4 channel mixer with a flash card

I think all this sounds great, but agree that the problem would be the
complexity of the software, and the fact that such a device could
probably not fit into one of the "platform" boxes that SD already uses.
Such a device that was as small as a 744 would be too hard for me to
use, and the idea of having to scroll thru enough menus to program a 6
chan version of a 442 with programmable direct outs AND all the menus
for a 744 makes me think they would need to provide a way of doing the
setups on a computer and then uploading them to the machine (like
programming a synth). WAY too many interactive parameters for a tiny
LCD.

Philip Perkins
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I actually think that the manufacturers are sure that they can't make
us all happy, hence the a la carte approach of SD. I think we'll
always be experimenting and hot-rodding our setups.

Philip Perkins
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

"Courtney Goodin" wrote in message

>
> "John" wrote in message
>
>> Can't wait to see Zaxcoms new mini audio recorder. I use their stereoline
>> now for camera links and presently no dual system, relying on the
>> cameraman
>> to monitor via headphones, not the best as most bar 2 that I have worked
>> with don't want to do this. (use this on run and gun type reality stuff)
>>
>> What I really want is a simple 4 channel mixer eg, PSC M4 type with the
>> type
>> of ZFR100 Miniature Audio Recorder built in.
>>
>> How cool would a 4 channel mixer with a flash slot in the side be?
>>
>> Come on Zaxcom, PSC?... how about a hybrid product!
>>
>> John.
>
>
>
> I would think that Sound Devices would be the perfect company to come out
> with such a product.
> Since they already make one of the most compact digital recorders and
> well respected 4 channel mixers in the world of ENG or Reality style
> production.
>
> Their new 702T recorders could easily be incorporated into their 442 mixer
> electronics and achieve a compound unit with Stereo CF recording. . The
> main problem with a machine of this sort is the menu/firmware and support
> it would require. The complexity of all the flavors of digital recording
> with Time Code (over 700 possible variations on file and TC formats) make
> the idea of a simple recorder/mixer combo a difficult task to achieve at a
> reasonable price.. I guess if they dropped the Digital I/O and Word Sync a
> lot of panel space and menu items could be removed.
> ---Courtney

What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
record 4 iso's and a mix.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

"Philip Perkins" wrote in message

>I think all this sounds great, but agree that the problem would be the
> complexity of the software, and the fact that such a device could
> probably not fit into one of the "platform" boxes that SD already uses.
> Such a device that was as small as a 744 would be too hard for me to
> use, and the idea of having to scroll thru enough menus to program a 6
> chan version of a 442 with programmable direct outs AND all the menus
> for a 744 makes me think they would need to provide a way of doing the
> setups on a computer and then uploading them to the machine (like
> programming a synth). WAY too many interactive parameters for a tiny
> LCD.

One would only pray that if SD were to do it they would go for a slightly
larger 442 type of layout and not the 744 type of layout. As long as it was
smaller and lighter than both of those devices combined which are currently
crammed in my bag I'd be happy.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

"Philip Perkins" wrote in message

>I actually think that the manufacturers are sure that they can't make
> us all happy, hence the a la carte approach of SD. I think we'll
> always be experimenting and hot-rodding our setups.


If that's true how about making stuff modular so it actually fits together
and interfaces properly? Give me a 6 channel recorder that is the same width
as my 442 and has inputs near the outputs and outputs near the inputs and
headphone outs on the same side, power inputs on the same side etc etc. I
think the manufactures could benefit from moving in this sort of direction
for separate components. Instead we got batteries that stick out the bottom,
little Engh boxes and BDS's with switches on one side connectors on the
other etc etc.

I REALLY believe that if someone made a truly integrated solution that
included mixing, recording, multiple analog outputs and returns, ability to
select what channels are output to IFB and Transcription and communications,
they would be able to sell enough to earn their keep. I'm ready to pony up
for one of those! Who knows...maybe I'll be surprised at NAB.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

Charles Tomaras wrote:
>
> One would only pray that if SD were to do it they would go for a slightly
> larger 442 type of layout and not the 744 type of layout.


While we're at it, lets go ahead and ask for 5 or 6 inputs.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message

> Charles Tomaras wrote:
>>
>> One would only pray that if SD were to do it they would go for a slightly
>> larger 442 type of layout and not the 744 type of layout.
>
>
> While we're at it, lets go ahead and ask for 5 or 6 inputs.

I'd settle for the ability to route the bus in to channels 5 and 6 of the
hypothetical recorder.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

This is a great idea - but not as cumbersome and power hungry as a PD-6

>What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
> record 4 iso's and a mix.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

"John Aldridge" wrote in message

> This is a great idea - but not as cumbersome and power hungry as a PD-6
>
> >What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
>> record 4 iso's and a mix.
>

What would set the above apart from other similar ideas is the 442's ability
to interface to the outside world via the plethora of analog output options
it has. Nobody seems to want to make REAL field mixer with a built in
recorder that could serve the ENG and Indie world.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

"John Aldridge" wrote in message

> This is a great idea - but not as cumbersome and power hungry as a PD-6
>
> >What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
>> record 4 iso's and a mix.
>
>

Let's not go overboard. How about a 2 Track w/TC CF recorder built into a
slightly thicker 442 case that allows room for a front mounted CF slot and 2
line Alphanumeric LCD for Menu/TC and Status display. and a C-Link output to
drive a 744T in unison for 4 Track Iso's if you want them. That way those
who wanted could use their current or a rented 744T in conjunction to get
the 4 ISOs on one CF card and Hard Drive, and a 2 Track Stereo Mix for
Telecine or Transcription from the Mixer/Recorder combo.. Or if you like 2
more ISOs on a second CF card. That would be the most flexible package and
give you the functionality of the PD-6 (with CF instead of DVD-RAM media).
in a much smaller and more efficient package.

The 442 with a 2 Track built in recorder would suffice as backup for most
ENG and HD type run and Gun setups. And when you needed the extra ISO
channels you could tack on the 744T.

---Courtney

---Courtney
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"Courtney Goodin" wrote in message

>
> "John Aldridge" wrote in message
>
>> This is a great idea - but not as cumbersome and power hungry as a PD-6
>>
>> >What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
>>> record 4 iso's and a mix.
>>
>>
>
> Let's not go overboard. How about a 2 Track w/TC CF recorder built into a
> slightly thicker 442 case that allows room for a front mounted CF slot and
> 2 line Alphanumeric LCD for Menu/TC and Status display. and a C-Link
> output to drive a 744T in unison for 4 Track Iso's if you want them. That
> way those who wanted could use their current or a rented 744T in
> conjunction to get the 4 ISOs on one CF card and Hard Drive, and a 2 Track
> Stereo Mix for Telecine or Transcription from the Mixer/Recorder combo..
> Or if you like 2 more ISOs on a second CF card. That would be the most
> flexible package and give you the functionality of the PD-6 (with CF
> instead of DVD-RAM media). in a much smaller and more efficient package.
>
> The 442 with a 2 Track built in recorder would suffice as backup for most
> ENG and HD type run and Gun setups. And when you needed the extra ISO
> channels you could tack on the 744T.

Honestly, I'm tired of "tacking on" things to my setup. I just want a single
does it all unit which marries a high end multichannel recorder with a REAL
field mixer that could be used with or without the recorder without
sacrifice. NO ONE makes such a unit and no one ever has. Not a Nagra, not an
HHB, not a Fostex, not a Stelladat, not a Deva. It's just not been done.
I've been tacking stuff on my entire career and my back can't take much more
of it.
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

Dont forget the transcription on another media
so 2 cf slots

--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland
> What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
> record 4 iso's and a mix.
>
 >> Stay informed about: 4 channel mixer with a flash card 

Charles Tomaras wrote:

> What we need is a 6 track recorder married to a 442 with the ability to
> record 4 iso's and a mix.

Maybe, but what we REALLY need is to encourage Sound Devices to finish
the 744T before starting on any new machines. While I've been
impressed and appreciative of all of the firmware development that
Sound Devices has provided for their recorder, I must admit I was
disappointed to hear they've been working on a 702T when the 744T still
can't mirror or utilize firewire speed properly.

I'm only a rare Zaxcom product user at this point, but watching all the
Zaxcom action from the periphery, I think it would most certainly also
behoove them to adopt a similar line of thinking.

Yes, I know it makes less hype and probably less sales, which is why
they don't do it the way I'm suggesting. But this ADD-inspired product
development just has to stop. And it's not just Zaxcom and Sound
Devices, or even just HDD recorders. It's everywhere from Microsoft to
Apple and down the line.

Don't forget, in the rush to put out more and more different kinds of
product, that the cornerstone of our kits and equipment and raison
d'etre -- Kudelski's Nagra -- was loved and cherished (and used
exclusively for the better part of 40 years) in our capacity because it
was ROCK SOLID. Kick it down a flight of stairs, pour salt water on
it, resolder a few connections and you're good to go. I loved it and I
know that those who came before me did too -- and I also know those who
hired us did as well. I don't remember Nagra ignoring critical parts
of the workflow in their rush to build yet another machine.

This is not meant as a knock on Sound Devices -- we all understand the
nature of business. It's just a plea to ALL manufacturers to finish
what you start as quickly as you can when people in the field are using
your product to carry a lot of very heavy weight.

Regards,

Noah Timan
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