actors replaced when/after shooting starts

Calvin wrote:
> On Oct 30, 2:45 pm, moviePig wrote:
>> ...
>> Recap: Jim Beaver said that 'fairness' was better when given than
>> when received... and went on to include 'forgiveness' as well. I
>> rejoined that they indeed seem similar to me, in that (in my
>> experience) both are largely imaginary. However, I also acknowledged
>> that someone who (as Jim advises) seeks to *provide* those qualities,
>> may not only be, in some higher sense, Good, but may also derive a few
>> practical benefits as well... such as a generally more clearheaded and
>> unburdened existence...
>
> Just to provide sort of a baseline on the subject of fairness,
> I think most of us are familiar with sporting events. The
> athletes expect fairness from the referees, who profess to
> be fair in their judgments.
>

I'd say the athletes expect accuracy more than fairness from a game's
referees.

If an ump honestly but carelessly calls a ball a strike and then
realizes his mistake, it seems only fair that on the next pitch he
should call a strike a ball. Right? That's fair, isn't it?

No, of course not. Neither team wants that, really, even though I think
it's probably done occasionally. Teams (and fans too) expect/demand
accuracy and consistency from their referees in applying the rules --
they can't demand fairness. "Play fair, everybody" isn't one of the rules.

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:44:13 -0400, Bill Anderson
wrote:

>I'd say the athletes expect accuracy more than fairness from a game's
>referees.

According to Bill Russell, who can be considered an authority on the
subject, what the athlete wants is consistency. And, Russell underscores
the point by noting, even if the ref is completely incompetent, if he
**always** misses the call, the players will accept him ..
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George Peatty wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:44:13 -0400, Bill Anderson
> wrote:
>
>> I'd say the athletes expect accuracy more than fairness from a game's
>> referees.
>
> According to Bill Russell, who can be considered an authority on the
> subject, what the athlete wants is consistency. And, Russell underscores
> the point by noting, even if the ref is completely incompetent, if he
> **always** misses the call, the players will accept him ..

Coulda sworn I said something like that in my post. Must have been
snipped accidentally.

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

David Oberman wrote:
> Calvin wrote:
>
>
>>That eliminates Mr. Schultz as one of our edifiers.
>
>
> Richard has a sesquipedalian streak, there is no doubt.

Well, I don't care if he *does* have seven feet, he still uses long
words! ;)

Derek Janssen
ejanss1 RemoveThis @verizon.net
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In rec.arts.movies.past-films David Oberman wrote:

: I thought Rule #6 is:
:
: See Rule #1.

Rule #2 is "If the boss is wrong, see rule #1."

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.DeleteThis@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system
of government."
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:

:> (3) Instead of posting your angry and vicious responses (it was *you* who
:> compared *me* to a Nazi, which comparison is quite simply slanderous;
:
: All I said was, "... not unlike those heel-clickers who wore
: swastikas" and, as I told you before, I retracted that in the
: exchange with 'smee' in the same thread.

And as I told *you* before, you did not retract the statment. You said
that it was unnecessary, which is not the same thing as admitting that
it is untrue.

:> (4) Try to get it through your head that not every joke made in this
:> newsfroup is made at your expense, nor is every allusion that goes over your
:> head made to show that it went over your head.
:
: I never said or thought or implied that.

Yes you did, but let that pass.

: It is the vicious way that
: you and others react when one does not get a joke, or allusion,
: or put-on, or sarcasm, that I have found to be extremely
: humiliating and unfair. I also think it's awful when someone
: else puts me down for such things and then you come running to
: pile on. It was he who 'caught' me, not you, but you feel you
: must join in the fun at my expense.

The one who "caught" you for not getting my allusion to "No Man" was
me when I posted that I had slapped my hand against my forehead in
disbelief when you indicated that you had taken it seriously.

:> (5) Try to understand that other people have definitions of "fairness" that
:> differ from yours, and do not feel it "unfair" to point out to someone who
:> is behaving like a fool that he is behaving like a fool.
:
: That's not what I think is unfair.

Let me guess -- what you think is unfair is that you get to behave in any
way you want to, but if anyone should behave in a similar fashion, that is
simply Not Allowed.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.TakeThisOut@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

In rec.arts.movies.past-films David Oberman wrote:
: Calvin wrote:

:>That eliminates Mr. Schultz as one of our edifiers.
:
: Richard has a sesquipedalian streak, there is no doubt.

Only when the context calls for it. In general, I believe that
Strunk and White's _Elements of Style_ is as good a writing guide as
has been written.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr DeleteThis @mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"I've lost my harmonica, Albert."
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

Calvin wrote:
> On Oct 30, 2:45 pm, moviePig wrote:
>> ...
>> Recap: Jim Beaver said that 'fairness' was better when given than
>> when received... and went on to include 'forgiveness' as well. I
>> rejoined that they indeed seem similar to me, in that (in my
>> experience) both are largely imaginary. However, I also acknowledged
>> that someone who (as Jim advises) seeks to *provide* those qualities,
>> may not only be, in some higher sense, Good, but may also derive a few
>> practical benefits as well... such as a generally more clearheaded and
>> unburdened existence...
>
> Just to provide sort of a baseline on the subject of fairness,
> I think most of us are familiar with sporting events. The
> athletes expect fairness from the referees, who profess to
> be fair in their judgments.
>
> Sports metaphors are commonly used in reference to life
> situations, so there is this common basic understanding of
> fairness among us. Of course there may be others.


You still strike me as a foul ball, though.
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:
: On Oct 30, 4:39 pm, schu....DeleteThis@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:
:> :> (3) Instead of posting your angry and vicious responses (it was *you* who
:> :> compared *me* to a Nazi, which comparison is quite simply slanderous;

:> : All I said was, "... not unlike those heel-clickers who wore
:> : swastikas" and, as I told you before, I retracted that in the
:> : exchange with 'smee' in the same thread.

:> And as I told *you* before, you did not retract the statment. You said
:> that it was unnecessary, which is not the same thing as admitting that
:> it is untrue.

: This is what I said, which is equivalent to a retraction,
: since I said my behavior was 'reformed':
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
: It's true that I referred to Mr. Schultz
: in Nazi terms, but that was quite unnecesary, merely tacked
: onto what I had said about his harsh manner.

Unless you have some definition of "retraction" not consistent with that
used in common parlance, the above is not a retraction. You do not
say that it was wrong for you to have compared me to a Nazi, either on
the grounds that there is no basis for such a comparison or on the grounds
that it was morally wrong for you to have done so; you merely state that the
comparison was "unnecesary" [sic] because you had already said everything
that you needed to say (I was going to say "supernumerary," but you probably
would have objected to my use of a word of more than three syllables).


:> Let me guess -- what you think is unfair is that you get to behave in any
:> way you want to, but if anyone should behave in a similar fashion, that is
:> simply Not Allowed.
:
: No, that's not it either.

Well, from your behavior here, it sure seems that way.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.DeleteThis@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"I love people. But I don't suffer fools gladly."
-- Deborah Lipstadt
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:
: On Oct 30, 4:28 pm, le....TakeThisOut@my-deja.com wrote:

:> Don "Red" Barry was set to star with Otto Kruger, Eric Blore and Percy
:> Helton in IN SADDLE, OUT SADDLE, SIDE SADDLE (1943), directed by James
:> Whale (who took over when H. Bruce Humberstone caught the flu) but his
:> draft number came up and he was replaced by Johnny Mack Brown after a
:> day of filming.

: I think Mr. Schultz missed that whole thread. A pity, for him.
: He would have loved it.

There was a thread about _In Saddle, Out Saddle, Side Saddle_? That
would have been interesting. Or do you mean that there was a thread
about James Whale? That would probably have been more interesting.
I regret having missed whichever of those threads you were referring to.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.TakeThisOut@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and
if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

In rec.arts.movies.past-films Derek Janssen wrote:
: David Oberman wrote:

:> Richard has a sesquipedalian streak, there is no doubt.
:
: Well, I don't care if he *does* have seven feet, he still uses long
: words! ;)

You'd better tell the good people of the State of Minnesota that next
year, when they celebrate the sesquicentennial of Minnesota's admission
to the union, they will be doing so 550 years too early.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.RemoveThis@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:

: Just to provide sort of a baseline on the subject of fairness,
: I think most of us are familiar with sporting events. The
: athletes expect fairness from the referees, who profess to
: be fair in their judgments.

If that is your baseline for fairness, then it is not clear to me on
what basis you claim to have been treated unfairly here. As far as I
can tell, you are treated pretty much like everyone else. If people make
fun of you for making a fool of yourself more often than they do to others,
that is because you make a fool of yourself more often than others do, not
because you are being treated any differently.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.TakeThisOut@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"To be, or not to be, I there's the point,
To Die, to sleepe, is that all? I all;
No, to sleepe, to dreame, I mary there it goes. . ."
 >> Stay informed about: actors replaced when/after shooting starts 

On Oct 31, 12:53 am, schu... DeleteThis @mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:
> : On Oct 30, 4:39 pm, schu... DeleteThis @mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
> :> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Calvin wrote:
> :> :> (3) Instead of posting your angry and vicious responses (it was *you* who
> :> :> compared *me* to a Nazi, which comparison is quite simply slanderous;
> :> : All I said was, "... not unlike those heel-clickers who wore
> :> : swastikas" and, as I told you before, I retracted that in the
> :> : exchange with 'smee' in the same thread.
> :> And as I told *you* before, you did not retract the statment. You said
> :> that it was unnecessary, which is not the same thing as admitting that
> :> it is untrue.
> : This is what I said, which is equivalent to a retraction,
> : since I said my behavior was 'reformed':
> : ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> : It's true that I referred to Mr. Schultz
> : in Nazi terms, but that was quite unnecesary, merely tacked
> : onto what I had said about his harsh manner.
>
> Unless you have some definition of "retraction" not consistent with that
> used in common parlance, the above is not a retraction.

'The above' is not all I said. You left out the important part,
which I took pains to give in full.

> You do not
> say that it was wrong for you to have compared me to a Nazi, either on
> the grounds that there is no basis for such a comparison or on the grounds
> that it was morally wrong for you to have done so; you merely state that the
> comparison was "unnecesary" [sic] because you had already said everything
> that you needed to say (I was going to say "supernumerary," but you probably
> would have objected to my use of a word of more than three syllables).

No, I said my behavior was 'instantly reformed', and that is
equivalent to a retraction.
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