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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:23 am
Post subject: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)
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Okay, this question has come up several times before but I thought it
was time to trot it out again. With a twist or two.
If you feel like it, answer the following questions:
1) What was the worst film ever to win the Oscar for Best Picture?
2) What film nominated that year would you have chosen instead?
3) What was the best film not even nominated for Best Picture?
I'll start it off:
1) There are a lot of contenders (I counted at least 24 possibilities),
but my choice has to be "Dances With Wolves."
2) Of the films nominated for Best Picture that year, I would have gone
for "GoodFellas" (keeping in mind that the best film made that year,
Barry Levinson's "Avalon," wasn't nominated for Best Picture).
3) The best film never nominated for Best Picture has to be Chaplin's
"City Lights."
Tom Moran |
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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1) Worst film? Depends on how you define. Least entertaining by
modern standards is probably Cimarron, or maybe Cavalcade, but I don't
consider either a wretchedly terrible movie-- just antiquated early
talkies (though more antiquated than many films of their same years,
but then that's probably true generally of the movies Oscar picks). I
find The Great Ziegfeld and Gigi completely unwatchable in terms of
lugubrious subject matter and gilt-edged MGM tedium, but that's just
me. And then there's Forrest Gump, which I won't repeat myself on.
On the other hand, sort of like Harriet Miers, there's nothing wrong
with The Greatest Show on Earth until you start trying to justify why
it deserves the highest prize of its year, or even to be on the list of
the top 100 candidates for same. If it was just another DeMille movie,
well, it's not as good as The Ten Commandments (which, fyi John
Harkness, did NOT win Best Picture) but a lot better than Samson and
Delilah, say.
2) Cimarron: City Lights. Cavalcade: King Kong. Great Ziegfeld: My
Man Godfrey. Gigi: Touch of Evil. Forrest Gump: Pulp Fiction.
3) Best single film not nominated for Best Picture? Geez, there we
have an embarassment of riches, and that's even before you get to
foreign films that one can't imagine having been remotely in
consideration, like the complete films of Ozu. I suppose if The Palm
Beach Story is my favorite movie, then it must be the answer, unless
it's The Searchers or It's a Gift or 2001 or Only Angels Have Wings or
The In-Laws or Strangers on a Train or... |
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:49 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 20 Oct 2005 01:23:44 -0700, "Feuillade" <Feuillade.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
>Okay, this question has come up several times before but I thought it
>was time to trot it out again. With a twist or two.
>
>If you feel like it, answer the following questions:
>
>1) What was the worst film ever to win the Oscar for Best Picture?
>
Cimmaron. I hate Dances With Wolves as much as the next guy, but you
really need to see Cimmaron. Also, on the short list, The Greatest
Show on Earth, The Ten Commandments, Tom Jones, The Dear Hunter,
>2) What film nominated that year would you have chosen instead?
>
Von Sternberg's Morocco, which was nominated for direction.
>3) What was the best film not even nominated for Best Picture?
The Searchers. (assuming that we're being realistic and limiting it to
American movies.) And a bunch of Howard Hawks movies. Touch of Evil.
Vertigo.
John Harkness
>
>I'll start it off:
>
>1) There are a lot of contenders (I counted at least 24 possibilities),
>but my choice has to be "Dances With Wolves."
>
>2) Of the films nominated for Best Picture that year, I would have gone
>for "GoodFellas" (keeping in mind that the best film made that year,
>Barry Levinson's "Avalon," wasn't nominated for Best Picture).
>
>3) The best film never nominated for Best Picture has to be Chaplin's
>"City Lights."
>
>Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:53 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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By the way, I think I've mentioned this before, but-- I ran across a
story that before they made Cavalcade, Fox sent its newsreel cameramen
in London over to film a performance of the stage production for
reference.
If ever a movie from a play felt like someone was checking the actual
stage production for reference before shooting each scene, boy...
I wonder if that version of Cavalcade survives, by the way? It would
certainly be interesting to compare a few scenes. Well, to the extent
that Cavalcade remains very interesting at all. (My advice is, if you
want to see Cavalcade, go see Forever and a Day, which is clearly
modeled on it, but much more entertaining.) >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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1. I think the worst film has to be either A Beautiful Mind or Kramer
vs. Kramer.
2. For 2001, it would have been Moulin Rouge. For 1978, I would pick
Being There.
3. Where do we start? City Lights, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly,
Rear Window, Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Touch of Evil, etc. I
think the Academy's obvious sign of self-masturbation is how never did
a Welles, Kubrick, Hitchcock (Rebecca is Selznick's movie), or Scorsese
film win Best Picture. Yet Ron Howard has an Oscar, as does Robert
Altman. I'd mention Chaplin, but he did at least get an Oscar for The
Circus.
Feuillade wrote:
> Okay, this question has come up several times before but I thought it
> was time to trot it out again. With a twist or two.
>
> If you feel like it, answer the following questions:
>
> 1) What was the worst film ever to win the Oscar for Best Picture?
>
> 2) What film nominated that year would you have chosen instead?
>
> 3) What was the best film not even nominated for Best Picture?
>
> I'll start it off:
>
> 1) There are a lot of contenders (I counted at least 24 possibilities),
> but my choice has to be "Dances With Wolves."
>
> 2) Of the films nominated for Best Picture that year, I would have gone
> for "GoodFellas" (keeping in mind that the best film made that year,
> Barry Levinson's "Avalon," wasn't nominated for Best Picture).
>
> 3) The best film never nominated for Best Picture has to be Chaplin's
> "City Lights."
>
> Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"1) Worst film? Depends on how you define. Least entertaining by
modern standards is probably Cimarron"
Gosh no--it's an amazing thing to see, once you discard any aesthetic
sense. Much better than the book, which consists of DESCRIPTIONS of the
action scenes. Study Richard Dix for a while and you'll know a lot
about the 30's, the way that Harrison Ford tells you a lot about the
90's.
And compared to the 60's remake, it's "Hell's Hinges". >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"When did a Robert Altman film win Best Picture? He's had two films
nominated (Gosford Park and Nashville) and he himself has been
nominated five times, but has never win."
He's in the running for the "Hawks/Hitchcock" award--best director
never to win a competitive award. Back when Faulkner won the Nobel
Prize, the University of Mississippi had its semi-annual discussion
about giving him an honorary degree, until one prof said that now it
was too late.
Fortunately, the academy has never been troubled by such thoughts, and
Altman will get his lifetime award, accompanied by a series of clips
that will put to shame every other movie nominated that year. >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Amen on BEAUTIFUL MIND. Ya gotta love a film about a guy who wins a
Nobel Prize yet they never bother to explain why he won it! Two
dreaduls as yet unmentioned: ORDINARY PEOPLE (RAGING BULL was the clear
winner that year) and TITANIC (shoulda gone to L.A. CONFIDENTIAL,
though my personal pick was Lumet's NIGHT FALLS ON MANHATTAN).
As for never nominated: in his Hawks biography, Todd McCarthy notes
that RIO BRAVO received no nominations in any category, yet the
following year's THE ALAMO, a much inferior film, received seven,
including Best Picture, because it was perceived as being "important."
But which of those two has survived as the authentic classic?
Mike S.
(who blames the Paul Muni crowd for the lack of support for SH! THE
OCTOPUS!)
Mike S. >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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There is nothing Hollywood does worse than movies about math. (See
Good Will Hunting, Proof, even the indie Pi which, like Good Will
Hunting, suggests that you have to abandon the life of the mind to find
happiness, a notion that any real mathematician would find absurd.)
That said, I kind of admire moments when Hollywood votes for
well-crafted bread and butter over art, like giving it to Titanic over
the (genuinely terrific) LA Confidential. It's honest, honoring a
superior hunk of cheese like that, in a way that honoring a
pseudo-serious movie like A Beautiful Mind is not.
Of course, you could turn that around on me and justify Forrest
frickin' Gump, too. >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 20 Oct 2005 08:40:24 -0700, "Patrick McCart" <pmccart RemoveThis @tds.net>
wrote:
>1. I think the worst film has to be either A Beautiful Mind or Kramer
>vs. Kramer.
>
>2. For 2001, it would have been Moulin Rouge. For 1978, I would pick
>Being There.
>
>3. Where do we start? City Lights, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly,
>Rear Window, Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Touch of Evil, etc. I
>think the Academy's obvious sign of self-masturbation is how never did
>a Welles, Kubrick, Hitchcock (Rebecca is Selznick's movie),
Take another look at Rebecca. It's as much Hitchock as it is Selznick.
> or Scorsese
>film win Best Picture. Yet Ron Howard has an Oscar, as does Robert
>Altman. I'd mention Chaplin, but he did at least get an Oscar for The
>Circus.
When did a Robert Altman film win Best Picture? He's had two films
nominated (Gosford Park and Nashville) and he himself has been
nominated five times, but has never win.
John Harkness
>
>
>Feuillade wrote:
>> Okay, this question has come up several times before but I thought it
>> was time to trot it out again. With a twist or two.
>>
>> If you feel like it, answer the following questions:
>>
>> 1) What was the worst film ever to win the Oscar for Best Picture?
>>
>> 2) What film nominated that year would you have chosen instead?
>>
>> 3) What was the best film not even nominated for Best Picture?
>>
>> I'll start it off:
>>
>> 1) There are a lot of contenders (I counted at least 24 possibilities),
>> but my choice has to be "Dances With Wolves."
>>
>> 2) Of the films nominated for Best Picture that year, I would have gone
>> for "GoodFellas" (keeping in mind that the best film made that year,
>> Barry Levinson's "Avalon," wasn't nominated for Best Picture).
>>
>> 3) The best film never nominated for Best Picture has to be Chaplin's
>> "City Lights."
>>
>> Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Feuillade 10/20/05 3:23 AM
> 1) What was the worst film ever to win the Oscar for Best Picture?
There are so many: Cavalcade, Forrest Gump, Kramer vs. Kramer...
I guess I will have to go with The Greatest Show on Earth
>2) What film nominated that year would you have chosen instead?
High Noon
> 3) What was the best film not even nominated for Best Picture?
City Lights
JN >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Stott wrote:
> precode wrote:
>
> >Amen on BEAUTIFUL MIND. Ya gotta love a film about a guy who wins a
> >Nobel Prize yet they never bother to explain why he won it! Two
> >dreaduls as yet unmentioned: ORDINARY PEOPLE (RAGING BULL was the clear
> >winner that year) and TITANIC (shoulda gone to L.A. CONFIDENTIAL,
> >though my personal pick was Lumet's NIGHT FALLS ON MANHATTAN).
> >
> >
> OK, it wasn't an Oscar picture, but Ordinary People isn't exactly
> DREADFUL- at least it wasn't at the time, tastes change. As I recall it
> had a great performance by Donald Sutherland (after a string of awful
> ones) and showed that Mary Tyler Moore could play an unsympathetic role.
> (As my mom said "I never would have thought I'd HATE Mary Tyler
> Moore"). A lot of big pictures lose their luster- The Good Earth was
> a prize winning novel and a blockbuster picture- nobody talks about
> either of them much. About the only time I hear the film mentioned is to
> point out that Hollywood would NEVER make a Chinese picture with
> Caucasian leads nowadays.
>
> Stott
Nitpick: I'm not really seeing what I would call 'a string of awful
performances' prior to OP >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> > 1) What was the worst film ever to win the Oscar for Best Picture?
My vote goes to THE GREAT ZIEGFIELD.
> >
> > 2) What film nominated that year would you have chosen instead?
It should have gone to "LIBELED LADY", which still holds up well today,
with "DODSWORTH" the closert runner up after that.
> > 3) What was the best film not even nominated for Best Picture?
In order of personal preference, it's a shame "THESE THREE", "MODERN
TIMES", "FURY", and "SWING TIME" didn't make the cut.
>
>Karen Alters >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 20 Oct 2005 10:54:51 -0700, "tomcervo" <tomcervo.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
>"When did a Robert Altman film win Best Picture? He's had two films
>nominated (Gosford Park and Nashville) and he himself has been
>nominated five times, but has never win."
>
>He's in the running for the "Hawks/Hitchcock" award--best director
>never to win a competitive award.
There's a difference, though -- Hitchcock and Altman were regularly
acknowledged -- Hitch had six nominations, Altman five, Hawks exactly
one.
Hell, Hawks only got three nominatons from the DGA, all for his
Westerns.
He may be the most extreme case of a director who was not on the
cultural radar through his entire career -- it took the French to
recognize him for what he was.
John Harkness >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Which leads to the question: how is it that Gene Hackman is great, no
matter WHAT picture he is in? He somehow knows when to underplay the
part, and when he needs to play up, how to play the hero, when to be
the cad, when to chew scenery and when to hide.
He single-handedly gives legitimacy to an otherwise incredibly stupid
The Poseidon Adventure.
I can never remember a stinker, although playing Lex Luthor was one of
his times he couldn't do anything. I think that was a true case of:
"there's no way I can help this picture, so I just say my lines and I'm
out of here." >> Stay informed about: Worst Film That Won and Best Film Never Nominated |
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