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ThomasDefender

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Since: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 16



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:23 am
Post subject: film? celluloid?
Archived from groups: alt>movies>cinematography (more info?)
Is any film today still made with celluloid?
When they say "polyester base", I assume no celluloid,correct?

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Sswitaj

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Since: Nov 14, 2003
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:18 pm
Post subject: Re: film? celluloid? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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>Is any film today still made with celluloid?
> When they say "polyester base", I assume no celluloid,correct?
>

Long, long ago, film used to be manufactured on a substrate of cellulose
acetate - celluloid.

While a useful, inexpensive substance, it had one dramatic flaw. It burned with
great violence when ignited - chemically, it was very similar to guncotton.

In the 30's manufacturers started moving their amateur films over to polyester
bases - often marketed as "safety film". It was a much more stable material.

Eventually celluloid bases were abandoned entirely, and most film today is
manufactured on (IIRC) polyester acetate.

There are a few specialty films produced on other, more durable bases but they
are rare. For instance, Kodak produces some high-speed films on a base called
"Estar", a mylar-like material that is exceptionally tough, but hard on the
equipment.

Additionally, the manufacturers sill supply some still films on the oldest
negative base of all - glass.

- Steve

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J. Theakston

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Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 225



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: film? celluloid? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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thomasdefender DeleteThis @aol.com (ThomasDefender) wrote in message news:<20031113222325.28568.00000223 DeleteThis @mb-m14.aol.com>...
> Is any film today still made with celluloid?
> When they say "polyester base", I assume no celluloid,correct?

Already said, but to wrap it up:

Celluloid was Cellulose Nitrate. This ignited when decomposed (due to
the gas it emitted, not the physical chemistry of the product), thus
causing many, many problems. Nitrate stopped being used in 1953 in
the states.

Triacetate took over, and has been used ever since. Polyester prints
started showing up in the 70s. They are used for prints only.
Acetate is still around, but less frequently used in the print
department. Polyester became popular because of its strength, but
unlike Acetate, it cannot be cemented back together.

-J. Theakston
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ThomasDefender

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Since: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 16



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: film? celluloid? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Thanks for all your replies.

The only thing I can add, is that polyester was used as a camera stock in the
Fuji single 8 system.
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Robert Morein

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Since: Nov 06, 2003
Posts: 141



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:07 am
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"ThomasDefender" <thomasdefender RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031116010728.27776.00000320@mb-m06.aol.com...
> Thanks for all your replies.
>
> The only thing I can add, is that polyester was used as a camera stock
in the
> Fuji single 8 system.

Interesting. They must have had a claw clutch or release mechanism to avoid
breaking it off in a jam.
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Marc Wielage

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Since: Nov 17, 2003
Posts: 192



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:25 am
Post subject: Re: film? celluloid? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:00:08 -0800, J. Theakston wrote
(in message <d9df4496.0311151400.1cc8be49.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>):

> Polyester prints
> started showing up in the 70s. They are used for prints only.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<


I'm certain that Kodak does make available Estar formulations of some of
their internegative and interpositive stocks. Those are used in cases where
labs need to strike off up to 1000 prints from a single negative. The Estar
negs can't easily be hot-spliced without special equipment.

Estar negatives are an important part of digital intermediates, where
eventually it'll be possible to deliver a half-dozen complete digital
negatives for a wide-release project. That way, every print would
theoretically be sharper and less grainy than those made with typical lab
processes.

--MFW
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ThomasDefender

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Since: Oct 10, 2003
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:59 am
Post subject: Re: film? celluloid? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I guess they had to. Because the single 8 cameras unlike Super 8 could be
backwound without limits.
I think select Super 8 cameras had about only a few sec. limit on its
backwind.
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