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_Woman of the Sea_-- More Info

 
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Constance Kuriyama

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Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 87



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:50 pm
Post subject: _Woman of the Sea_-- More Info
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)

In the back of Jeff Vance's new book is an excerpt from the Richard
Meryman interview with Chaplin which was not included in the selection
published in _Life_. In this excerpt Chaplin is asked directly about
the film:

RM: You gave the idea of _A Woman of the Sea_ to Josef von Sternberg,
didn't you?

CC: Yes. After _A Woman of Paris_, Edna [Purviance] wanted to make a
picture on her own, and I said fine, as I was getting to where I
wanted another character for my films. So von Sternberg used to hang
around, and I said, well, I've got an idea. If you can make a picture
with Edna it would help me out, and he said he would. I had a sketchy
idea. I'd been up to Carmel, Monterey, and Seventeen Mile Drive--very
beautiful coastline, rugged, with the waves coming up--and I started
to think of all sorts of gags. Edna was getting a little robust and
bosomy, and I thought she'd make a wonderful fisherman's wife . . . .
So Sternberg said, "Don't tell me any more, that's enough." In those
das we didn't have a script, just the story. But he came back with the
most perile, infantile story of a man from the city with a
moustache--the heavy--hanging around and peeking through fishermen's
nets, looking at Edna. And Edna played this infantile woman just
walking around. I said, that's not a fisherman's wife! I wanted to see
a woman with a squint and the ocean in her eyes. We lost about $60,000
in cost.

RM: Do you still have the film?

CC: No, I burned it. I didn't want it around. I was completely at a
loss about the whole thing, and it depressed me.

So it appears that the story was both Chaplin's and Sternberg's, and
that Sternberg's contribution, which was most of it, was not at all
what Chaplin had in mind. Chaplin wanted a comedy; Sternberg made a
melodrama. Grierson's account was correct. This is also consistent
with Rollie Totheroh's comments in the interview with Tim Lyons, in
which he recalls that Chaplin suggested adding humorous touches to
Sternberg, but Sternberg had an odd sense of what was funny (that is,
it wasn't funny).

Connie K.

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George Shelps

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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: _Woman of the Sea_-- More Info [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Constance Kuriyama wrote:

>So von Sternberg used to hang around,
>and I said, well, I've got an idea. If you
>can make a picture with Edna it would
>help me out, and he said he would. I had
>a sketchy idea. I'd been up to Carmel,

Chaplin contributed the setting but
Sternberg wrote the story.


>Chaplin suggested adding humorous
>touches to Sternberg, but Sternberg had
>an odd sense of what was funny (that is,
>it wasn't funny).

Sternberg never did have much of a
sense of humor and the comedy scenes
in his films were weak and sappy at times.

Yet he was not just "hanging around.:

Chaplin had set him up with Mary
Pickford to do a script about a blind
girl called BACKWASH. Pickford
thought it was too strange and decided
not to do it. Then Sternberg got two
directing jobs at MGM and was
fired from both. Chaplin stepped
in with A WOMAN OF THE SEA and
delivered the coup de grace that
put Sternberg back in the ranks of
assistant directors.









__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner

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Constance Kuriyama

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Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 87



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: _Woman of the Sea_-- More Info [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

G-HELPS DeleteThis @webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote in message news:<12747-3FC3F8FF-400 DeleteThis @storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> Constance Kuriyama wrote:
>
> >So von Sternberg used to hang around,
> >and I said, well, I've got an idea. If you
> >can make a picture with Edna it would
> >help me out, and he said he would. I had
> >a sketchy idea. I'd been up to Carmel,
>
> Chaplin contributed the setting but
> Sternberg wrote the story.

I left out some of Chaplin's description where you see the ellipsis,
because it was lengthy, and Jeff's book is rather too large to type
from comfortably.
Chaplin contributed not just the setting but a concept of the film in
general and of Edna's character in particular. Sternberg's story
didn't match Chaplin's concept.

> >Chaplin suggested adding humorous
> >touches to Sternberg, but Sternberg had
> >an odd sense of what was funny (that is,
> >it wasn't funny).
>
> Sternberg never did have much of a
> sense of humor and the comedy scenes
> in his films were weak and sappy at times.
>
> Yet he was not just "hanging around.:
>
> Chaplin had set him up with Mary
> Pickford to do a script about a blind
> girl called BACKWASH. Pickford
> thought it was too strange and decided
> not to do it. Then Sternberg got two
> directing jobs at MGM and was
> fired from both. Chaplin stepped
> in with A WOMAN OF THE SEA and
> delivered the coup de grace that
> put Sternberg back in the ranks of
> assistant directors.

It sounds to me as if Sternberg was having trouble pleasing everyone
he was working for at this particular time, not just Chaplin. Luckily,
this phase of his career didn't last.

Connie K.
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David Totheroh

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Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 144



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:09 pm
Post subject: Re: _Woman of the Sea_-- More Info [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

G-HELPS DeleteThis @webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote in message news:<12747-3FC3F8FF-400 DeleteThis @storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> Constance Kuriyama wrote:
>
> >So von Sternberg used to hang around,
> >and I said, well, I've got an idea. If you
> >can make a picture with Edna it would
> >help me out, and he said he would. I had
> >a sketchy idea. I'd been up to Carmel,
>
> Chaplin contributed the setting but
> Sternberg wrote the story.
>
>
> >Chaplin suggested adding humorous
> >touches to Sternberg, but Sternberg had
> >an odd sense of what was funny (that is,
> >it wasn't funny).
>
> Sternberg never did have much of a
> sense of humor and the comedy scenes
> in his films were weak and sappy at times.
>
> Yet he was not just "hanging around.:
>
> Chaplin had set him up with Mary
> Pickford to do a script about a blind
> girl called BACKWASH. Pickford
> thought it was too strange and decided
> not to do it. Then Sternberg got two
> directing jobs at MGM and was
> fired from both. Chaplin stepped
> in with A WOMAN OF THE SEA and
> delivered the coup de grace that
> put Sternberg back in the ranks of
> assistant directors.

Let me see if I've got this right. After delivering a box office bomb
(his first work as a director), Chaplin set him up with Pickford for a
project he developed which she thought "too strange" to produce, he
then got fired from 2 other directing jobs. You say he didn't have
much of a sense of humor (totally consistent with the primary reason
Rollie reports he thought AWotS was a dog). Every report of those who
viewed the film report an incomprehensible mess, yet you tell us it's
unreasonable to assume AWotS might well not be a significant work of
art simply because Sternberg LATER directed important films. Is that
close?
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George Shelps

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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: _Woman of the Sea_-- More Info [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

DTotheroh wrote:

>Let me see if I've got this right. After
>delivering a box office bomb (his first >work as a director), Chaplin
set him up
>with Pickford for a project he developed
>which she thought "too strange" to
>produce, he then got fired from 2 other
>directing jobs. You say he didn't have
>much of a sense of humor (totally
>consistent with the primary reason Rollie
>reports he thought AWotS was a dog).
>Every report of those who viewed the
>film report an incomprehensible mess,
>yet you tell us it's unreasonable to
>assume AWotS might well not be a
>significant work of art simply because
>Sternberg LATER directed important
>films. Is that close?

"Later" being one year later.

I don't care what Chaplin's employee (Rollie) or a documentary
film-maker (John Grierson) thought of the film.

I believe also that Chaplin suppressed
the film because he didn't like the way
Edna came across.

All of which almost killed Sternberg's career completely---a pretty good
early
example of Hollywood cruelty.

Sternberg--one year later--made
UNDERWORLD, which was a smash
hit (the first gangster film) and he went on
for eight years to direct many memorable
pictures, THE LAST COMMAND, THE
DOCKS OF NEW YORK, THE BLUE
ANGEL, MOROCCO, SHANGHAI
EXPRESS...wonderful movies.

I think it is reasonable to infer that
A WOMAN OF THE SEA was an
example of his talent in latent
form right before this explosion
of creativity,

Attempting to justify its suppression
is just Chaplin-can-do-no-wrongism
at its worst.









__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner
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