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Since: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 87
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>movies>chaplin (more info?)
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On May 9, 5:22 pm, Phil P. wrote:
> On 9 May 2007 13:44:11 -0700, "constance.kuriy...@ttu.edu"
>
>
>
> wrote:
> >On May 9, 11:05 am, " " wrote:
> >> On May 7, 9:48 pm, G-HE....RemoveThis@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
>
> >> > Noah, in John Huston's THE BIBLE.
>
> >> > Huston stated that he almost persuaded
> >> > CC to play the part he eventually
> >> > played himself.
>
> >> > I think it was one of Chaplin's greatest
> >> > career miscalculations. He might
> >> > have come back as s force in film
> >> > acting late in life.
>
> >> It's been a long time since I saw that movie, but I think I he would
> >> have done a very nice job as Noah. But, would he go for being
> >> directed by someone else after so many years?
>
> >Since he used to make fun of DeMille's biblical epics, why
> >would he want to act in one?
>
> >He toyed with the idea of playing Jesus, but I don't think he
> >had epic treatment in mind.
>
> >Connie K.
>
> Now that might get my vote for the best performance Chaplin never gave.
It's a fascinating idea--one of many that he never realized.
Connie K. |
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Since: May 08, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Oops! You got me. Pauline Kael didn't like The Chase, thanks for
correcting me. It's perhaps understandable that I get these late 60's
atrocious Brando movies mixed up. Maybe Kael liked Reflections in a
Golden Eye, Burn! or Bedtime Story. She liked one of those limping
dogs of a movie starring Marlon.
My proof that Kael had a diseased brain is her summation of Dr.
Strangelove, one of the great movies ever made:
"Dr. Strangelove.... is a joky adolescent view of hypocritical,
sexually dirty authority figures and extending it to all adults...
with an added an extra layer of deformity."
Everyone is entitles to their own opinion, but obviously Kael liked
some truly dismal films and abhored others like Strangelove, which is
a work of genius. There's even a character modeled after George: Buck
Turgidson.
Now, returning to the original subject of CC playing Noah. He told
Geraldine he was an atheist, said something like, "I'm a non-believer.
I wish I could believe, but I cannot." I suspect John Huston also had
no stomach for religion. I believe Chaplin had to invest something of
himself into every character he played, even dark characters like
Hynckel or Verdoux. I don't see him playing a convincing Noah at all.
Had Cecil B. DeMille been alive in '66, that would have been an
inspired choice! He acquited himself very well in Sunset Blvd. So
Demille: YES! Chaplin: NO! |
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Since: Apr 21, 2007
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On May 13, 6:42 pm, Candace wrote:
> Oops! You got me. Pauline Kael didn't like The Chase, thanks for
> correcting me. It's perhaps understandable that I get these late 60's
> atrocious Brando movies mixed up. Maybe Kael liked Reflections in a
> Golden Eye, Burn! or Bedtime Story. She liked one of those limping
> dogs of a movie starring Marlon.
>
> My proof that Kael had a diseased brain is her summation of Dr.
> Strangelove, one of the great movies ever made:
>
> "Dr. Strangelove.... is a joky adolescent view of hypocritical,
> sexually dirty authority figures and extending it to all adults...
> with an added an extra layer of deformity."
>
> Everyone is entitles to their own opinion, but obviously Kael liked
> some truly dismal films and abhored others like Strangelove, which is
> a work of genius. There's even a character modeled after George: Buck
> Turgidson.
>
> Now, returning to the original subject of CC playing Noah. He told
> Geraldine he was an atheist, said something like, "I'm a non-believer.
> I wish I could believe, but I cannot." I suspect John Huston also had
> no stomach for religion. I believe Chaplin had to invest something of
> himself into every character he played, even dark characters like
> Hynckel or Verdoux. I don't see him playing a convincing Noah at all.
> Had Cecil B. DeMille been alive in '66, that would have been an
> inspired choice! He acquited himself very well in Sunset Blvd. So
> Demille: YES! Chaplin: NO!
DeMille never would have played Noah in The Bible.
He would have held out for God.
Tom Moran >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: May 08, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Good point!
I hate DeMille's politics and some other issues relating to his films
and direction, but I have to say he was a pretty good actor. I would
like to have seen him act in more films, the campier the better.
There was a juicy role for C.B. in The Ten Commandments: Dathan, who
was played by Edward G. Robinson, in one of the worst mis-castings in
cinema history. As great an actor as EGR was, this role was so alien
to him he gave a fairly ridiculous performance. C.B. would have risen
to the occasion, worn a purple skirt and ogled Debra Paget the flower
girl for all he was world.
Instead of lamenting that Chaplin never played Noah, movie lovers
should be copiously weeping that CB DeMille didn't play Dathan. >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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ulysses DeleteThis @mscomm.com (Candace)
wrote:
>My proof that Kael had a diseased brain
Most people believed Kael to be one
of most eminent film critics of her day....
>is her summation of Dr. Strangelove, one
>of the great movies ever made:
>"Dr. Strangelove.... is a joky adolescent
>view of hypocritical, sexually dirty
>authority figures and extending it to all
>adults... with an added an extra layer of
>deformity."
I think DR STRANGELOVE does exhibitt
a Mad Magazine adolescent humor.
>Everyone is entitles to their own opinion,
>but obviously Kael liked some truly
>dismal films and abhored others like
>Strangelove,
She didn't abhor it.
> which is a work of genius. There's even
>a character modeled after George: Buck
>Turgidson.
But I see you've graduated from the Tom
Moran school of drive-by slurs and smears, though, to your credit you
don't gutlessly snarl at me from behind a killfile.
>Now, returning to the original subject of
>CC playing Noah. He told Geraldine he
>was an atheist, said something like, "I'm
>a non-believer. I wish I could believe, but
>I cannot." I suspect John Huston also
>had no stomach for religion.
> I believe Chaplin had to invest
>something of himself into every
>character he played, even dark
>characters like Hynckel or Verdoux. I
>don't see him playing a convincing Noah
Huston played the part and wasn't
a believer either. Chaplin would have
fit seamlessly into Huston's design,
which is why he wanted him, >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:34 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Candace wrote:
>There was a juicy role for C.B. in The
>Ten Commandments: Dathan, who was
>played by Edward G. Robinson, in one of
>the worst mis-castings in cinema history.
Why? Dathan was a Jewish villain
and traitor and Robinson was Jewish
and played villains. Also, he was
grateful to DeMille for casting him,, despite their political
differences.
Robinson had been a victim of the
Hollywood blacklist and when DeMille
learned about that, he hired him...yeah,
that evil conservative DeMille. >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: May 08, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:56 am
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I love Robinson and think he was a truly great actor. But he was
obviously miscast in the role even if he was Jewish. The snarling New
York accent was absurd. It isn't a criticism of Robinson, who could
read the phone book aloud and be interesting. It was an over-the-top
character hammily played by EGR. He was thrown into campy sets with a
camp costume and somewhat ridiculous dialogue.
DeMille would have brought a solemnity to the role without the grating
(and out of place) NY accent. But DeMille would have refused to
lustily go after the nubile Debra Paget, this wouldn't gibe with his
Godly image. >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 30
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:58 am
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On May 15, 8:34 pm, G-HE....TakeThisOut@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> Candace wrote:
> >There was a juicy role for C.B. in The
> >Ten Commandments: Dathan, who was
> >played by Edward G. Robinson, in one of
> >the worst mis-castings in cinema history.
>
> Why? Dathan was a Jewish villain
> and traitor and Robinson was Jewish
> and played villains. Also, he was
> grateful to DeMille for casting him,, despite their political
> differences.
And he was woefully miscast. Billy Crystal does a devastating
impression of Robinson in THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
>
> Robinson had been a victim of the
> Hollywood blacklist and when DeMille
> learned about that, he hired him...yeah,
> that evil conservative DeMille.
DeMille is the guy who tried to ram a loyalty oath through the
Director's Guild. Thank God John Ford stood up to him. He also
>hired< blacklisted composer Elmer Bernstein for THE TEN
COMMANDMENTS. As Brando said of CC, he was a "mixed bag." >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:35 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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rfcsac627n.RemoveThis@aol.com (Richard Carnahan)
wrote:
>There was a juicy role for C.B. in The
>Ten Commandments: Dathan, who was
>played by Edward G. Robinson, in one of
>the worst mis-castings in cinema history.
>>Why? Dathan was a Jewish villain
>>and traitor and Robinson was Jewish
>>and played villains. Also, he was
>>grateful to DeMille for casting
>>him,,despite their political differences.
>And he was woefully miscast. Billy
>Crystal does a devastating impression of
>Robinson in THE TEN
>COMMANDMENTS.
You just need to grow up and stop expecting actors to play the same
roles
over and over in order to support
your fantasy world.
>>Robinson had been a victim of the
>>Hollywood blacklist and when DeMille
>>learned about that, he hired him...yeah,
>>that evil conservative DeMille.
>DeMille is the guy who tried to ram a
>loyalty oath through the Director's Guild.
>Thank God John Ford stood up to him.
Yes, thank God the Directors Guild was
saved from having to affirm American
values.
>He also
>hired< blacklisted composer Elmer
>Bernstein for THE TEN
>COMMANDMENTS. As Brando said of
>CC, he was a "mixed bag."
You can be in favor of allegiance to
basic American values and against
Communism and still be against
blacklisting. Where's the
contradiction? >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: May 08, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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George, it's hopeless if you can't admit (and clearly see) that Edward
G. Robinson as Dathan was an idiotic piece of casting. Who cares if
both were Jewish? It's like Tony Curtis in Spartacus with his Bronx
accent screaming "I'm Spah-tah-cus!"
Characters in Biblical pieces shouldn't have New York accents, George.
Even you should admit this.
As for DeMille, I don't despise him because of his right-wing
politics. I disagree with his views during the McCarthy era and
disagree with him on just about everything politically. But I won't
deny CB's tremendous influence and occasional flashes of brilliance. I
also think he was a pretty good actor from the glimpses we get in
Sunset Blvd.
One of the great campy scenes in movie history occurs in CB's
underrated (and hilarious!!) 1932 movie, Sign of the Cross. Check out
Charles Laughton as Nero, licking his fingers as alligators and
gorillas rape maidens in the Roman arena. Dwarfs are decapitated,
elephants squash to death Christians... it's CB at his most depraved
and artful. >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: May 08, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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George, it's hopeless if you can't admit (and clearly see) that Edward
G. Robinson as Dathan was an idiotic piece of casting. Who cares if
both were Jewish? It's like Tony Curtis in Spartacus with his Bronx
accent screaming "I'm Spah-tah-cus!"
Characters in Biblical pieces shouldn't have New York accents, George.
Even you should admit this.
As for DeMille, I don't despise him because of his right-wing
politics. I disagree with his views during the McCarthy era and
disagree with him on just about everything politically. But I won't
deny CB's tremendous influence and occasional flashes of brilliance. I
also think he was a pretty good actor from the glimpses we get in
Sunset Blvd.
One of the great campy scenes in movie history occurs in CB's
underrated (and hilarious!!) 1932 movie, Sign of the Cross. Check out
Charles Laughton as Nero, licking his fingers as alligators and
gorillas rape maidens in the Roman arena. Dwarfs are decapitated,
elephants squash to death Christians... it's CB at his most depraved
and artful. >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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ulysses RemoveThis @mscomm.com (Candace) wrote:
>George, it's hopeless if you can't admi
>(and clearly see) that Edward
>G. Robinson as Dathan was an idiotic
>piece of casting. Who cares if both were
>Jewish? It's like Tony Curtis in Spartacus
>with his Bronx accent screaming "I'm
>Spah-tah-cus!"
Robinson's speech is in no way comparable to Curtis's.
But by casting DeMille as Dathan, you're
just making a political point against
DeMille, not making an esthetic
judgment.
I think Robinson was fine.
>Characters in Biblical pieces shouldn't
>have New York accents, George. Even
>you should admit this.
I think Robinson's gangster persona
was appropriate for Dathan/ >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On May 16, 3:35 pm, G-HE....DeleteThis@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> rfcsac6....DeleteThis@aol.com (Richard Carnahan)
> wrote:
>
> >There was a juicy role for C.B. in The
> >Ten Commandments: Dathan, who was
> >played by Edward G. Robinson, in one of
> >the worst mis-castings in cinema history.
> >>Why? Dathan was a Jewish villain
> >>and traitor and Robinson was Jewish
> >>and played villains. Also, he was
> >>grateful to DeMille for casting
> >>him,,despite their political differences.
> >And he was woefully miscast. Billy
> >Crystal does a devastating impression of
> >Robinson in THE TEN
> >COMMANDMENTS.
>
> You just need to grow up and stop expecting actors to play the same
> roles
> over and over in order to support
> your fantasy world.
>
> >>Robinson had been a victim of the
> >>Hollywood blacklist and when DeMille
> >>learned about that, he hired him...yeah,
> >>that evil conservative DeMille.
> >DeMille is the guy who tried to ram a
> >loyalty oath through the Director's Guild.
> >Thank God John Ford stood up to him.
>
> Yes, thank God the Directors Guild was
> saved from having to affirm American
> values.
I don't expect that you'll ever understand, but it's un-American to
HAVE "to affirm American values." Freedom of speech is meaningless
unless it also includes the freedom not to speak.
>
> >He also
> >hired< blacklisted composer Elmer
> >Bernstein for THE TEN
> >COMMANDMENTS. As Brando said of
> >CC, he was a "mixed bag."
>
> You can be in favor of allegiance to
> basic American values and against
> Communism and still be against
> blacklisting. Where's the
> contradiction? >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 886
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Totheroh wrote:
>I don't expect that you'll ever understand,
>but it's un-American to HAVE "to affirm
>American values." Freedom of speech is
>meaningless unless it also includes the
>freedom not to speak.
That applies to voluntary public speech,
private organizations may have their
own standards.
By the way, it's typical of you left-wing
ideologues to turn a discussion of
Chaplin possibly playing Noah into
a political squabble. >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 30
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: The best performance Chaplin never gave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On May 16, 3:35 pm, G-HE....TakeThisOut@webtv.net (George Shelps) wrote:
> rfcsac6....TakeThisOut@aol.com (Richard Carnahan)
> wrote:
>
> >There was a juicy role for C.B. in The
> >Ten Commandments: Dathan, who was
> >played by Edward G. Robinson, in one of
> >the worst mis-castings in cinema history.
> >>Why? Dathan was a Jewish villain
> >>and traitor and Robinson was Jewish
> >>and played villains. Also, he was
> >>grateful to DeMille for casting
> >>him,,despite their political differences.
> >And he was woefully miscast. Billy
> >Crystal does a devastating impression of
> >Robinson in THE TEN
> >COMMANDMENTS.
>
> You just need to grow up and stop expecting actors to play the same
> roles
> over and over in order to support
> your fantasy world.
Boy, it doesn't take much to set you off.
>
> >>Robinson had been a victim of the
> >>Hollywood blacklist and when DeMille
> >>learned about that, he hired him...yeah,
> >>that evil conservative DeMille.
> >DeMille is the guy who tried to ram a
> >loyalty oath through the Director's Guild.
> >Thank God John Ford stood up to him.
>
> Yes, thank God the Directors Guild was
> saved from having to affirm American
> values.
Yes, we all know that John Ford was opposed to American values.
>
> >He also
> >hired< blacklisted composer Elmer
> >Bernstein for THE TEN
> >COMMANDMENTS. As Brando said of
> >CC, he was a "mixed bag."
>
> You can be in favor of allegiance to
> basic American values and against
> Communism and still be against
> blacklisting. Where's the
> contradiction?
To quote Joseph L Mankiewicz, "My closest friend is Merian Cooper and
he happens to be a brigadier general in the United States Army, and
last night, as we were having dinner, Coop said he wouldn't sign any
goddam loyalty oath and he said what we were making was a blacklist,
and if a brigadier general in the Army tells me it's a blacklist, then
it's a goddam blacklist." >> Stay informed about: The best performance Chaplin never gave |
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