Hitchcock concerned about logic

"sawakatoome" <sawakatoome RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1138895730.719568.111900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> In 'Dial M for Murder', Margot Wendice (Grace Kelly) answers the phone
> in the middle of the night wearing just her nightdress. All fine .. the
> apartment she lives in with her husband is empty (and if he's to come
> in, she's assuming he won't be bringing friends or guests).
>
> However, its pretty well-known that Hitchcock *wanted* Kelly wearing
> the red dressing gown for this scene, I think its mentionned in the
> Truffaut book .. obviously, the blood-red colour of the gown would have
> certainly added something to the atmosphere. The thing is though,
> Hitchcock agreed to Kelly's suggestion, a suggestion which took account
> of logic and said that, logically, the woman wouldn't put the gown on.
>
> As we know, Hitchcock is famous for being very definite about what he
> wanted in a particular scene and how the scene is going to look to the
> viewer. Why then, in a film in which colour is obviously very important
> (e.g. the colour of Margot's clothes becoming more subdued as the film
> goes on), did Hitchcock agree to Kelly's suggestion?

Because he could have simply used the color elsewhere - and maybe had done
(or planned to do so) enough already (only a guess).

My favorite bow to logic occurs in Lifeboat when he told Hermann he wouldn't
be needing any music. Hermann said are you kidding, and Hitch said, well
where would the sound come from, there are no speakers at sea. Hermann
replied that there'd be no cameras either so how could he film it? Hermann
won.


Note: this sounds like a myth to me though - Was Hitch that obtuse?
Obviously, he knew there wouldn't be speakers playing the music in the
shower scene in Psycho either (despite the fact that it came later, after
this supposed conversation). Or did he? This has always struck me as a bit
of a puzzle. How could a genius, and I'm assuming very intelligent man not
realize the fallacy in the "but there are no speakers on the ocean" logic?

On the other hand, I know particularly brilliant people who do not know how
to operate a CD player (or set the time on their VCR, etc.), so it could be
that Hitch just didn't think in this way, but the story seems a little -
well, let's say, maybe embellished.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Hitchcock concerned about logic 

On 2006-02-02 11:04:25 -0800, "Steve Latham" <llatham DeleteThis @verizon.net> said:

> In 'Dial M for Murder', Margot Wendice (Grace Kelly) answers the phone
> in the middle of the night wearing just her nightdress. All fine .. the
> apartment she lives in with her husband is empty (and if he's to come
> in, she's assuming he won't be bringing friends or guests).
>
> However, its pretty well-known that Hitchcock *wanted* Kelly wearing
> the red dressing gown for this scene, I think its mentionned in the
> Truffaut book .. obviously, the blood-red colour of the gown would have
> certainly added something to the atmosphere. The thing is though,
> Hitchcock agreed to Kelly's suggestion, a suggestion which took account
> of logic and said that, logically, the woman wouldn't put the gown on.

One of the things Hitch mentions in Truffaut's book is the
"plausibles." This was his term for audiences insisting that things
make sense. He seemed to be more of a mind that if he needed to do
something to move the film along or set up a particular situation, it
didn't matter to him as much as it did the audience whether it made
complete sense or not. Consequently, he had to weigh his desires
against what he felt would be the audience's reaction, and freqently
the audience would win out ... but not always.
 >> Stay informed about: Hitchcock concerned about logic 

"sawakatoome" <sawakatoome.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1138917551.656802.52000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Steve wrote:
> My favorite bow to logic occurs in Lifeboat when he told Hermann he
> wouldn't
> be needing any music.
>
> sawky replies:
> I've heard of the story you're referring to .. but, of course, it
> wasn't Herrmann. 'Lifeboat' was made in '44 and Hitchcock didn't begin
> his collaboration with him till 'The Trouble With Harry' (1955).

I thought that was early for Hermann, and I didn't bother to check (silly
me).


> I'm not sure if its Hugo Friedhofer or Kenneth Macgowan (composer and
> producer of 'Lifeboat' respectively) with whom Hitchcock had that
> conversation .. but anyway, I think they were right.

Now that you mention it, Friedhofer sounds familiar. I'm going to have to
check out a couple of books I have and see if I can find the text.

(Although, I have
> to say I think the lack of music in a film creates a more 'realistic'
> feeling.

I think it's amazing. Music can add so much, and sometimes make things seem
more real, and do the reverse as well - its absence can add, its presence
can add, and of course, in cases detract.

And anyway, in the end, I don't think there was any music in
> 'Lifeboat' except for over the titles at the beginning and over the
> closing credits at the end.)

Maybe it was Hermann, but it was a different film (maybe just a scene)???
I'm obvioulsy mixing memories - I'll see if I can find it. Or simply if it
was Lifeboat I'm thinking of, Hitch got his way, despite logic (that is, the
logic that the cameras wouldn't be there either).

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Hitchcock concerned about logic 

No, I'm pretty sure it wasn't Herrmann .. and I'm also pretty sure, as
you were, that the conversation had indeed to do with the film
'Lifeboat'.

Didn't Hitchcock once refer to himself as 'a purist'? Maybe, for him
(i.e. one who sees cinema as a, primarily, visual art), the idea of a
camera having to be there (e.g. in the middle of the ocean, in a
shower) is a given .. whereas hearing an orchestra play in such a place
might be up for debate.

(Moving on with this, Hitchcock once said to Truffaut that he would
never place the camera behind a fire (place) or inside an ice box
(fridge freezer). Personally, I'm not so sure he wouldn't have.)
 >> Stay informed about: Hitchcock concerned about logic 

Sorry, that previous post of mine should have included the quote I was
answering ...

Steve wrote:
Maybe it was Hermann, but it was a different film (maybe just a
scene)???
I'm obvioulsy mixing memories - I'll see if I can find it. Or simply if
it
was Lifeboat I'm thinking of, Hitch got his way, despite logic (that
is, the
logic that the cameras wouldn't be there either).
 >> Stay informed about: Hitchcock concerned about logic