Wireless Link Levels Monitoring

On the network level, all of the camera people wear headphones and the sound
guys trust them. Not much to be gained from a wireless return link in my
book. Usually I've got two people wired or a wire and a boom so I'm not
gonna listen to a mono return from a beta cam anyway.


"Gerry Formicola" <gformicola.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6259cbd2.0411051855.5e5163dd@posting.google.com...
> Worked on a job last week where all of the cameras were wireless to
> their independent mixers. One of the things we talked about prior to
> the shoot is depending on our camera folks to be SURE that they had
> audio at the camera.
>
> Most of the mixers had a good relationship with their camera folks and
> knew that if the camera person said they were monitoring levels, they
> WERE monitoring levels.... yet the paranoid in nearly all of us said
> we all tried to stand behind and off to the left to catch a glimpse of
> the meters as often as possible.
>
> My question is what are people doing to monitor wireless links? One
> of the folks said he would throw a wireless IFB system on the
> headphone output and return that back to his bag. We all talked about
> how we had seen those meters that attach at the back of the camera in
> order to give a better visual of the levels.
>
> Just wondering what else people are doing.
>
> Gerry Formicola
>
> Chicago, Illinois
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

The beauty of the Zaxcom Stereo Tx/Rx combo as a wireless link is that you
can monitor your return with a Comtek, if you get any "hits " you know that
its definitely the Comtek!

-Jason

"Gerry Formicola" <gformicola RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6259cbd2.0411051855.5e5163dd@posting.google.com...
> Worked on a job last week where all of the cameras were wireless to
> their independent mixers. One of the things we talked about prior to
> the shoot is depending on our camera folks to be SURE that they had
> audio at the camera.
>
> Most of the mixers had a good relationship with their camera folks and
> knew that if the camera person said they were monitoring levels, they
> WERE monitoring levels.... yet the paranoid in nearly all of us said
> we all tried to stand behind and off to the left to catch a glimpse of
> the meters as often as possible.
>
> My question is what are people doing to monitor wireless links? One
> of the folks said he would throw a wireless IFB system on the
> headphone output and return that back to his bag. We all talked about
> how we had seen those meters that attach at the back of the camera in
> order to give a better visual of the levels.
>
> Just wondering what else people are doing.
>
> Gerry Formicola
>
> Chicago, Illinois
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

We all talked about
> how we had seen those meters that attach at the back of the camera in
> order to give a better visual of the levels.
>


Who makes these meters? Do you have any info?
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Hi Peter

BeachTek

We have one in stock at Sound Techniques.

Regards

Mike
www.soundtq.co.nz
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Charles Tomaras wrote:

> While I respect your committment, I've been doing this for a great many
> years. I use the best equipment I can afford, I regularly replace cables
> before they wear out and it's just never stung me. Same goes for shipping my
> mixer in the cargo hold. I'm willing to accept getting stung once or twice
> in my carreer for circumstances that I believe are not really in my control
> or my responsibility. If the camera operator switches to camera mic without
> telling me and doesn't switch back while operating wirelessly I would demand
> they accept responsibility for HIS/HER mistake. If the airlines lose my
> mixer it's just not my fault and I don't beleive a network would hold me
> responsible. I think sound people take on far too much responsibility for
> things that aren't there fault. I'm not a packmule nor am I responsible for
> what the camera operator does. I keep an eye on things and have pretty good
> production sense about what's going down. If the camera operator doesn't
> want to listen in a verite shooting situation he/she is not doing thier job.
> Furthermore I'm finding camera operators want less stuff hanging off thier
> cameras these days. I also get the feeling that this wireless return link
> must be a midwest or east coast thing because in all of my network days in
> the last 14 years I've NEVER seen a mixer using a return wireless link in
> the Seattle area or on big network gangbangs within my region where I have
> the opportunity to observe great numbers of other crews in action.
>
> Charles Tomaras
> Seattle, WA
>
>

Charles,

I doubt that it's a regional thing. For me, it's simply personal
preference. It's what makes me happy.


John Blankenship,
Indianapolis
(NOTE: My new email address is: my initials at mw daht net)
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

"John B., Indianapolis" <johntakethisout.DeleteThis@indytakethisout.net> wrote in message news:<418c6bc5$0$91006$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>...

> It works nicely as a confidence check.

John, if you are using the headphone output (which is what you
indicate by mentioning what the Sony cameras do to your return feed),
it is not a confidence check AFAIK -- you are only getting information
on inputs, not tape return.

Secondly, if you get a hit, how do you know whether or not it's a
Comtek hit or a Lectro hit?

nvt
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Noah Timan wrote:

> John, if you are using the headphone output (which is what you
> indicate by mentioning what the Sony cameras do to your return feed),
> it is not a confidence check AFAIK -- you are only getting information
> on inputs, not tape return.

Of course -- we all know that. It's E-E. But it's the same animal as
when we use a wired connection. You're only "confident" that the signal
is getting into the camera properly.


> Secondly, if you get a hit, how do you know whether or not it's a
> Comtek hit or a Lectro hit?

If I'm getting hits I check with the cameraman to see if he got the same
hit. If he says "I wasn't paying attention to the audio" I ask him to
do so. If he says "No hits" then I have increased confidence.

What I'm reading in a few messages here is that some people believe this
method shouldn't be used because it's not absolute, uncontrovertible
proof that the signal is being recorded properly. Quite frankly, when
you're working into a camera, you don't have such proof no matter what
method of checking you use unless you listen back to every inch of tape
you've recorded. I use a wireless return as simply an additional
confidence check, not the solution to world peace.


John Blankenship,
Indianapolis
(NOTE: My new email address is: my initials at mw daht net)
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

I look at is if the situation really requires the use of a wireless
link it is usually out of a matter of convenience. It frees up the
shooter to do moves and run that would normally not be done as often
unless it was a news gangbang. If the shooter refuses to wear
headphones, then he/she gets no wireless link, and will move as fast
as I move. I agree that it is their responsibility to monitor audio
quality during a wireless situation, but If it goes bad, I am the
soundman, and it will always end up being my ass. Wear them, or be
cabled, I don't care. After all an ENG crew is a team the last time I
checkd. The shooters demand that we help set and strike lights, then
the least they can do is wear headphone when a wireless link is
required !!!!!
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Charlie has it ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! We have enuf to worry about. If the
cameraperson can't wear headphones, then a sound problem at the camera ain't
my problem.

I am getting too old to be a packmule, QC engineer, confidant,
psychotherapist! I GUARANTEE the sound leaving my mixer is THE ABSOLUTE
BEST, the link there is the best $$$ can buy, the cables into the camera are
either new or checked very often. After that, there really is one other
person in the responsibility chain.

That said, I have been very lucky. Hardly ever burned by a bad mixer-camera
link. Yea, the onboard mic switch thing has happened a couple of times, but
that ain't my fault.

I however will never forgive the shooter who reaches up to adjust the pot on
the camera, because the first few words of something are a bit low. I
actually whacked one guy's hand with my boom. Needless to say I didn't work
with him again, but the producer got a big grin out of it.

Ranting finished!!!!!

cleve
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Cleve Massey wrote:
> That said, I have been very lucky. Hardly ever burned by a bad mixer-camera
> link. Yea, the onboard mic switch thing has happened a couple of times, but
> that ain't my fault.
>
> I however will never forgive the shooter who reaches up to adjust the pot on
> the camera, because the first few words of something are a bit low. I
> actually whacked one guy's hand with my boom. Needless to say I didn't work
> with him again, but the producer got a big grin out of it.
>
> Ranting finished!!!!!

I feel your pain. I've had both happen, shooters who flip mic switches
without comment and shooters who take it upon themselves to adjust the
audio levels. I'm happy to say I've worked with a lot of the others:
shooters who respect my audio skills and who work as a team. Bless them.


John Blankenship,
Indianapolis
(NOTE: My new email address is: my initials at mw daht net)
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Isn't this just a risk that a production run when they insist that you go
wireless?



"Noah Timan" <this_isnot_it.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cd345c55.0411081939.c93a33a@posting.google.com...
> "John B., Indianapolis" <johntakethisout.DeleteThis@indytakethisout.net> wrote in
> message news:<418c6bc5$0$91006$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>...
>
>> It works nicely as a confidence check.
>
> John, if you are using the headphone output (which is what you
> indicate by mentioning what the Sony cameras do to your return feed),
> it is not a confidence check AFAIK -- you are only getting information
> on inputs, not tape return.
>
> Secondly, if you get a hit, how do you know whether or not it's a
> Comtek hit or a Lectro hit?
>
> nvt
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

Adam Dransfield wrote:

> Isn't this just a risk that a production run when they insist that you go
> wireless?

That's what -I- tell em. I also tell em I'm an old guy and I believe in the
Church of the Copper Wire.

John
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring 

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:07:44 -0500, G. John Garrett, C.A.S wrote
(in article <cmpjeb$c2f$1@pcls4.std.com>):

> Adam Dransfield wrote:
>
>> Isn't this just a risk that a production run when they insist that you go
>> wireless?
>
> That's what -I- tell em. I also tell em I'm an old guy and I believe in the
> Church of the Copper Wire.
>
> John
>

Amen! And even that church can become bedeviled.

Ty



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
 >> Stay informed about: Wireless Link Levels Monitoring