Essanay

Annette Lloyd wrote:
> Shush wrote:
> > > Or were a proportion of Roach's "Phunphilms" shot at Boyle Heights, as
> > > well as the Bradbury Mansion?
> >
> >
> > I don't believe Roach ever operated out of Boyle Heights, but he was
> > definitely working out of the Bradbury Mansion. A HISTORY OF THE HAL
> > ROACH STUDIOS, by Richard Ward, says Roach was working at the Bradbury
> > from 1917, but he was certainly there earlier than that. It also says
> > Roach was working out of a facility on Allessandro Street in Edendale
> > in 1915, which was news to me. Paging Annette Lloyd!!
>
> I got the answer for you ... and, it would be a pleasure for me to
> quote page 301 out of my Harold Lloyd Encyclopedia, in the entry on the
> Rolin Film Company:
>
> "As of March 24, 1915, the Rolin Film Company was headquartered at the
> Bradbury Mansion, 406 Court Street, in Los Angeles; the Mansion was
> used as a location long before Rolin established offices there; this
> would continue to be a prime site of interior location shooting until
> January 1920. However, on July 15, 1915, Rolin's studio moved to 1745
> Allesandro Street, in the Edendale section of Los Angeles (the
> telephone number was Wilshire 1912; property rented from F.E. Norton).
> In September 1915, Rolin moved its offices to 907 Brockman Building,
> Los Angeles."
>
> I'm glad I can offer my help.

Thanks for the info, Annette. A quick google earth search confirmed
what I thought. The Allesandro address is within the same block
occupied by the Keystone Studio. Actually, the address is across the
street (now Glendale Blvd) from the Studio itself, but that's where the
Keystone office buildings (and some set storage) were located. (Does
anyone know if the Keystone business manager was named F.E. Norton?)

For those not familiar with the area, the Boyle Heights Majestic Studio
was a couple of miles east of the downtown LA Bradbury Mansion
location, and the Keystone studio location is about 5 miles northwest
of the Bradbury location.
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

David Totheroh wrote:

> Thanks for the info, Annette. A quick google earth search confirmed
> what I thought. The Allesandro address is within the same block
> occupied by the Keystone Studio. Actually, the address is across the
> street (now Glendale Blvd) from the Studio itself, but that's where the
> Keystone office buildings (and some set storage) were located.

David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.


> (Does
> anyone know if the Keystone business manager was named F.E. Norton?)

No, Keystone's business manager was George Stout at that point.



--Shush--
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

Annette Lloyd wrote:

> "As of March 24, 1915, the Rolin Film Company was headquartered at the
> Bradbury Mansion, 406 Court Street, in Los Angeles; the Mansion was
> used as a location long before Rolin established offices there; this
> would continue to be a prime site of interior location shooting until
> January 1920. However, on July 15, 1915, Rolin's studio moved to 1745
> Allesandro Street, in the Edendale section of Los Angeles (the
> telephone number was Wilshire 1912; property rented from F.E. Norton).
> In September 1915, Rolin moved its offices to 907 Brockman Building,
> Los Angeles."


Thanks, Annette! It's just so surprising to me that the Rolins were
shot in the same area as the Keystones, because the exterior locations
used in the Keystones are so familiar to me, and the ones in the Rolins
just don't look like the same neighborhood.

It's also interesting that as soon as Chaplin began working at the
Bradbury, he tapped Snub Pollard for a supporting role or two. I love
Snub Pollard, but I wonder why Chaplin didn't use Harold Lloyd instead,
since Harold was there as well. Maybe Harold was too busy working on
the Rolin films, or maybe Snub simply had the right look for what
Chaplin had in mind. Or maybe Lloyd didn't impress him as being comical
enough?



--Shush--
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

Shush wrote:
> David Totheroh wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the info, Annette. A quick google earth search confirmed
> > what I thought. The Allesandro address is within the same block
> > occupied by the Keystone Studio. Actually, the address is across the
> > street (now Glendale Blvd) from the Studio itself, but that's where the
> > Keystone office buildings (and some set storage) were located.
>
> David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.

1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
was office space and set storage.

>
>
> > (Does
> > anyone know if the Keystone business manager was named F.E. Norton?)
>
> No, Keystone's business manager was George Stout at that point.

Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

David Totheroh wrote:

> Shush wrote:
> > David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> > Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> > adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> > the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.
>
> 1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
> Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
> Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
> was office space and set storage.

I believe they set up stages there as well. We could really use
Brent Walker's expertise here. If Sennett was also using the lot across
the street from Keystone, then where was the studio that Roach was
using?



> Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
> purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?

The Keystone lot had been the Bison lot, and it was owned by the New
York Motion Picture Company, rather than leased. The NYMPC was
Keystone's parent company, and I think they owned the property from
around 1911 until NYMPC was folded into Triangle in 1915, and then when
Sennett broke away from Triangle in 1917 he managed to get title to the
property as well as the contracts of the people on his staff.



--Shush--
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

Shush wrote:
> David Totheroh wrote:
>
> > Shush wrote:
> > > David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> > > Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> > > adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> > > the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.
> >
> > 1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
> > Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
> > Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
> > was office space and set storage.
>
> I believe they set up stages there as well. We could really use
> Brent Walker's expertise here. If Sennett was also using the lot across
> the street from Keystone, then where was the studio that Roach was
> using?
>
>
>
> > Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
> > purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?
>
> The Keystone lot had been the Bison lot, and it was owned by the New
> York Motion Picture Company, rather than leased. The NYMPC was
> Keystone's parent company, and I think they owned the property from
> around 1911 until NYMPC was folded into Triangle in 1915, and then when
> Sennett broke away from Triangle in 1917 he managed to get title to the
> property as well as the contracts of the people on his staff.
>
>
>
> --Shush--



No, 1745 Allesandro St. was a different studio from the Keystone
Studio, or the Keystone annex lot across the street. There were several
studios along Allesandro St. in the early Teens, when Edendale was a
hub of movie making. 1745 Allesandro St. was the Norbig Film Company
studio, which was also rented by a number of other independent film
companies, and was just up the next block from Keystone on the "annex"
side.

The other big studio along Allesandro was the Selig studio, which was
1845 Allesandro St. This was where director Francis Boggs was famously
murdered by a deranged gardener in 1911. It became the Fox studios
after Selig moved to Lincoln Park (where the Selig Zoo was), and was
later used by a number of independents as well. To confuse things,
Sennett later leased or bought the Selig/Fox studio in the late teens
and rented it to tenants (among them, Roscoe Arbuckle). What's also
confusing if you see photos of these three wholly different studios is
that they all were constructed with some sort of California Mission
motifs in their front gates or buildings, but all are slightly
different (Selig was by far the most pronounced).

Jerry Schneider's Movie Making Locations website
(http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/homestud.htm) has a good rundown on the
different studios. Interestingly, he lists a lot at 1751 Allesandro St.
whose tenant was "Lone Star." This would seem to maybe be a different
Lone Star from Chaplin, but the address sounds like it could be a
different annex of the Norbig lot.

Here's a photo from his site of the Norbig lot when it was Reaguer
Productions:

http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/norbig.htm

Brent Walker
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

hauber108.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Shush wrote:
> > David Totheroh wrote:
> >
> > > Shush wrote:
> > > > David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> > > > Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> > > > adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> > > > the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.
> > >
> > > 1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
> > > Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
> > > Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
> > > was office space and set storage.
> >
> > I believe they set up stages there as well. We could really use
> > Brent Walker's expertise here. If Sennett was also using the lot across
> > the street from Keystone, then where was the studio that Roach was
> > using?
> >
> >
> >
> > > Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
> > > purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?
> >
> > The Keystone lot had been the Bison lot, and it was owned by the New
> > York Motion Picture Company, rather than leased. The NYMPC was
> > Keystone's parent company, and I think they owned the property from
> > around 1911 until NYMPC was folded into Triangle in 1915, and then when
> > Sennett broke away from Triangle in 1917 he managed to get title to the
> > property as well as the contracts of the people on his staff.
> >
> >
> >
> > --Shush--
>
>
>
> No, 1745 Allesandro St. was a different studio from the Keystone
> Studio, or the Keystone annex lot across the street. There were several
> studios along Allesandro St. in the early Teens, when Edendale was a
> hub of movie making. 1745 Allesandro St. was the Norbig Film Company
> studio, which was also rented by a number of other independent film
> companies, and was just up the next block from Keystone on the "annex"
> side.
>
> The other big studio along Allesandro was the Selig studio, which was
> 1845 Allesandro St. This was where director Francis Boggs was famously
> murdered by a deranged gardener in 1911. It became the Fox studios
> after Selig moved to Lincoln Park (where the Selig Zoo was), and was
> later used by a number of independents as well. To confuse things,
> Sennett later leased or bought the Selig/Fox studio in the late teens
> and rented it to tenants (among them, Roscoe Arbuckle). What's also
> confusing if you see photos of these three wholly different studios is
> that they all were constructed with some sort of California Mission
> motifs in their front gates or buildings, but all are slightly
> different (Selig was by far the most pronounced).
>
> Jerry Schneider's Movie Making Locations website
> (http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/homestud.htm) has a good rundown on the
> different studios. Interestingly, he lists a lot at 1751 Allesandro St.
> whose tenant was "Lone Star." This would seem to maybe be a different
> Lone Star from Chaplin, but the address sounds like it could be a
> different annex of the Norbig lot.
>
> Here's a photo from his site of the Norbig lot when it was Reaguer
> Productions:
>
> http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/norbig.htm

Brent, Do you know what the address was for the Keystone annex on the
west side of Allesandro? Effie on the south is the 1699-1700 divide,
and Aaron is the 1799-1800 divide. It's too bad the photo on Jerry
Schneider's site isn't a little wider. There's a building still
standing, now a neighborhood corner latino deli/grocery at the
southwest corner of Allesandro and Aaron (the northern border of
Keystone), that dates back to Keystone times, which some (myself
included) have speculated may have been the sandwich shop Chaplin
refers to in My Autobiography when recounting his first day arriving at
the studio.

Actually, I just went back and looked at 2 photos on Schneider's site
side by side. There's a very curious similarity between the "Reaguer
Productions" studio entrance that Schneider identifies as being either
the Bronx or Norbig Studio at 1745 Alessandro, and the entrance next to
the Keystone Film Co. sign listed under Broncho Motion Picture Co. at
1712 Alessandro. (btw, he gives the address of Bison Co. as 1719
Alessandro.) The photos are not identical, but the similarity is enough
to make me question whether or not they don't represent a remodeling of
the same site over time. What were the dates the Reaguer Production
company was in operation? Or, are we sure this wasn't just set dressing
for a Keystone, or other production company, film ABOUT a fictitious
film studio?

Also on Schneider's website is an article first published on March 10,
1917 in Moving Picture World by G. P. von Harleman titled "A Review of
the Wonderful Development of the Film Producing Industry on the Pacific
Coast--Recent News of Some of the Big Plants." The information about
the Edendale studios is so incestuous and contradictory(?) that it's
hard for me to figure it all out. Here are a few selected quotes:

"The Selig company has now two studios in Los Angeles. One is located
in Edendale, and at the present time leased by the Keystone."

"The next company to reach the Pacific Coast was the New York Motion
Picture Corporation. Kessel & Baumann, in the fall of 1909, dispatched
a company of seventeen to Los Angeles, to cntinue the work of filming
the one-reelers, which, incidentally, were known by the brand name of
"Bison." The company established itself in the suburb of Edendale, on a
tract of land graced only by a four-room bungalow and a barn. This same
tract, since then considerably extended, is now the site of the
Keystone producing plant."

There's a long pretty apocryphal sounding story of the New York origins
of Keystone under the sub-head "Keystone Nearly Five Years on Coast"
that then goes on to report the following:

"In September, 1912, Mack Sennett and his players came to Los Angeles
and took possession of the studio that had been the original site of
the Bison company."

"Today [Mar. 1917] the open air stages of the Keystone Film Company
cover five acres."

And then the article goes on to include this info:

"The Fox Company was one of the latest to establish a studio in
Southern California. In December, 1915, a party of Fox players left New
York to explore the wild and woolly West. Within a few days after their
arrival in Los Angeles they had completed arrangements for taking over
the Selig studio in Edendale."

"About July, 1916, the Fox Company began the making of comedies.
Charles Parrott directed the first organization. Five other comedy
companies were quickly added to the list,[...] This continued increase
had made the Fox organization outgrow the three-quarters of an acre
which it occupied in Edendale."

I learned a long time ago to take these kinds of p.r. pieces with large
grains of salt, but it sure leaves me with lots of questions about the
chronology and occupancy of the Edendale property on Allesandro between
Effie and Aaron (or Branden St., if that 1845 address that Schneider
gives for Selig isn't actually a typo) and the degree of geographical
and facilities separation of the various companies that operated there.
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

hauber108 RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> Shush wrote:
> > David Totheroh wrote:
> >
> > > Shush wrote:
> > > > David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> > > > Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> > > > adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> > > > the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.
> > >
> > > 1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
> > > Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
> > > Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
> > > was office space and set storage.
> >
> > I believe they set up stages there as well. We could really use
> > Brent Walker's expertise here. If Sennett was also using the lot across
> > the street from Keystone, then where was the studio that Roach was
> > using?
> >
> >
> >
> > > Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
> > > purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?
> >
> > The Keystone lot had been the Bison lot, and it was owned by the New
> > York Motion Picture Company, rather than leased. The NYMPC was
> > Keystone's parent company, and I think they owned the property from
> > around 1911 until NYMPC was folded into Triangle in 1915, and then when
> > Sennett broke away from Triangle in 1917 he managed to get title to the
> > property as well as the contracts of the people on his staff.
> >
> >
> >
> > --Shush--
>
>
>
> No, 1745 Allesandro St. was a different studio from the Keystone
> Studio, or the Keystone annex lot across the street. There were several
> studios along Allesandro St. in the early Teens, when Edendale was a
> hub of movie making. 1745 Allesandro St. was the Norbig Film Company
> studio, which was also rented by a number of other independent film
> companies, and was just up the next block from Keystone on the "annex"
> side.
>
> The other big studio along Allesandro was the Selig studio, which was
> 1845 Allesandro St. This was where director Francis Boggs was famously
> murdered by a deranged gardener in 1911. It became the Fox studios
> after Selig moved to Lincoln Park (where the Selig Zoo was), and was
> later used by a number of independents as well. To confuse things,
> Sennett later leased or bought the Selig/Fox studio in the late teens
> and rented it to tenants (among them, Roscoe Arbuckle). What's also
> confusing if you see photos of these three wholly different studios is
> that they all were constructed with some sort of California Mission
> motifs in their front gates or buildings, but all are slightly
> different (Selig was by far the most pronounced).
>
> Jerry Schneider's Movie Making Locations website
> (http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/homestud.htm) has a good rundown on the
> different studios. Interestingly, he lists a lot at 1751 Allesandro St.
> whose tenant was "Lone Star." This would seem to maybe be a different
> Lone Star from Chaplin, but the address sounds like it could be a
> different annex of the Norbig lot.
>
> Here's a photo from his site of the Norbig lot when it was Reaguer
> Productions:
>
> http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/norbig.htm

Brent, Do you know what the address was for the Keystone annex on the
west side of Allesandro? Effie on the south is the 1699-1700 divide,
and Aaron is the 1799-1800 divide. It's too bad the photo on Jerry
Schneider's site isn't a little wider. There's a building still
standing, now a neighborhood corner latino deli/grocery at the
southwest corner of Allesandro and Aaron (the northern border of
Keystone), that dates back to Keystone times, which some (myself
included) have speculated may have been the sandwich shop Chaplin
refers to in My Autobiography when recounting his first day arriving at
the studio.

Actually, I just went back and looked at 2 photos on Schneider's site
side by side. There's a very curious similarity between the "Reaguer
Productions" studio entrance that Schneider identifies as being either
the Bronx or Norbig Studio at 1745 Alessandro, and the entrance next to
the Keystone Film Co. sign listed under Broncho Motion Picture Co. at
1712 Alessandro. (btw, he gives the address of Bison Co. as 1719
Alessandro.) The photos are not identical, but the similarity is enough
to make me question whether or not they don't represent a remodeling of
the same site over time. What were the dates the Reaguer Production
company was in operation? Or, are we sure this wasn't just set dressing
for a Keystone, or other production company, film ABOUT a fictitious
film studio?

Also on Schneider's website is an article first published on March 10,
1917 in Moving Picture World by G. P. von Harleman titled "A Review of
the Wonderful Development of the Film Producing Industry on the Pacific
Coast--Recent News of Some of the Big Plants." The information about
the Edendale studios is so incestuous and contradictory(?) that it's
hard for me to figure it all out. Here are a few selected quotes:

"The Selig company has now two studios in Los Angeles. One is located
in Edendale, and at the present time leased by the Keystone."

"The next company to reach the Pacific Coast was the New York Motion
Picture Corporation. Kessel & Baumann, in the fall of 1909, dispatched
a company of seventeen to Los Angeles, to cntinue the work of filming
the one-reelers, which, incidentally, were known by the brand name of
"Bison." The company established itself in the suburb of Edendale, on a
tract of land graced only by a four-room bungalow and a barn. This same
tract, since then considerably extended, is now the site of the
Keystone producing plant."

There's a long pretty apocryphal sounding story of the New York origins
of Keystone under the sub-head "Keystone Nearly Five Years on Coast"
that then goes on to report the following:

"In September, 1912, Mack Sennett and his players came to Los Angeles
and took possession of the studio that had been the original site of
the Bison company."

"Today [Mar. 1917] the open air stages of the Keystone Film Company
cover five acres."

And then the article goes on to include this info:

"The Fox Company was one of the latest to establish a studio in
Southern California. In December, 1915, a party of Fox players left New
York to explore the wild and woolly West. Within a few days after their
arrival in Los Angeles they had completed arrangements for taking over
the Selig studio in Edendale."

"About July, 1916, the Fox Company began the making of comedies.
Charles Parrott directed the first organization. Five other comedy
companies were quickly added to the list,[...] This continued increase
had made the Fox organization outgrow the three-quarters of an acre
which it occupied in Edendale."

I learned a long time ago to take these kinds of p.r. pieces with large
grains of salt, but it sure leaves me with lots of questions about the
chronology and occupancy of the Edendale property on Allesandro between
Effie and Aaron (or Branden St., if that 1845 address that Schneider
gives for Selig isn't actually a typo) and the degree of geographical
and facilities separation of the various companies that operated there.
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

David, though it looks like it could have been remodeled, it's not --
its a completely different studio. It just happens to have a similiar
setup to the front of Keystone (the relationship of the building with
the gate on the right, in a vaguely Spanish style), but if you look at
the other elements behind it (houses, studio, angle of the hill in the
BG--itis much steeper here) it's quite different from Keystone. I'm not
sure when Reaguer was operating but I know Norbig was a going concern
circa 1915-16 in Edendale (there are a lot of references to it in the
trades).

I've had time to go back and copies I made of the area from the 1919
Sanborn fire maps, and It's all there in black and white. The Keystone
lot across the street occupied 1701-1725 Allesandro. Next to that was a
domicile at 1727, and the corner business at Aaron was 1729-1731. This
is the building you're talking about that's still there, and as you
suggested it could very well be the sandwich shop Chaplin visited.

On the other side of Aaron was another business at 1739. Then at
1745-1751 was the studio we're talking about. In 1919, at the time of
the Sanborn map, it was called the Bronx Studio Motion Picture Film
Mfg. The 1745 building, seen at the left in the Reaguer photo, was the
office, lab, projection and cutting rooms building. The gate was
actually at 1751 Allesandro (this is the address referenced by
Schneider as "Lone Star"). The map shows a wood frame open stage behind
that. The house seen at the right with the gabled roof was at 1759
Allesandro. On the end of that block in 1919 were apparently open lots
at 1765 and 1769.

The Selig/Fox studio (known as the Garson studio in 1919) at 1845
Allesandro actually took up the whole block from 1845 to 1869, between
Clifford and Duane.

Edendale really was studio row in the Teens, competing with Hollywood
in those early days. However, Sennett was the only operation left there
by the early Twenties.

Brent Walker



David Totheroh wrote:
> hauber108.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Shush wrote:
> > > David Totheroh wrote:
> > >
> > > > Shush wrote:
> > > > > David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> > > > > Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> > > > > adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> > > > > the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.
> > > >
> > > > 1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
> > > > Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
> > > > Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
> > > > was office space and set storage.
> > >
> > > I believe they set up stages there as well. We could really use
> > > Brent Walker's expertise here. If Sennett was also using the lot across
> > > the street from Keystone, then where was the studio that Roach was
> > > using?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
> > > > purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?
> > >
> > > The Keystone lot had been the Bison lot, and it was owned by the New
> > > York Motion Picture Company, rather than leased. The NYMPC was
> > > Keystone's parent company, and I think they owned the property from
> > > around 1911 until NYMPC was folded into Triangle in 1915, and then when
> > > Sennett broke away from Triangle in 1917 he managed to get title to the
> > > property as well as the contracts of the people on his staff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --Shush--
> >
> >
> >
> > No, 1745 Allesandro St. was a different studio from the Keystone
> > Studio, or the Keystone annex lot across the street. There were several
> > studios along Allesandro St. in the early Teens, when Edendale was a
> > hub of movie making. 1745 Allesandro St. was the Norbig Film Company
> > studio, which was also rented by a number of other independent film
> > companies, and was just up the next block from Keystone on the "annex"
> > side.
> >
> > The other big studio along Allesandro was the Selig studio, which was
> > 1845 Allesandro St. This was where director Francis Boggs was famously
> > murdered by a deranged gardener in 1911. It became the Fox studios
> > after Selig moved to Lincoln Park (where the Selig Zoo was), and was
> > later used by a number of independents as well. To confuse things,
> > Sennett later leased or bought the Selig/Fox studio in the late teens
> > and rented it to tenants (among them, Roscoe Arbuckle). What's also
> > confusing if you see photos of these three wholly different studios is
> > that they all were constructed with some sort of California Mission
> > motifs in their front gates or buildings, but all are slightly
> > different (Selig was by far the most pronounced).
> >
> > Jerry Schneider's Movie Making Locations website
> > (http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/homestud.htm) has a good rundown on the
> > different studios. Interestingly, he lists a lot at 1751 Allesandro St.
> > whose tenant was "Lone Star." This would seem to maybe be a different
> > Lone Star from Chaplin, but the address sounds like it could be a
> > different annex of the Norbig lot.
> >
> > Here's a photo from his site of the Norbig lot when it was Reaguer
> > Productions:
> >
> > http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/norbig.htm
>
> Brent, Do you know what the address was for the Keystone annex on the
> west side of Allesandro? Effie on the south is the 1699-1700 divide,
> and Aaron is the 1799-1800 divide. It's too bad the photo on Jerry
> Schneider's site isn't a little wider. There's a building still
> standing, now a neighborhood corner latino deli/grocery at the
> southwest corner of Allesandro and Aaron (the northern border of
> Keystone), that dates back to Keystone times, which some (myself
> included) have speculated may have been the sandwich shop Chaplin
> refers to in My Autobiography when recounting his first day arriving at
> the studio.
>
> Actually, I just went back and looked at 2 photos on Schneider's site
> side by side. There's a very curious similarity between the "Reaguer
> Productions" studio entrance that Schneider identifies as being either
> the Bronx or Norbig Studio at 1745 Alessandro, and the entrance next to
> the Keystone Film Co. sign listed under Broncho Motion Picture Co. at
> 1712 Alessandro. (btw, he gives the address of Bison Co. as 1719
> Alessandro.) The photos are not identical, but the similarity is enough
> to make me question whether or not they don't represent a remodeling of
> the same site over time. What were the dates the Reaguer Production
> company was in operation? Or, are we sure this wasn't just set dressing
> for a Keystone, or other production company, film ABOUT a fictitious
> film studio?
>
> Also on Schneider's website is an article first published on March 10,
> 1917 in Moving Picture World by G. P. von Harleman titled "A Review of
> the Wonderful Development of the Film Producing Industry on the Pacific
> Coast--Recent News of Some of the Big Plants." The information about
> the Edendale studios is so incestuous and contradictory(?) that it's
> hard for me to figure it all out. Here are a few selected quotes:
>
> "The Selig company has now two studios in Los Angeles. One is located
> in Edendale, and at the present time leased by the Keystone."
>
> "The next company to reach the Pacific Coast was the New York Motion
> Picture Corporation. Kessel & Baumann, in the fall of 1909, dispatched
> a company of seventeen to Los Angeles, to cntinue the work of filming
> the one-reelers, which, incidentally, were known by the brand name of
> "Bison." The company established itself in the suburb of Edendale, on a
> tract of land graced only by a four-room bungalow and a barn. This same
> tract, since then considerably extended, is now the site of the
> Keystone producing plant."
>
> There's a long pretty apocryphal sounding story of the New York origins
> of Keystone under the sub-head "Keystone Nearly Five Years on Coast"
> that then goes on to report the following:
>
> "In September, 1912, Mack Sennett and his players came to Los Angeles
> and took possession of the studio that had been the original site of
> the Bison company."
>
> "Today [Mar. 1917] the open air stages of the Keystone Film Company
> cover five acres."
>
> And then the article goes on to include this info:
>
> "The Fox Company was one of the latest to establish a studio in
> Southern California. In December, 1915, a party of Fox players left New
> York to explore the wild and woolly West. Within a few days after their
> arrival in Los Angeles they had completed arrangements for taking over
> the Selig studio in Edendale."
>
> "About July, 1916, the Fox Company began the making of comedies.
> Charles Parrott directed the first organization. Five other comedy
> companies were quickly added to the list,[...] This continued increase
> had made the Fox organization outgrow the three-quarters of an acre
> which it occupied in Edendale."
>
> I learned a long time ago to take these kinds of p.r. pieces with large
> grains of salt, but it sure leaves me with lots of questions about the
> chronology and occupancy of the Edendale property on Allesandro between
> Effie and Aaron (or Branden St., if that 1845 address that Schneider
> gives for Selig isn't actually a typo) and the degree of geographical
> and facilities separation of the various companies that operated there.
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

hauber108.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> David, though it looks like it could have been remodeled, it's not --
> its a completely different studio. It just happens to have a similiar
> setup to the front of Keystone (the relationship of the building with
> the gate on the right, in a vaguely Spanish style), but if you look at
> the other elements behind it (houses, studio, angle of the hill in the
> BG--itis much steeper here) it's quite different from Keystone. I'm not
> sure when Reaguer was operating but I know Norbig was a going concern
> circa 1915-16 in Edendale (there are a lot of references to it in the
> trades).
>
> I've had time to go back and copies I made of the area from the 1919
> Sanborn fire maps, and It's all there in black and white. The Keystone
> lot across the street occupied 1701-1725 Allesandro. Next to that was a
> domicile at 1727, and the corner business at Aaron was 1729-1731. This
> is the building you're talking about that's still there, and as you
> suggested it could very well be the sandwich shop Chaplin visited.
>
> On the other side of Aaron was another business at 1739. Then at
> 1745-1751 was the studio we're talking about. In 1919, at the time of
> the Sanborn map, it was called the Bronx Studio Motion Picture Film
> Mfg. The 1745 building, seen at the left in the Reaguer photo, was the
> office, lab, projection and cutting rooms building. The gate was
> actually at 1751 Allesandro (this is the address referenced by
> Schneider as "Lone Star"). The map shows a wood frame open stage behind
> that. The house seen at the right with the gabled roof was at 1759
> Allesandro. On the end of that block in 1919 were apparently open lots
> at 1765 and 1769.
>
> The Selig/Fox studio (known as the Garson studio in 1919) at 1845
> Allesandro actually took up the whole block from 1845 to 1869, between
> Clifford and Duane.
>
> Edendale really was studio row in the Teens, competing with Hollywood
> in those early days. However, Sennett was the only operation left there
> by the early Twenties.

The Sanborn evidence is very compelling and must be considered pretty
definitive. But it IS 1919 and even a quick look at the series of
photos of the Keystone facilities on Schneider's site shows how quickly
the structures evolved, and the timeframe of Keystone images
(1912-1915/6) is almost exactly the same length of time as is the gap
of time from the period we were referencing to the date of the Sanborn
map (1915/6-1919). It is for that reason that I discounted the
structures in the immediate area of the entryway. I did find the
similar position of the telephone pole interesting, but that obviously
could be coincidental.

What I find most interesting/troubling is the Moving Picture World
reporting from 1917 that seems to be at odds with the inference taken
from the Sanborn maps that the studios were as independent and
self-contained in 1915 (and before) as they had become in 1919. Who is
wrong, the author of the MPW article when he says Keystone took over
the Selig property via Bison and then expanded it to 5 acres, or the
source of the info that says the provenance is the direct line
evolution of the 3/4 acre lot from Selig to Fox (who outgrew it) to
Garson with Keystone/Bison uninvolved in the occupancy of that parcel?
It's all very curious.

>
> Brent Walker
>
>
>
> David Totheroh wrote:
> > hauber108.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Shush wrote:
> > > > David Totheroh wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Shush wrote:
> > > > > > David, do you mean the address is on the opposite side of Glendale
> > > > > > Blvd., or on the other side of Effie or that other little street,
> > > > > > adjoining the old Sennett lot? Keystone expanded in 1915, and took over
> > > > > > the lot directly across Glendale Blvd. from the main studio.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1745 Allesandro would be on the west side of the street, now Glendale
> > > > > Blvd., across from the Studio (now self-storage building at 1712
> > > > > Glendale Blvd.). The expansion you mention is what I have always heard
> > > > > was office space and set storage.
> > > >
> > > > I believe they set up stages there as well. We could really use
> > > > Brent Walker's expertise here. If Sennett was also using the lot across
> > > > the street from Keystone, then where was the studio that Roach was
> > > > using?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Did Keystone rent their space from F.E. Norton also, or had they
> > > > > purchased that space on the west side of Glendale?
> > > >
> > > > The Keystone lot had been the Bison lot, and it was owned by the New
> > > > York Motion Picture Company, rather than leased. The NYMPC was
> > > > Keystone's parent company, and I think they owned the property from
> > > > around 1911 until NYMPC was folded into Triangle in 1915, and then when
> > > > Sennett broke away from Triangle in 1917 he managed to get title to the
> > > > property as well as the contracts of the people on his staff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --Shush--
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No, 1745 Allesandro St. was a different studio from the Keystone
> > > Studio, or the Keystone annex lot across the street. There were several
> > > studios along Allesandro St. in the early Teens, when Edendale was a
> > > hub of movie making. 1745 Allesandro St. was the Norbig Film Company
> > > studio, which was also rented by a number of other independent film
> > > companies, and was just up the next block from Keystone on the "annex"
> > > side.
> > >
> > > The other big studio along Allesandro was the Selig studio, which was
> > > 1845 Allesandro St. This was where director Francis Boggs was famously
> > > murdered by a deranged gardener in 1911. It became the Fox studios
> > > after Selig moved to Lincoln Park (where the Selig Zoo was), and was
> > > later used by a number of independents as well. To confuse things,
> > > Sennett later leased or bought the Selig/Fox studio in the late teens
> > > and rented it to tenants (among them, Roscoe Arbuckle). What's also
> > > confusing if you see photos of these three wholly different studios is
> > > that they all were constructed with some sort of California Mission
> > > motifs in their front gates or buildings, but all are slightly
> > > different (Selig was by far the most pronounced).
> > >
> > > Jerry Schneider's Movie Making Locations website
> > > (http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/homestud.htm) has a good rundown on the
> > > different studios. Interestingly, he lists a lot at 1751 Allesandro St.
> > > whose tenant was "Lone Star." This would seem to maybe be a different
> > > Lone Star from Chaplin, but the address sounds like it could be a
> > > different annex of the Norbig lot.
> > >
> > > Here's a photo from his site of the Norbig lot when it was Reaguer
> > > Productions:
> > >
> > > http://employees.oxy.edu/jerry/norbig.htm
> >
> > Brent, Do you know what the address was for the Keystone annex on the
> > west side of Allesandro? Effie on the south is the 1699-1700 divide,
> > and Aaron is the 1799-1800 divide. It's too bad the photo on Jerry
> > Schneider's site isn't a little wider. There's a building still
> > standing, now a neighborhood corner latino deli/grocery at the
> > southwest corner of Allesandro and Aaron (the northern border of
> > Keystone), that dates back to Keystone times, which some (myself
> > included) have speculated may have been the sandwich shop Chaplin
> > refers to in My Autobiography when recounting his first day arriving at
> > the studio.
> >
> > Actually, I just went back and looked at 2 photos on Schneider's site
> > side by side. There's a very curious similarity between the "Reaguer
> > Productions" studio entrance that Schneider identifies as being either
> > the Bronx or Norbig Studio at 1745 Alessandro, and the entrance next to
> > the Keystone Film Co. sign listed under Broncho Motion Picture Co. at
> > 1712 Alessandro. (btw, he gives the address of Bison Co. as 1719
> > Alessandro.) The photos are not identical, but the similarity is enough
> > to make me question whether or not they don't represent a remodeling of
> > the same site over time. What were the dates the Reaguer Production
> > company was in operation? Or, are we sure this wasn't just set dressing
> > for a Keystone, or other production company, film ABOUT a fictitious
> > film studio?
> >
> > Also on Schneider's website is an article first published on March 10,
> > 1917 in Moving Picture World by G. P. von Harleman titled "A Review of
> > the Wonderful Development of the Film Producing Industry on the Pacific
> > Coast--Recent News of Some of the Big Plants." The information about
> > the Edendale studios is so incestuous and contradictory(?) that it's
> > hard for me to figure it all out. Here are a few selected quotes:
> >
> > "The Selig company has now two studios in Los Angeles. One is located
> > in Edendale, and at the present time leased by the Keystone."
> >
> > "The next company to reach the Pacific Coast was the New York Motion
> > Picture Corporation. Kessel & Baumann, in the fall of 1909, dispatched
> > a company of seventeen to Los Angeles, to cntinue the work of filming
> > the one-reelers, which, incidentally, were known by the brand name of
> > "Bison." The company established itself in the suburb of Edendale, on a
> > tract of land graced only by a four-room bungalow and a barn. This same
> > tract, since then considerably extended, is now the site of the
> > Keystone producing plant."
> >
> > There's a long pretty apocryphal sounding story of the New York origins
> > of Keystone under the sub-head "Keystone Nearly Five Years on Coast"
> > that then goes on to report the following:
> >
> > "In September, 1912, Mack Sennett and his players came to Los Angeles
> > and took possession of the studio that had been the original site of
> > the Bison company."
> >
> > "Today [Mar. 1917] the open air stages of the Keystone Film Company
> > cover five acres."
> >
> > And then the article goes on to include this info:
> >
> > "The Fox Company was one of the latest to establish a studio in
> > Southern California. In December, 1915, a party of Fox players left New
> > York to explore the wild and woolly West. Within a few days after their
> > arrival in Los Angeles they had completed arrangements for taking over
> > the Selig studio in Edendale."
> >
> > "About July, 1916, the Fox Company began the making of comedies.
> > Charles Parrott directed the first organization. Five other comedy
> > companies were quickly added to the list,[...] This continued increase
> > had made the Fox organization outgrow the three-quarters of an acre
> > which it occupied in Edendale."
> >
> > I learned a long time ago to take these kinds of p.r. pieces with large
> > grains of salt, but it sure leaves me with lots of questions about the
> > chronology and occupancy of the Edendale property on Allesandro between
> > Effie and Aaron (or Branden St., if that 1845 address that Schneider
> > gives for Selig isn't actually a typo) and the degree of geographical
> > and facilities separation of the various companies that operated there.
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

>
> The Sanborn evidence is very compelling and must be considered pretty
> definitive. But it IS 1919 and even a quick look at the series of
> photos of the Keystone facilities on Schneider's site shows how quickly
> the structures evolved, and the timeframe of Keystone images
> (1912-1915/6) is almost exactly the same length of time as is the gap
> of time from the period we were referencing to the date of the Sanborn
> map (1915/6-1919). It is for that reason that I discounted the
> structures in the immediate area of the entryway. I did find the
> similar position of the telephone pole interesting, but that obviously
> could be coincidental.
>
> What I find most interesting/troubling is the Moving Picture World
> reporting from 1917 that seems to be at odds with the inference taken
> from the Sanborn maps that the studios were as independent and
> self-contained in 1915 (and before) as they had become in 1919. Who is
> wrong, the author of the MPW article when he says Keystone took over
> the Selig property via Bison and then expanded it to 5 acres, or the
> source of the info that says the provenance is the direct line
> evolution of the 3/4 acre lot from Selig to Fox (who outgrew it) to
> Garson with Keystone/Bison uninvolved in the occupancy of that parcel?
> It's all very curious.

It's all pretty clear cut...yes, they are completely different studios
and neither entity had anything to do with the formation of the other.

New York Motion Picture Company built the Bison studio in 1909, then in
1912 after Thomas Ince moved Bison to Santa Ynez Canyon and Keystone
was founded by NYMPC, Keystone took over the lot. Sennett remained
there until 1928. The studio was continuously occupied from 1909 to
1928 by NYMPC/Triangle/Sennett. If you see pictures of the front any
time from the early teens to the early Thirties (after it had been
abandoned), the one front building (a former grocery store) and the
gate always looked the same except for signage and small details. Selig
had nothing to do with this studio (either side of the street) ever.

If MPW said Keystone took over Selig property via Bison, then it was
WAY off base. Selig was a wholly different studio built in 1910/11 by
William Selig, which then became Fox, and later a succession of
independent rentals (Sennett may have leased it at some point for extra
production space, but it was not his studio, and Selig never had
anything to do with the rival NYPMC studio).

The Norbig/Reaguer/Bronx/etc. was a third studio, though I'm not sure
when it was built. That definitely seems to be the one that Chaplin
rented, but small independent studios like that often had many
different tenants at once, and their names changed frequently, so it is
possible that Rolin was renting space there at the same time as
Chaplin.

Brent Walker
 >> Stay informed about: Essanay 

hauber108 RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > The Sanborn evidence is very compelling and must be considered pretty
> > definitive. But it IS 1919 and even a quick look at the series of
> > photos of the Keystone facilities on Schneider's site shows how quickly
> > the structures evolved, and the timeframe of Keystone images
> > (1912-1915/6) is almost exactly the same length of time as is the gap
> > of time from the period we were referencing to the date of the Sanborn
> > map (1915/6-1919). It is for that reason that I discounted the
> > structures in the immediate area of the entryway. I did find the
> > similar position of the telephone pole interesting, but that obviously
> > could be coincidental.
> >
> > What I find most interesting/troubling is the Moving Picture World
> > reporting from 1917 that seems to be at odds with the inference taken
> > from the Sanborn maps that the studios were as independent and
> > self-contained in 1915 (and before) as they had become in 1919. Who is
> > wrong, the author of the MPW article when he says Keystone took over
> > the Selig property via Bison and then expanded it to 5 acres, or the
> > source of the info that says the provenance is the direct line
> > evolution of the 3/4 acre lot from Selig to Fox (who outgrew it) to
> > Garson with Keystone/Bison uninvolved in the occupancy of that parcel?
> > It's all very curious.
>
> It's all pretty clear cut...yes, they are completely different studios
> and neither entity had anything to do with the formation of the other.
>
> New York Motion Picture Company built the Bison studio in 1909, then in
> 1912 after Thomas Ince moved Bison to Santa Ynez Canyon and Keystone
> was founded by NYMPC, Keystone took over the lot. Sennett remained
> there until 1928. The studio was continuously occupied from 1909 to
> 1928 by NYMPC/Triangle/Sennett. If you see pictures of the front any
> time from the early teens to the early Thirties (after it had been
> abandoned), the one front building (a former grocery store) and the
> gate always looked the same except for signage and small details. Selig
> had nothing to do with this studio (either side of the street) ever.
>
> If MPW said Keystone took over Selig property via Bison, then it was
> WAY off base. Selig was a wholly different studio built in 1910/11 by
> William Selig, which then became Fox, and later a succession of
> independent rentals (Sennett may have leased it at some point for extra
> production space, but it was not his studio, and Selig never had
> anything to do with the rival NYPMC studio).
>
> The Norbig/Reaguer/Bronx/etc. was a third studio, though I'm not sure
> when it was built. That definitely seems to be the one that Chaplin
> rented, but small independent studios like that often had many
> different tenants at once, and their names changed frequently, so it is