For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist

jneibaur.DeleteThis@wi.rr.com (James Neibaur)
wrote:

>>confused and narrow-minded mostly

>oh come now, George, christians have
>had the market cornered on narrow
>mindedness since Elvis was shown from
>the waist up.

I don't deny that, but Pearson indulges
in a combination of wiseass remarks
and laundry-list sneers at the Bible...he
appears incapable of any sort of rational
discussion and I find that true of most
atheists---who seem as emotionally fixated on non-belief as the
believers they
attack. That's why he goes bananas
when evolution is questioned....whereas
I can take it or leave it, since its truth or falsity has no bearing on
faith or the existence of a God.
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

On 6/23/06 7:26 PM, in article
4295-449C86AE-437 DeleteThis @storefull-3317.bay.webtv.net, "George Shelps"
<G-HELPS DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote:

>
> jneibaur DeleteThis @wi.rr.com (James Neibaur)
> wrote:
>
>>> confused and narrow-minded mostly
>
>> oh come now, George, christians have
>> had the market cornered on narrow
>> mindedness since Elvis was shown from
>> the waist up.
>
> I don't deny that, but Pearson indulges
> in a combination of wiseass remarks
> and laundry-list sneers at the Bible...he
> appears incapable of any sort of rational
> discussion and I find that true of most
> atheists---who seem as emotionally fixated on non-belief as the
> believers they
> attack. That's why he goes bananas
> when evolution is questioned....whereas
> I can take it or leave it, since its truth or falsity has no bearing on
> faith or the existence of a God.

Why George!

I only talk about religion the way you talk about politics.

:-)

Again, I ask the question... Do you have ANY logical proof your god
exists... Or is it just this "wonderous feeling" you get sometimes?
Do you have a RATIONAL proof?
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

David Pearson wrote:

>I only talk about religion the way you talk
>about politics.

I would prefer not to talk about politics,
but the lefties keep going off-topic
on the subject, and I won't let them
get away with it.

>Again, I ask the question... Do you have
>ANY logical proof your god exists... Or is
>it just this "wonderous feeling" you get
>sometimes? Do you have a RATIONAL
>proof?

Do you have a logical proof that there
is no God, or is just an empty feeling
within you?

The kind of "rational proof" you seek
would remove free will from faith.

I do believe there is evidence of
"intelligent design" though, especially
in the arts.
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

On 6/23/06 9:42 PM, in article
4296-449CA698-99 RemoveThis @storefull-3317.bay.webtv.net, "George Shelps"
<G-HELPS RemoveThis @webtv.net> wrote:

> David Pearson wrote:
>
>> I only talk about religion the way you talk
>> about politics.
>
> I would prefer not to talk about politics,
> but the lefties keep going off-topic
> on the subject, and I won't let them
> get away with it.

I would prefer not to talk about religion,
but the theists keep going off-topic
on the subject, and I won't let them
get away with it.

:-)

>> Again, I ask the question... Do you have
>> ANY logical proof your god exists... Or is
>> it just this "wonderous feeling" you get
>> sometimes? Do you have a RATIONAL
>> proof?
>
> Do you have a logical proof that there
> is no God, or is just an empty feeling
> within you?

One does not need to prove something doesn't exist.

However, there does exist several logical proofs against the existence of
the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god. The most famous of these is known as the
"Problem of Evil:"

1) The Judeo/Christian/Islamic god is supposed to be all knowing, all
powerful, and a force of moral good.

2) The world contains bad events.

A) If this god is all powerful, and a force of total moral good, then he can
not be all knowing.

B) If this god is all knowing, and a force of total moral good, then he can
not be all powerful.

C) If this god is all powerful, and all knowing, then he can not be a force
of total moral good.

Therefore, the Judeo/Christian/Islamic god cannot exist.


> The kind of "rational proof" you seek
> would remove free will from faith.

As you know, faith is not a rational thing.
If you "knew" one way or the other, you would not need faith.

> I do believe there is evidence of
> "intelligent design" though, especially
> in the arts.

I really don't get that one at all. Yes, art does indeed tend to be
intelligently designed -- although with some art, that is VERY debatable!

So why is that relevant?
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

David Pearson wrote:

>Therefore, the Judeo/Christian/Islamic
>god cannot exist.

The existence of evil is the resulf
of God permitting free will and freedom
of choice, it is does not conflict with
God's powers,

>>The kind of "rational proof" you seek
>>would remove free will from faith.

>As you know, faith is not a rational thing.
>If you "knew" one way or the other, you
>would not need faith.

Faith must be freely chosen, and
proof would remove the role of choice
(see above re evil)

>>I do believe there is evidence of
>>"intelligent design" though, especially
>>in the arts.

>I really don't get that one at all. Yes, art
>does indeed tend to be intelligently
>designed -- although with some art, that
>is VERY debatable!

>So why is that relevant?

Because the existence of an immaterial
intelligent design is the necessary
precondition to the existence of a God.
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

David Pearson wrote:

>>How else do you explain monumental
>>evils like the Holocaust? This indicates
>>a superhuman form of evil to me.

>There is good, and there is evil, with
>good men and bad. But only religion can
>drive good men to do evil things.

Huh?
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

On 6/23/06 11:31 PM, in article
15203-449CC009-422 DeleteThis @storefull-3312.bay.webtv.net, "George Shelps"
<G-HELPS DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote:

> David Pearson wrote:
>
>> Therefore, the Judeo/Christian/Islamic
>> god cannot exist.
>
> The existence of evil is the resulf
> of God permitting free will and freedom
> of choice, it is does not conflict with
> God's powers,

That causes another paradox.
Free will is impossible if a god is all knowing -- since the choices have
already been predermined.
Even John Calvin knew that one!
Or, taken the other way, if one has free will, then god can not be all
knowing.
:-)

>>> The kind of "rational proof" you seek
>>> would remove free will from faith.
>
>> As you know, faith is not a rational thing.
>> If you "knew" one way or the other, you
>> would not need faith.
>
> Faith must be freely chosen, and
> proof would remove the role of choice
> (see above re evil)

You'd better look instead.

>>> I do believe there is evidence of
>>> "intelligent design" though, especially
>>> in the arts.
>
>> I really don't get that one at all. Yes, art
>> does indeed tend to be intelligently
>> designed -- although with some art, that
>> is VERY debatable!
>
>> So why is that relevant?
>
> Because the existence of an immaterial
> intelligent design is the necessary
> precondition to the existence of a God.

To me, that's a moot point.
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

On 6/23/06 11:32 PM, in article
15204-449CC076-86.TakeThisOut@storefull-3312.bay.webtv.net, "George Shelps"
<G-HELPS.TakeThisOut@webtv.net> wrote:

> David Pearson wrote:
>
>>> How else do you explain monumental
>>> evils like the Holocaust? This indicates
>>> a superhuman form of evil to me.
>
>> There is good, and there is evil, with
>> good men and bad. But only religion can
>> drive good men to do evil things.
>
> Huh?
>

:-|
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

dbpearson.RemoveThis@charter.net (David B. Pearson) wrote:

>>The existence of evil is the resulf
>>of God permitting free will and freedom
>>of choice, it is does not conflict with
>>God's powers,

>That causes another paradox.

>Free will is impossible if a god is all
>knowing -- since the choices have
>already been predermined.

>Even John Calvin knew that one!

Calvin's predestination is an imposition
of a human timeline on God's eternity
and therefore false.



>Or, taken the other way, if one has free
>will, then god can not be all knowing.
:-)

You're doing the same thing that Calvin
did. God is outside the space-time
continuum.

It is possible to be free within
the space-time continuum and
determined from God's perspective
outside it. Calvin confused the two.

God constantly "readjusts" the universe.
He is not a static being.

>>Because the existence of an immaterial
>>intelligent design is the necessary
>>precondition to the existence of a God.

>To me, that's a moot point.

An intelligent design does not
"prove" that the designer is God
but it does indicate that there is
a real of meaning beyond the material.

Art is partly an immaterial phenomenon
and therefore points to a non-material
realm.

Are you going to argue that art is
just the product of a material
"stimulus-response' pattern?
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist 

On 6/24/06 1:20 AM, in article
28709-449CD99B-440.RemoveThis@storefull-3315.bay.webtv.net, "George Shelps"
<G-HELPS.RemoveThis@webtv.net> wrote:

>
> dbpearson.RemoveThis@charter.net (David B. Pearson) wrote:
>
>>> The existence of evil is the resulf
>>> of God permitting free will and freedom
>>> of choice, it is does not conflict with
>>> God's powers,
>
>> That causes another paradox.
>
>> Free will is impossible if a god is all
>> knowing -- since the choices have
>> already been predermined.
>
>> Even John Calvin knew that one!
>
> Calvin's predestination is an imposition
> of a human timeline on God's eternity
> and therefore false.

Congratulations on your decision to define your mythological friend that you
regard to be on a high standard that you can decide that a leader of your
religion's major branches is wrong! Truly stunning.


>> Or, taken the other way, if one has free
>> will, then god can not be all knowing.
> :-)
>
> You're doing the same thing that Calvin
> did. God is outside the space-time
> continuum.

I see. Does he ride around in a Time And Relative Dimensions In Space
machine shaped like a blue police box common in 1960s London?

> It is possible to be free within
> the space-time continuum and
> determined from God's perspective
> outside it. Calvin confused the two.

And in what part of the Bible is this discussion of space-time continuum
contained? Or are you making this up yourself? This is certainly an
interesting alternative to all that silly science.

> God constantly "readjusts" the universe.
> He is not a static being.

Yes, those darned Daleks, Cybermen and The Master do keep the Doctor busy...
Darn! Roger Delgado did look like "Satan," didn't he?

>>> Because the existence of an immaterial
>>> intelligent design is the necessary
>>> precondition to the existence of a God.
>
>> To me, that's a moot point.
>
> An intelligent design does not
> "prove" that the designer is God
> but it does indicate that there is
> a real of meaning beyond the material.

LOL. I've let to hear any evidence of intelligent design. Are you suggesting
this space-time continuum thing, so you can defy reality, which can be
defined as the existance of time and space?

> Art is partly an immaterial phenomenon
> and therefore points to a non-material
> realm.

Huh?

> Are you going to argue that art is
> just the product of a material
> "stimulus-response' pattern?

No, but your point is irrelevant, as you are yet to connect an artist's
imagination to a creature that created everything? As your bible says man is
created in gods image, then this god must be some sort of humanoid... Male
it seems. Or are you shucking this idea too?
 >> Stay informed about: For David Pearson, amc villlage atheist