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Next: "Gone Baby Gone"
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2006
Posts: 747
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(Msg. 76) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:53 am
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films (more info?)
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Calvin <crice5 RemoveThis @windstream.net> wrote:
>Am I going mad? Is everyone in this newsgroup unfair?
I'm not. I'm nice.
Jim is very nice. Waldo is nice. Dave from that part of Canada that
isn't directly affected by the Cascadia Subduction Zone is nice. I
think there's a number of nice posters. Remember Steve (Crook, is it?)
who heads up fan groups devoted to Michael Powell? He's nice. Remember
Dawn Taylor? I don't even remember whether she was nice.
____
Consider the verts: the in & the per,
The intro & extra, who con or who sub.
For conversation somehow to occur
Could they perhaps band into a club?
-- John Simon, "Of verts" (2007) |
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External
Since: Sep 21, 2003
Posts: 1352
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(Msg. 77) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <1193322883.588317.130650 DeleteThis @o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Calvin <crice5 DeleteThis @windstream.net> wrote:
: On Oct 25, 9:49 am, schu... DeleteThis @mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
:> You know, if you would stop responding, I would "reel in my hostility"
:> immediately. If you would write responses that are not quite so idiotic,
:> you would find that I would "reel in my hostility" just as quickly.
: My responses are carefully thought out, not idiotic at all.
Whatever you say.
: But the more I defend myself, the more you and others pile on against me.
Poor Calvin. You really should read _The Private Memoirs and Confessions
of a Justified Sinner_. Until you do, here's a clue for the clueless:
it's not about you.
: That is wrong, and I won't simply say, "yes, sir, anything you say sir,
: and go away."
No one is asking you to agree with us. I am only pointing out that
despite your inability to see as much, your behavior is somewhere between
foolish and idiotic. You have the right to behave in any way that you
see fit, of course; but I reserve the right to point out to an idiot that
he is being an idiot.
: You and 'No man' are the ones in the wrong.
I will ask you again (among the many questions that you refuse to answer):
how does *your* not getting a joke that I made put *me* in the wrong?
: You should apologize for the both of you,
Says Mr. "I never apologize."
: and then I will go away.
What makes you think that I want you to go away?
-----
Richard Schultz schultr DeleteThis @mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Apparently, you take me for a complete fool."
"Yeah -- more or less."
Bob & Ray, "Garish Summit" |
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External
Since: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 78) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Calvin wrote:
>> > > Here's another: *All* my statements are false.
>
>> >We all have heard such paradoxes.
>
>> In this case it isn't a paradox. It is a lie. Some of his
>> statements are true, some are false.
>
>I'm not so sure. I see your point; but if
>
>*All* my statements are false.
>
>then
>
>*This* statement is false.
>
>is implied. And that is a paradox.
It's no paradox, it's just a contradiction. If *both* assumptions -
the sentence to be true *and* the sentence to be false - would
lead to a contradiction, there would be a paradox. But the
assumption, that the sentence is false, don't necessarily lead
to a contradiction. The conclusion is, that the statement "All my
statements are false" is false. No paradox in sight.
Manfred >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 106
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(Msg. 79) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Manfred Polak wrote:
> It's no paradox, it's just a contradiction. If *both* assumptions -
> the sentence to be true *and* the sentence to be false - would
> lead to a contradiction, there would be a paradox. But the
> assumption, that the sentence is false, don't necessarily lead
> to a contradiction. The conclusion is, that the statement "All my
> statements are false" is false. No paradox in sight.
Whirlygig logic. There is no conflict between contradiction and paradox.
Let us see.
1: a tenet contrary to received opinion
Is it the received opinion that noman's statements are true?
2 a: a statement that is seemingly contradictory or opposed to common
sense and yet is perhaps true
Perhaps the statement itself is not a statement, or is not one of my own.
*b: a self-contradictory statement that at first seems true*
At first, the statement may be true. Upon further review, it cannot be,
because it befouls itself. A paradox.
c: an argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by
valid deduction from acceptable premises
Doesn't apply.
3: one (as a person, situation, or action) having seemingly
contradictory qualities or phases
Another hit.
--
'... my name is Noman; this is what my father and mother and my friends
have always called me.' - Odyssey; Book IX >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2007
Posts: 462
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(Msg. 80) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Oct 25, 2:53 pm, David Oberman <doberman@etc.> wrote:
> Calvin <cri....DeleteThis@windstream.net> wrote:
> >Am I going mad? Is everyone in this newsgroup unfair?
> I'm not. I'm nice.
> Jim is very nice. Waldo is nice. Dave from that part of Canada that
> isn't directly affected by the Cascadia Subduction Zone is nice. I
> think there's a number of nice posters. Remember Steve (Crook, is it?)
> who heads up fan groups devoted to Michael Powell? He's nice. Remember
> Dawn Taylor? I don't even remember whether she was nice.
Thank you. That's encouraging. Thoroughly addled, I'll leave this
thread now and try to invent an approach to dealing with people
that will work better. Maybe I should take Henry Higgins' advice
and stick to two subjects, the weather and everybody's health. >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1564
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(Msg. 81) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Calvin wrote:
[deletions]
> Thank you. That's encouraging. Thoroughly addled, I'll leave this
> thread now and try to invent an approach to dealing with people
> that will work better. Maybe I should take Henry Higgins' advice
> and stick to two subjects, the weather and everybody's health.
>
Or past films?
--
Frank in Seattle
____
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Millennium hand and shrimp." >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 21, 2003
Posts: 1352
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(Msg. 82) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <ffqerj0181n RemoveThis @enews2.newsguy.com>, No Man <woesong RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
: Point of information: Noman was missing during Penelope's vigil for a
: full two decades. But that was in another country and, besides, the
: wench is dead.
I said "more than a decade" because I don't know how long it's been since
you met Polyphemus.
-----
Richard Schultz schultr RemoveThis @mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience" >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 83) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Calvin wrote:
>Saying:
>
>*All* my statements are false.
>
>is saying:
>
>1) My past statements were false.
>2) This statement is false.
>3) My future statements will be false.
That's obvious. But the opposite of "All my statements are
false" is not "All my statements are true", but "At least one
of my statements is true". And this one true statement ain't
necessarily the self-referential statement in question - it
might be any other random statement. Thus the assumption
that "All my statements are false" is simply a false statement
does *not* imply any contradiction.
>Thus the statement, "*All* my statements are false." contains
>a paradox.
No.
Manfred >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 84) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Calvin wrote:
>> It's no paradox, it's just a contradiction. If *both* assumptions -
>> the sentence to be true *and* the sentence to be false - would
>> lead to a contradiction, there would be a paradox. But the
>> assumption, that the sentence is false, don't necessarily lead
>> to a contradiction. The conclusion is, that the statement "All my
>> statements are false" is false. No paradox in sight.
>
>Apparently I didn't make it clear what I was saying,
>so let me try again:
It was completely clear. Nobody was missing the aspect of
self-reference in this statement. It was referenced by Richard
Schultz, when he mentioned Crete between the lines.
>BUT the statement, *All* my statements are false,
>is included in *All*, ie. *This* statement (also) is false.
And that's the reason why the statement "All my statements
are false" is false.
>If all of his statements are false, then the statement
>that he is uttering is false.
You got it!
>And to say that the statement which one is uttering is false, is a
>paradox.
No, it's just a contradiction.
Manfred >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 85) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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No Man wrote:
>Whirlygig logic. There is no conflict between contradiction and paradox.
That depends on the definition of "paradox". Here we are talking
about logic paradoxes which don't regard the "real world outside".
It's pure logic, no ontology. So I think we should use a strong
definition of "paradox".
An example: "This statement is false". Is this a true or a false
statement? Well, if it's true, then it's false. And if it's false, then
it's true. There is no consistent interpretation. You can't escape
the contradiction. It's a *real* paradox.
Another real paradox is Bertrand Russell's barber paradox.
But the statement "All my statements are false" *does* have a
consistent interpretation: It's a false statement. The assumption,
that it's a false statement, does *not* imply that it's a true
statement at the same time, unlike the example above. Thus
it's no real paradox, though it might seem so at the first glance.
Manfred >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2006
Posts: 747
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(Msg. 86) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Manfred Polak <ma.po.DeleteThis@gmx.com> wrote:
>Another real paradox is Bertrand Russell's barber paradox.
Don't forget Richard Mitchell's Polyphemus Fallacy:
www.sourcetext.com/grammarian/newslettersv11/11.2.htm
____
Consider the verts: the in & the per,
The intro & extra, who con or who sub.
For conversation somehow to occur
Could they perhaps band into a club?
-- John Simon, "Of verts" (2007) >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2007
Posts: 462
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(Msg. 87) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 25, 7:14 pm, sta... RemoveThis @xmission.com (Stacia) wrote:
> And now back to your regularly scheduled poo-flinging.
The poo smells sweeter now that you have flung some. >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 21, 2003
Posts: 1352
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(Msg. 88) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <1193337012.651475.153400.TakeThisOut@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Calvin <crice5.TakeThisOut@windstream.net> wrote:
: Am I going mad? Is everyone in this newsgroup unfair?
Uh Oh -- he's on to us. Everyone make sure to hide your secret
decoder rings!
-----
Richard Schultz schultr.TakeThisOut@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and
if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 106
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(Msg. 89) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: OK [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Manfred Polak wrote:
> Calvin wrote:
>>BUT the statement, *All* my statements are false,
>>is included in *All*, ie. *This* statement (also) is false.
>
>
> And that's the reason why the statement "All my statements
> are false" is false.
If it's false, then it's true.
--
'... my name is Noman; this is what my father and mother and my friends
have always called me.' - Odyssey; Book IX >> Stay informed about: OK |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 106
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(Msg. 90) Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:36 pm
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Calvin wrote:
> Am I going mad? Is everyone in this newsgroup unfair?
I don't know. Are *you* being unfair to everyone in this newsgroup,
including yourself?
--
'... my name is Noman; this is what my father and mother and my friends
have always called me.' - Odyssey; Book IX >> Stay informed about: OK |
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