Chaplin M2K DVD Thread

"George Shelps" <G-HELPS.RemoveThis@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13742-448B7B3C-476@storefull-3318.bay.webtv.net...
> Doug Sulpy wrote:
>
> >There are people here who can (and
> >probably will) explain it better, but as I
> >understand it the blurring comes from
> >the PAL -> NTSC transfer
> >- which suggests that the powers-that-be
> >were too cheap to transfer the films
> >twice, but simply ported the PAL transfer
> >over to NTSC.
>
> This is just inexcusable. For this reason,
> I did not buy any of the DVD's, being
> content with my VHS copies. How
> much more could it have cost to do it
> right? Is this a modern example of
> Charlie's legendary cheapness being
> carried on by his heirs?

George, you should seek out the Image DVDs.
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"Dave Garrett" <dave.RemoveThis@compassnet.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ef5681fd5131a1a98a0c5@207.14.116.130...
> In article <1150001045.296244.20030.RemoveThis@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> mattbarry10.RemoveThis@hotmail.com says...
>
> > In my opinion, the "bonus features" were a brilliantly deceptive
> > marketing ploy that hooked many Chaplin fans, myself included (for the
> > first box set, anyway). The MODERN TIMES disc, for instance, enticed me
> > with its seemingly endless list of rare bonus materials (it is my
> > favorite film of all time). But when you realize that these features
> > consist of such items as Ford industrial shorts and Liberace singing
> > "Smile", they suddenly don't seem so "special" anymore, and I ended up
> > with a disc that I probably won't watch again (after all, the Image DVD
> > version of MODERN TIMES looks much, much better and includes the entire
> > nonsense song, and contains the entire opening credits without the
> > ridiculous freeze-frame updated copyright info). This really goes for
> > the whole set. The only real exception is THE GOLD RUSH disc, featuring
> > the original 1925 version. Other than this, the set is really a mere
> > shadow of what could have been done with the access to materials they
> > had.
>
> I was able to get the first Warner/MK2 box set for $50 and the second
> for about $45, through a combination of careful shopping and eBay luck.
> I felt the extras alone were worth those prices, and I already had all
> of the OOP Image discs. If I'd paid anything approaching full price for
> the box sets, I'd probably not be quite as forgiving of the botched PAL-
> to-NTSC conversions of the films themselves.
>
> Dave

The only extra I was interested in was the real THE GOLD RUSH. I'd like to
see "The Tramp And The Dictator" too...so I might knuckle under and get THE
GREAT DICTATOR at some point, but only if I can find it really cheap.
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Doug Sulpy wrote:
> In article <1150041833.265952.172220.DeleteThis@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Doug Sulpy wrote:
> > > In article <1149958347.018212.288110.DeleteThis@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > symphonyofhorror.DeleteThis@juno.com wrote:
> > > > > I've read some of the older posts on here regarding the M2K DVD's and I
> > > > > whole heartedly agree with most of them. Why did they release such a
> > > > > horrible collection, full of errors, misprints, terrible bonus features
> > > > > and worse yet, the quality and what I would like to call
> > > > > "over-restoration" of these films??
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't call the discs "horrible", but I know what you mean about
> > > > "over-restoration." Watching the M2K DVD of THE GREAT DICTATOR is
> > > > more like watching videotape than film.
> > >
> > > That's interesting - what do you mean by "over-restoration"?
> >
> > I mean any sense of film grain has been removed. It's like watching
> > a videotape from 1940--had there been any.
>
> That's how I felt watching the DVD vs. laserdisc "Casablanca", or the
> LD vs. DVD of the Astaire/Rogers films - the new editions look clean,
> alright, but they no longer look like film. It's hard to describe... I
> enjoyed the old editions more.
>
> I'd probably feel the same about the M2K Chaplins, if I ever sat down
> and watched them through (I bought them for the extras - yeah, I know.
> Dumb.)

If you already have the Image Chaplins, I wouldn't even bother watching
the M2Ks at all. They suffer from all the same problems you mention
with the above discs (CASABLANCA and the Astaire and Rogers
Collection). Do you have the 2003 2-disc edition of CASABLANCA, or the
older single disc release (from 1999?) DVD? The reason I ask is that
the first, single-disc DVD edition actually looked pretty good, but the
2-disc set sufferred from the "over-restoration" problem.

How does everyone feel about the 1925 reconstruction of THE GOLD RUSH
included in the M2K set? I thought it looked fine, the transfer was at
the correct rate, and it had a good score (thankfully they didn't run
it completely silent!) I think some people have criticized the idea
that this reconstruction is somehow "definitive" when it certainly
isn't, but it's still pretty far ahead of other attempts to reconstruct
the original silent version (the previous "best" edition may have been
the Killiam version, although I didn't care for the tinting). This was
one special feature that was worth having. Also, the TRAMP AND THE
DICTATOR and related home movie footage was worthwhile on THE GREAT
DICTATOR disc if you're interested in that sort of thing (the home
movie footage is fascinating, but to me TRAMP AND THE DICTATOR was an
interesting concept built on a somewhat flimsy premise that in the end
only reflected Brownlow's increasing interest in European history of
the 20th century over cinema. I've watched it once and never again).

Matt
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James Neibaur wrote:
> Doug Sulpy 6/11/06 1:55 PM
>
> > That's how I felt watching the DVD vs. laserdisc "Casablanca", or the
> > LD vs. DVD of the Astaire/Rogers films - the new editions look clean,
> > alright, but they no longer look like film. It's hard to describe... I
> > enjoyed the old editions more.
>
> It's an aesthetic difference that I also noticed. It is hard to describe,
> but I do know what you mean.

The original DVD release of Hitchcock's 1956 MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH had
a good "film" look to it. I haven't seen the latest edition, so I can't
comment yet.

The "look" we're talking about has a certain flatness to it, almost a
blandness. This all begs an interesting question-will there be a
backlash against these super-resolution, digitally restored editions in
favor of copies made directly from film, with less tweaking? After all,
it's really the "classic movie fans" who are buying this stuff. When
DVD is out of fashion and the next format comes along, these DVD
editions will probably seem horribly outdated, moreso that VHS does
now.

Matt
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Doug Sulpy 6/11/06 8:04 AM

> Same thing on the "Yellow Submarine" DVD, for that
> matter - but I'm way OT now... :-)

Well, actually, I remember a Making Of documentary on Yellow Submarine back
when it was first released to theaters and the narrator said that the
cartoon Ringo walked "like a schoolboy Charlie Chaplin."

So you are only semi-OT
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Doug Sulpy wrote:
> In article <1150041833.265952.172220.DeleteThis@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Doug Sulpy wrote:
> > > In article <1149958347.018212.288110.DeleteThis@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > symphonyofhorror.DeleteThis@juno.com wrote:
> > > > > I've read some of the older posts on here regarding the M2K DVD's and I
> > > > > whole heartedly agree with most of them. Why did they release such a
> > > > > horrible collection, full of errors, misprints, terrible bonus features
> > > > > and worse yet, the quality and what I would like to call
> > > > > "over-restoration" of these films??
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't call the discs "horrible", but I know what you mean about
> > > > "over-restoration." Watching the M2K DVD of THE GREAT DICTATOR is
> > > > more like watching videotape than film.
> > >
> > > That's interesting - what do you mean by "over-restoration"?
> >
> > I mean any sense of film grain has been removed. It's like watching
> > a videotape from 1940--had there been any.
>
> That's how I felt watching the DVD vs. laserdisc "Casablanca", or the
> LD vs. DVD of the Astaire/Rogers films - the new editions look clean,
> alright, but they no longer look like film. It's hard to describe... I
> enjoyed the old editions more.
>
Boy, I have both the newer CASABLANCA DVD and the Astsire & Rogers
set, and to me they good great. They shimmer like an old nitrate
print.
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In article <1150041833.265952.172220.RemoveThis@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:

> Doug Sulpy wrote:
> > In article <1149958347.018212.288110.RemoveThis@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > symphonyofhorror.RemoveThis@juno.com wrote:
> > > > I've read some of the older posts on here regarding the M2K DVD's and I
> > > > whole heartedly agree with most of them. Why did they release such a
> > > > horrible collection, full of errors, misprints, terrible bonus features
> > > > and worse yet, the quality and what I would like to call
> > > > "over-restoration" of these films??
> > >
> > > I wouldn't call the discs "horrible", but I know what you mean about
> > > "over-restoration." Watching the M2K DVD of THE GREAT DICTATOR is
> > > more like watching videotape than film.
> >
> > That's interesting - what do you mean by "over-restoration"?
>
> I mean any sense of film grain has been removed. It's like watching
> a videotape from 1940--had there been any.

That's how I felt watching the DVD vs. laserdisc "Casablanca", or the
LD vs. DVD of the Astaire/Rogers films - the new editions look clean,
alright, but they no longer look like film. It's hard to describe... I
enjoyed the old editions more.

I'd probably feel the same about the M2K Chaplins, if I ever sat down
and watched them through (I bought them for the extras - yeah, I know.
Dumb.)
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Doug Sulpy 6/11/06 1:55 PM

> That's how I felt watching the DVD vs. laserdisc "Casablanca", or the
> LD vs. DVD of the Astaire/Rogers films - the new editions look clean,
> alright, but they no longer look like film. It's hard to describe... I
> enjoyed the old editions more.

It's an aesthetic difference that I also noticed. It is hard to describe,
but I do know what you mean.
 >> Stay informed about: Chaplin M2K DVD Thread 

Doug Sulpy wrote:
> In article <1150066477.851491.142050 RemoveThis @c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Boy, I have both the newer CASABLANCA DVD and the Astsire & Rogers
> > set, and to me they good great. They shimmer like an old nitrate
> > print.
>
> I think it's called "edge enhancement"....

No one has done a better job of presenting their classic titles on
DVD than Warner Bros.--from the Busby Berkeley and Val Lewton
collections, to the recent Tennessee Williams set.
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In article <1150066477.851491.142050 RemoveThis @c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

> Boy, I have both the newer CASABLANCA DVD and the Astsire & Rogers
> set, and to me they good great. They shimmer like an old nitrate
> print.

I think it's called "edge enhancement"....
 >> Stay informed about: Chaplin M2K DVD Thread 

James Neibaur wrote:
the restorations from Warner Home Video on the older titles are
> wonderful, indeed
>

Other studios have done excellent work on individual titles--such as
Paramount with the Jerry Lewis movies (including THE NUTTY PROFESSOR)
featuring interviews with...James Neibaur.
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Richard Carnahan 6/11/06 11:36 PM

>
> Doug Sulpy wrote:
>> In article <1150066477.851491.142050.DeleteThis@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> Richard Carnahan <rfcsac627n.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Boy, I have both the newer CASABLANCA DVD and the Astsire & Rogers
>>> set, and to me they good great. They shimmer like an old nitrate
>>> print.
>>
>> I think it's called "edge enhancement"....
>
> No one has done a better job of presenting their classic titles on
> DVD than Warner Bros.--from the Busby Berkeley and Val Lewton
> collections, to the recent Tennessee Williams set.
>

They are digging into the vaults and offering period short subjects as well.
And they actually do the research to include the very shorts that ran with
the feature when originally released.

There is a noticeable aesthetic difference where the image is so sparkling
it looks- -- well --- clearer than film. We are seeing perhaps a sharper
image than what was possible when the movie was first projected in theaters
at the time of release. It is an individual call as to whether this is
good or bad.

But the restorations from Warner Home Video on the older titles are
wonderful, indeed

JN
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Richard Carnahan 6/12/06 10:23 AM

> Other studios have done excellent work on individual titles--such as
> Paramount with the Jerry Lewis movies (including THE NUTTY PROFESSOR)
> featuring interviews with...James Neibaur.

during his embarrasing Fat Elvis period.

JN
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