Talk me out of selling my DV824!!

All computers crash! It's not a question of "if" it's a question of
"when". I used Metacorder and now Boom Recorder and have seen it
happen with both. Stand-alone professional machines are much more
stable (with the exception of the DEVA, so I hear). Also, usually
more environmentally friendly in harsher conditions. Would you take
out your Mac in the desert or on the beach and be comfortable having
to depend on it? Also the computer screen can be very difficult to
see in bright sunlight. I would use it as a 3rd choice or just on
select jobs (stage, climate controlled, etc.) but I would only use it
as a safety machine. The previous comment on depending on firewire
and USB connections is also very important. If you do decide to use
your Mac/BR sort out some kind of "kick-out" protection!

Tim
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

And where did you hear this about the Deva being unstable? I've been
using them for over 8 years with NEVER a crash. I haven't 'heard'
it's a stable machine, I KNOW it's a stable machine.
Billy Sarokin

On Apr 9, 9:28 am, p3tim-inter... RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> All computers crash! It's not a question of "if" it's a question of
> "when". I used Metacorder and now Boom Recorder and have seen it
> happen with both. Stand-alone professional machines are much more
> stable (with the exception of the DEVA, so I hear).
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

Ooope, hit send before I finished....

But I do agree with your main point that all computers crash. My
recommendation to Robert would be if you go with a computer based
system, use a 2nd external drive and have a 2nd computer standing by
fully loaded with the same software and audio files. In that case,
any savings you realize by selling the DV824 would be lost in buying
additional hardware to make the computer based system semi reliable.
If you look at most consumer computers they are temperature rated from
40 degrees F to 80 degrees. Most stand alone field machines like the
Cantar and Deva easily operate from sub zero to 100 plus. I've had my
Deva out in northern Minnesota in winter (<-32 F working temps, plus
it lived in an unheated truck over night where temps dropped below
-40) to New Mexico desert temps of plus 100. I have a computer on my
cart (a Mac Mini) that I use for playback and recording additional
tracks and I've gone through 2 of them in less than 2 years (and I
carry a 3rd PC laptop just in case).

Anyway, I would only rely on a computer based system if I were doing
studio jobs and had the space to keep a 2nd one on the cart ready to
go at all times.
Billy
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

In article <1176125329.801774.108750.RemoveThis@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
p3tim-internet.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:

> All computers crash! It's not a question of "if" it's a question of
> "when".

> Stand-alone professional machines are much more
> stable (with the exception of the DEVA, so I hear).

I think the fundamental question, what do you give up computer vs.
dedicated machine, is answered most appropriately by looking at
reliability. ALL of the stand-alone dedicated machines are much more
stable (with the exception of the Fostex PD-6 which has been known to
shut down completely in high temperatures) compared to those systems
that utilize consumer computers and large scale operating systems. This
is not to say that a laptop based system (Mac OS or Windows) will not
work --- it will work well in almost all situations and, as pointed out,
many people are doing this. I personally would not like to give up the
100% reliability and stability of recording I have had over the last 10
years with the Deva and use a computer based system as my main recorder.

As with all of these discussions, often the best answer is arrived at by
talking with as many people as you can who have had long term
experience, a "track record", with the devices and methods, procedures
you are considering.

Regards, Jeff Wexler
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

You are right. If the SD is the primary recorder, so in the worst
case scenario he could continue working with that machine, than yes,
the computer based system would make an execellent deck for recording
the iso tracks. Though if it's a reality tv type show where the iso
tracks are as critical as the mix then I wouldn't recommend it.

On Apr 9, 3:22 pm, David Waelder <davidwaesha... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 4/9/07 8:17 AM, in article
> 1176131868.097179.260... DeleteThis @e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, "Billy Sarokin"
>
> <bigm... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
> > Anyway, I would only rely on a computer based system if I were doing
> > studio jobs and had the space to keep a 2nd one on the cart ready to
> > go at all times.
> > Billy
>
> A number of people have commented on the reliability advantage of a
> dedicated recorder over a computer based system and it's a valid
> consideration. But let's go back to the context of Rob's original question.
> He has a Sound Devices 744T that he is using as his primary recorder.
> Although there have been some growing pains with the 744, that is arguably a
> professional grade dedicated recorder. Maybe two dedicated recorders offer
> some additional security compared to one recorder and one computer based
> system but I should think the advantage is minimal.
>
> Of course, he is relying on the computer system for his ISO break-outs and a
> failure might prevent him from supplying that feature for part of a day's
> work. On the other hand, the additional funds from selling the Fostex might
> enable him to purchase something like the Lectrosonics miniature
> transmitters to add to a collection of regular size units. I think it all
> depends on what kind of work Rob does, how often he needs the ISO track
> break outs, how much other gear he already owns, and what kind of money he
> might realize from the sale of his 824. But any of the likely scenarios have
> him recording to two machines so I think the security of the basic track is
> reasonably solid.
>
> David Waelder
> (working e-mail is my name + wae, my server is earth link dot net_
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

On Apr 9, 11:17 am, "Billy Sarokin" <bigm... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:

> I have a computer on my
> cart (a Mac Mini) that I use for playback and recording additional
> tracks and I've gone through 2 of them in less than 2 years

What happened to them?

nvt
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

Both kept slowing down until they wouldn't boot. It took many tries
to reload them from the original Apple DVDs (one was and Intel Mac,
the other the original Mini). There was a specific message which is
fairly common but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I had
to do a full clean install. Very time consuming. I had to go online
to find the error message I was getting because just putting in the
Apple boot DVD would not get it started. If I remember the gory
details I'll post them.
Billy

On Apr 9, 8:47 pm, "Noah Timan" <dontwritemeher....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 9, 11:17 am, "Billy Sarokin" <bigm....RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I have a computer on my
> > cart (a Mac Mini) that I use for playback and recording additional
> > tracks and I've gone through 2 of them in less than 2 years
>
> What happened to them?
>
> nvt
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

Thanks, everyone. I think I'll wait to see what the second half of
the year brings. But I would like to know what people have heard of
the DV824 in extreme conditions. I have heard of the Deva track
record, and have witnessed the 744T handle a lot of abuse, and the
folks who worked with Art and his two DV824 on "Deja Vu" in Louisiana
said it handled that environment well, but I worry about harsh
conditions for a machine intitially designed to sit in a studio.
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

On 4/9/07 8:17 AM, in article
1176131868.097179.260180.RemoveThis@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, "Billy Sarokin"
<bigmaho.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:

> Anyway, I would only rely on a computer based system if I were doing
> studio jobs and had the space to keep a 2nd one on the cart ready to
> go at all times.
> Billy

A number of people have commented on the reliability advantage of a
dedicated recorder over a computer based system and it's a valid
consideration. But let's go back to the context of Rob's original question.
He has a Sound Devices 744T that he is using as his primary recorder.
Although there have been some growing pains with the 744, that is arguably a
professional grade dedicated recorder. Maybe two dedicated recorders offer
some additional security compared to one recorder and one computer based
system but I should think the advantage is minimal.

Of course, he is relying on the computer system for his ISO break-outs and a
failure might prevent him from supplying that feature for part of a day's
work. On the other hand, the additional funds from selling the Fostex might
enable him to purchase something like the Lectrosonics miniature
transmitters to add to a collection of regular size units. I think it all
depends on what kind of work Rob does, how often he needs the ISO track
break outs, how much other gear he already owns, and what kind of money he
might realize from the sale of his 824. But any of the likely scenarios have
him recording to two machines so I think the security of the basic track is
reasonably solid.

David Waelder
(working e-mail is my name + wae, my server is earth link dot net_
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

So far, FWIW, it has not shown any issues from the dust in New Mexico.
Going along just fine.

D.


"Robert Sharman" <sharmanfive.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1176171393.190869.65070@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thanks, everyone. I think I'll wait to see what the second half of
> the year brings. But I would like to know what people have heard of
> the DV824 in extreme conditions. I have heard of the Deva track
> record, and have witnessed the 744T handle a lot of abuse, and the
> folks who worked with Art and his two DV824 on "Deja Vu" in Louisiana
> said it handled that environment well, but I worry about harsh
> conditions for a machine intitially designed to sit in a studio.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

In article <1176169654.254300.247650.TakeThisOut@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"Billy Sarokin" <bigmaho.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:

> Both kept slowing down until they wouldn't boot. It took many tries
> to reload them from the original Apple DVDs (one was and Intel Mac,
> the other the original Mini). There was a specific message which is
> fairly common but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I had
> to do a full clean install. Very time consuming.

Please do try and remember what actually happened --- I have never heard
of any problem such as you describe with any of the Macs I have had (or
with anyone else's for that matter) --- quite odd.

I have had several experiences helping people out with their Macs that
have exhibited some of the symptoms you mention and in all these cases
the problem was the internal hard drive being full. The Mac OS is VERY
sensitive to this --- you must always have at the very least 1gb of free
drive space otherwise the machine and all of its applications will
behave very badly. Many people have filled their drives unknowingly well
past this limit --- the last person I helped out with this situation has
only 160 kb available on an 80 gb drive!

Regards, Jeff Wexler
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

On Apr 9, 9:47 pm, "Billy Sarokin" <bigm... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
> Both kept slowing down until they wouldn't boot.


I've found that a Mac OSX volume will run at 100% efficiency ONLY when
that volume is no more than 50% full. There's a gradual drop in
performance after that, until it slows to a halt when nearly full. I
see problems from overly-full HDs all the time too, usually it's email
attachments, iphoto, and itunes, that chew up available space. With
my powerbook (last revision), I noticed a significant improvement in
capture performance when I installed a Seagate 5400 rpm drive. Most
portable Macs come with these now.
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!! 

Hi Jeff,
When my first one went I tried all kinds of key presses at power up to
try and get some kind of error message. The boot up disk didn't
help. Finally I got a very weird screen with VERY strange text. It
seems like I inadvertantly got into some private programmers mode ( I
wrote this all down months ago, but can't find the notes... I'll keep
looking). The last line of this screen had an error message and when
I googled this message I found quite a few links and it seemed fairly
common. It was a file corruption issue that usually the Mac can
repair itself, but not always. It gave a few options to try before
doing a total reformat, but they didn't work, so I had to reformat the
drive and start fresh. The drive was nowhere near full (maybe 15 gigs
used on an 80 gig drive). I keep very little on these Macs - Boom
Recorder, Sound Studio, Microsoft Office for Mac, some jpg photos and
the software it came with. Possibly it was a virus, I get cds and
dvds from post all the time and I do go on line with the wifi link. I
originally thought the drive failed, but once I did a fresh re-install
it seems fine. I'll go through the 1000 of notes on my desk and find
the ones I scribbled on when I did this a couple of months ago.
Billy Sarokin



On Apr 9, 11:23 pm, Jeff Wexler <j....DeleteThis@jwsound.net> wrote:
> In article <1176169654.254300.247....DeleteThis@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> "Billy Sarokin" <bigm....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Both kept slowing down until they wouldn't boot. It took many tries
> > to reload them from the original Apple DVDs (one was and Intel Mac,
> > the other the original Mini). There was a specific message which is
> > fairly common but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I had
> > to do a full clean install. Very time consuming.
>
> Please do try and remember what actually happened --- I have never heard
> of any problem such as you describe with any of the Macs I have had (or
> with anyone else's for that matter) --- quite odd.
>
> I have had several experiences helping people out with their Macs that
> have exhibited some of the symptoms you mention and in all these cases
> the problem was the internal hard drive being full. The Mac OS is VERY
> sensitive to this --- you must always have at the very least 1gb of free
> drive space otherwise the machine and all of its applications will
> behave very badly. Many people have filled their drives unknowingly well
> past this limit --- the last person I helped out with this situation has
> only 160 kb available on an 80 gb drive!
>
> Regards, Jeff Wexler
 >> Stay informed about: Talk me out of selling my DV824!!