V for Vendetta

Istolta, it's very interesting to see someone who writes so smart have
such juvenile concepts. It seems like you're a very educated person on
some topic, but it's obviously not film.

Also, you spend so much of your argument pointing out the fact that
you're arguing that it really makes you appear less intelligent than
you are. Instead of that, I'd suggest defending your argument with more
crafty means. That's like an actor turning to the camera in a movie and
saying, "Hey, this is a movie, just letting you know."

Okay, so the numbers are things that you've said. The numbers with
letters are my replies. And...go!

1) What you need to consider is why, at this point in their career,
when the studios would fund any project the W.s chose to make a movie
of...?

1A) Because the studio wants to make money. That's the only reason
studios ever do anything.

2) Make no mistake about it. V. is not a good guy. He is a terrorist,
bent upon destroying society.

2A) So, what you're saying is that you like in the society in V for
Vendetta, i.e., you would consider living a happy life in that world?
If so, then you would definitely see V as a terrorist. That's because
terrorism is a subjective term which depends entirely on what point of
view you're coming from. If we lived in the world that V did, I'd want
terrorists like him to bring it down -- as did everyone else who
rallied at the end of the film.

Just as a side note: I thought you sounded intelligent when I started
reading your writing. But the more you talk the less you seem to know.

3) "Bound" lost money and besides that no one I know has even heard of
it, let along seen it.

3A) That's because Joel Silver and the Wachowski's set up a deal to
make Bound. If they could make Bound then it would prove to Warner
Bros. that they could handle a script like The Matrix. Oh, and by the
way, Bound is better reviewed on Rotten Tomatoes than any of the Matrix
films.

4) Truth can not be argued against successfully. But, it can be
misrepresented. And, if that fails, ignore it [the Truth] and hope no
one else notices that the Emperor has no clothes.

4A) And bla bla bla, Psychology 101, bla bla bla. How about that for a
debate trick? Making fun of the other person's hairstyle? I like it.

Okay, so all joking aside, your argument is based almost entirely on
opinion and lacks entirely of research other than what you've learned
in art class. Make some macaroni projects and call me when you're ready
to talk concisely, confidently, and intelligently.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

Wow. Maybe you're just insane.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

[WARNING ::: THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS ABOUT THE MOVIE "V FOR
VENDETTA"]

If I am insane, then, of course, just write off these inane ramblings
as those of a diseased mind.

But, some of you reading this just can't shake that itch, that feeling
in the middle of your brain that keep whispering in your inner ear...
what if this Istlota is right?

"You ever have that feeling when you're not sure if you're awake or
dreaming?"

"Welcome to the real world"

That is the rub, isn't it? The very definition of insanity is also an
accurate description of a world controlled by the Matrix .. not being
able to discern reality from fantasy.

Was Neo really the One? Or, was he just a disturbed young man having a
crazy dream [remember, he is asleep when we first see him]?

Morpheus's game plan at the end of Matrix Revolution explicitly tells
us how to beat the machine. Remember what he told the Council? He said
the One fights for us.

But, now V has come along and he has different advice. V says blow the
hell up out of everything. But, wait. Think for a minute. Doesn't V
sound like Commander Lock, you know, the man Niobe left Morpheus for?
Morpheus placed his faith in the One, and in the love he knew the One
had for us. The One would fight for us and he would not fail us.

But, V/Commander Lock, places his faith in the weapons of this physical
world. Are you sure you want to go down that particular rabbit hole?

Neo, the One, found the Wisdom to defeat the machine from a woman, the
Oracle. The Greek name for wisdom is Sophia, the name of the real
author of the Matrix. Sophia wrote herself into the story of the
Matrix, as the Oracle, to show the One, and us, the Way. The Way to
beat the machine.

Neo, the One, found the strength to beat the machine from a woman, from
his love for the woman in his life, Trinity. But, V thinks _he_ is the
woman. He slaps on his cute little black wig, and spends the whole
movie sashaying around the big screen, avoiding the advances of the
woman in his life, played by Natalie Portman. As a matter of fact, the
Ws even go one step further and shave Natalie's head. They effectively
change man [V] into woman and woman [Natalie Portman] into man.

V is not about love. V is about Ego, man loving his own image, the
machine loving its own image. There is no room for a real woman in that
sort of world vision.

But, yeah, I know, I am just an insane man. Best to ignore anything
this One says, right?

Istlota
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

Well, if V had the power to manipulate the the physical reality around
him, I'm sure he would have.

Remember when Niobe blew the power plant. That's terrorist activity.
And Morpheus was referred to as a terrorist by Smith, which probably
means that they had done terrorist activity before The Matrix's story
even began. But what looks like terrorist activity to one person is
freedom to another.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

mr_director,

I think I understand your point. In the Real World, even most of the
Good People believe physical violence is necessary to protect against
the Evil Doers. After all, the argument goes, even Dr. King was
considered a terrorist by the FBI. Certainly, Gandhi was considered a
terrorist by the British. And, likewise, Mandela was considered a
terrorist by the government of South America. That makes two Nobel
Peace Prize winners who were both considered terrorists by the forces
they were fighting against. So, the argument goes, sometimes we have to
adopt the ways of the terrorists to fight the terrorists.

That is the argument which V makes. And, it is also the message coming
out of the White House and from the Nightly News. And, yet, despite
this argument that flows throughout the entire V movie, you should be
aware that the Matrix movies present the exact opposite argument, which
is that we can only win when we allow the One to fight for us.

Let's closely examine Niobe's heroic feat which you brought up in your
last post. Yes, she, with Morpheus strapped into the chair beside her,
flew a ship [aptly named The Hammer] into Zion's dock and zapped all
the sentinels with an EMP [Electro-Magnetic Pulse]. Captain Mifune gave
his life to prepare the way for her ship. And, yet, when our heros
climbed out of the Hammer and stepped before Commander Lock, he let all
the air out of their bubble. Not only had the EMP zapped the sentinels,
it had also zapped all of Zion's defense machines, including the APUs
[Armored Personnel Units].

Here is the message from that scene of the Matrix. Even if we use
physical weapons to fight the machine, even if it seems we win a
temporary battle, our own weapons will be turned against us. We can not
beat the machine with the weapons of this physical realm, be they guns,
bombs, swords, cute black wigs, or whatever.

Zion could not beat the Machine until they were finally stripped of all
their weapons of this physical realm, and were left totally dependent
on the One to save them.

We think the Matrix trilogy was just a movie, just fantasy, and that it
was. But, it was also much more. Open your bible, flip to Revelations
20:9-10, and you will find the final battle of Matrix Revolutions
described. It is only when Zion is compassed about by the evil one and
his forces, when Zion appears helpless before all the amassed forces of
this physical realm, that fire comes down out of heaven from the One
and devours our enemies. We don't defeat them by adopting the ways of
the terrorists, the ways of V, the ways of W. We defeat them by
"choosing" [the Source's greatest gift to us, Free Will] to allow the
One to fight for us. It is how MLK overcame Bull Connor. It is Gandhi
overcame the British. It is how Mandela overcame Apartheid. And, it is
how we the Children of Zion will overcome the machine ... because we
choose to let the One fight for us:

"Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?"

"Because I choose to".

And, so, we persist until finally even the machine must bow and confess
the glory of the One, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End :

"Wait. I've seen this. This is it. This is the end."

"And I, I stand here, and I'm supposed to say something."

"I say:"

"EVERYTHING THAT HAS A BEGINNING HAS AN END, NEO."


Istlota

..
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

"So, the argument goes, sometimes we have to adopt the ways of the
terrorists to fight the terrorists."

No, the argument doesn't go that way. That's not what I said at all. I
said that there are no such things as "terrorists." Terrorism is
subjective. That's what I'm saying.

"...you should be aware that the Matrix movies present the exact
opposite argument, which is that we can only win when we allow the One
to fight for us."

Let us not forget that Neo did FIGHT Smith. Fight is the keyword. V
fought, too. Yay, comparisons.

"Let's closely examine Niobe's heroic feat which you brought up in your
last post. Yes, she, with Morpheus strapped into the chair beside her,
flew a ship [aptly named The Hammer] into Zion's dock and zapped all
the sentinels with an EMP [Electro-Magnetic Pulse]."

You can closely examine that scene all you want, but that is NOT the
scene that I brought up in my previous post. I said that Niobe blew up
the power plant. If I'm not mistaken, Zion isn't a power plant. It
might have a power plant in it, but (and correct me if I'm mistaken),
Zion is a city. Having said that, I was referring to the scene were, no
surprise here, Niobe blew up the power plant. That's terrorist
activity.

Moving on.

"Here is the message from that scene of the Matrix. Even if we use
physical weapons to fight the machine, even if it seems we win a
temporary battle, our own weapons will be turned against us."

That is not the message of that scene at all. If Morpehus wouldn't have
come through during that time then Zion would have been destoryed. The
message of that scene, and other scenes, and a thread throughout the
entire MATRIX film is the THE ONE isn't the one -- THE ONE is the MANY.
Without any of those key players -- Niobe, Morpheus, Trinity, Neo would
never have been able to get anywhere. I believe the Oracle even said
something like that at one point or another.

"It is only when Zion is compassed about by the evil one and his
forces, when Zion appears helpless before all the amassed forces of
this physical realm, that fire comes down out of heaven from the One
and devours our enemies."

"Compassed," a word that I've never heard of used in the context you
have provided means "to understand." So, your sentence reads, "It is
only when Zion is understand about by the evil one and his forces..."
Nope. That doesn't make sense.

"We don't defeat them by adopting the ways of the terrorists, the ways
of V, the ways of W. We defeat them by "choosing" [the Source's
greatest gift to us, Free Will] to allow the One to fight for us."

As previously mentioned, Morpheus, Trinity, and a whole bunch of other
colorful characters commit "terrorist" activity throughout the film --
from the Government Lobby to the Power Plant Explosion, there are
countless scenes that could be described as "terrorism." Without those
scenes, Neo would have never made it to the battle with Smith in
Revolutions, for that was the path of Neo. And, Neo could have never
done anything by himself.

"...because we choose to let the One fight for us: Because I choose
to".

That quote has nothing to do with letting someone else choose to fight
for us. Nothing whatsoever.

Please stop quoting random things that don't apply. Please stop
bringing up things that don't apply.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

*butts in for a moment*

mr_director wrote:
> "Compassed," a word that I've never heard of used in the context you
> have provided means "to understand." So, your sentence reads, "It is
> only when Zion is understand about by the evil one and his forces..."
> Nope. That doesn't make sense.

Makes perfect sense in his context - it means to encircle, surround.
More often rendered "compassed all about", I think, but still plain.

*butts out*

Carry on!
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

John Coxon wrote:

> Your main mistake, here, was assuming that we all (a) realised you were
> quoting a scripture and (b) assuming that we all knew it was taken from
> the King James edition.

For pete's sake, it's in dictionary.com, even. You guys should sue
whoever provided you with english lit instruction.

tr.v. com·passed, com·pass·ing, com·pass·es
To make a circuit of; circle: The sailboat compassed the island.
To surround; encircle. See Synonyms at surround.
To understand; comprehend.
To succeed in carrying out; accomplish. See Synonyms at reach.
To scheme; plot.


Synonyms: surround, circle, compass, encircle, encompass, environ,
gird, 1girdle, ring
1 These verbs mean to lie around and bound on all sides: Suburbs
surround the city. A crown circled the king's head. Fog compassed the
mountain peak. A belt encircled her waist. A lake encompassed the
island. The desert environed the oases. A deep moat girds the castle.
Flower gardens girdled the bird bath. Guests ringed the coffee table.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

> This may just be the most far-fetched connection ever posted in this
> group. You're on par with "He's the time program" thread. :-D

You are not alone in his disbelief. No one I have communicated with yet
gets any of what I am saying. And, yet, I must at least put the Word
out. That is my calling, the reason the Source led me out of the
Matrix.

"Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see
it for yourself." - Morpheus


Istlota
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

No, it doesn't make sense. The word choice is right, but in the
sentence he created, he should not have followed compassed with
"about." It doesn't make sense at all.

"It is only when Zion is encircled about by the evil one and his
forces..." About should be taken out and then it would work. That's
what I was talking about. I mentioned nothing about context, Mr. Robert.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

You don't even know your own words. Compassed is a perfectly fine word
to use! Just because it's old doesn't mean we can't use it (althought
that does apply to some really antediluvian words). You put about
after, that's what was wrong. It doesn't make sense.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

Forsooth John! Thou hast just made my day.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta 

>From American's point of view, yes. From another's, maybe not. It's how
you look at it. You can't argue that, really.
 >> Stay informed about: V for Vendetta