most of the last half of 1914. Lahue included Chaplin and
Arbuckle's names in his list as apparent educated guesses.

Brent Walker
 >> Stay informed about: HIS TRYSTING PLACE.... Or is It PLACES?