Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R

Ande Schurr wrote:
> Did everything I read in sound devices manual - and on the forum but
> I must have missed something as when I went to Jam Rx TC all I got
> was lines instead of numbers. Am I supposed to activate something on
> the camera end as additional to ensuring the TC is set to exactly same
> rate? 23.97 (although 744 displays this as 23.97ND)
>
> My flow:
>
> Lectro 200C Tx connected to the Camera's BNC TC Out and transmitting
> to RX
> Rx --> to TC input on 744.
>
> Ensured wireless was transmitting at line level (which I interpreted
> by turning down both Tx and Rx till levels were moderate
>
> The rationale for this is that I'll be recording 90%direct to camera
> but some scenes will involve camera setups that make a cable attached
> undesirable. I don't have a zaxcom to transmit wirelessly to camera so
> production decided to go with recording separate system only during
> those tricky setups. Director wants TC so easy to sync up in post so I
> planned to set 744 to EXT TC Cont/Run Record mode so camera would
> activate 744 when recording (and account for possible RF interference
> hence the 'Cont' option).
>
> Open to all suggestions, thanks in advance,
>
> Ande
>
> Ande Schurr
> Auckland, New Zealand
> www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>

Ande,

Crank your levels on the transmitter and receiver. I have never tried
this with a 200 series setup, just a T2, R1 IFB combo.

Using the T2, I crank the input level to where the second LED is lit
solid. Then I adjust the receiver output until I get good solid running
code.

I'm not sure what the output difference would be between a UCR200 and
the HP output of the R1, but definitely set the receiver to it's highest
gain. Failing that, try a line amp on the output of the receiver.

Once you get running code you can fine tune the level settings to try
and get the transmitter out of limiting.

---Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

On May 4, 3:06 pm, Matt Mayer <m....TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
> Ande Schurr wrote:
> > Did everything I read in sound devices manual - and on the forum but
> > I must have missed something as when I went to Jam Rx TC all I got
> > was lines instead of numbers. Am I supposed to activate something on
> > the camera end as additional to ensuring the TC is set to exactly same
> > rate? 23.97 (although 744 displays this as 23.97ND)
>
> > My flow:
>
> > Lectro 200C Tx connected to the Camera's BNC TC Out and transmitting
> > to RX
> > Rx --> to TC input on 744.
>
> > Ensured wireless was transmitting at line level (which I interpreted
> > by turning down both Tx and Rx till levels were moderate
>
> > The rationale for this is that I'll be recording 90%direct to camera
> > but some scenes will involve camera setups that make a cable attached
> > undesirable. I don't have a zaxcom to transmit wirelessly to camera so
> > production decided to go with recording separate system only during
> > those tricky setups. Director wants TC so easy to sync up in post so I
> > planned to set 744 to EXT TC Cont/Run Record mode so camera would
> > activate 744 when recording (and account for possible RF interference
> > hence the 'Cont' option).
>
> > Open to all suggestions, thanks in advance,
>
> > Ande
>
> > Ande Schurr
> > Auckland, New Zealand
> >www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>
> Ande,
>
> Crank your levels on the transmitter and receiver. I have never tried
> this with a 200 series setup, just a T2, R1 IFB combo.
>
> Using the T2, I crank the input level to where the second LED is lit
> solid. Then I adjust the receiver output until I get good solid running
> code.
>
> I'm not sure what the output difference would be between a UCR200 and
> the HP output of the R1, but definitely set the receiver to it's highest
> gain. Failing that, try a line amp on the output of the receiver.
>
> Once you get running code you can fine tune the level settings to try
> and get the transmitter out of limiting.
>
> ---Matt

Thanks for your replies.

Carlos - have been doing camera tests today and got what I want to
work via cable (instead of wireless) jamming camera to 744 on Free Run
mode - thanks for your suggestion.
Was speaking to another soundie who advices not to trust TC on a
camera - likely to be unreliable - and suggested using ambient
timelocks on both ends.

The reason I am sticking to slaving 744 to camera is that I anticipate
recording more than 90% audio straight to camera - and the rest to my
recorder (post-production budget won't allow too much separate
syncing) - I feel it illogical to interrupt tc on camera with my tc
just those few times I'll be recording separately. Hence my plan to
slave 744 to camera. Will simply rejam frequently to maintain sync.

Ande

www.fieldsounds.co.nz
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

On May 4, 3:06 pm, Matt Mayer <m... DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
> Ande Schurr wrote:
> > Did everything I read in sound devices manual - and on the forum but
> > I must have missed something as when I went to Jam Rx TC all I got
> > was lines instead of numbers. Am I supposed to activate something on
> > the camera end as additional to ensuring the TC is set to exactly same
> > rate? 23.97 (although 744 displays this as 23.97ND)
>
> > My flow:
>
> > Lectro 200C Tx connected to the Camera's BNC TC Out and transmitting
> > to RX
> > Rx --> to TC input on 744.
>
> > Ensured wireless was transmitting at line level (which I interpreted
> > by turning down both Tx and Rx till levels were moderate
>
> > The rationale for this is that I'll be recording 90%direct to camera
> > but some scenes will involve camera setups that make a cable attached
> > undesirable. I don't have a zaxcom to transmit wirelessly to camera so
> > production decided to go with recording separate system only during
> > those tricky setups. Director wants TC so easy to sync up in post so I
> > planned to set 744 to EXT TC Cont/Run Record mode so camera would
> > activate 744 when recording (and account for possible RF interference
> > hence the 'Cont' option).
>
> > Open to all suggestions, thanks in advance,
>
> > Ande
>
> > Ande Schurr
> > Auckland, New Zealand
> >www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>
> Ande,
>
> Crank your levels on the transmitter and receiver. I have never tried
> this with a 200 series setup, just a T2, R1 IFB combo.
>
> Using the T2, I crank the input level to where the second LED is lit
> solid. Then I adjust the receiver output until I get good solid running
> code.
>
> I'm not sure what the output difference would be between a UCR200 and
> the HP output of the R1, but definitely set the receiver to it's highest
> gain. Failing that, try a line amp on the output of the receiver.
>
> Once you get running code you can fine tune the level settings to try
> and get the transmitter out of limiting.
>
> ---Matt

Hi Matt,

I tried that and heard the beeps of the timecode loud and clear but
still nothing. Doing some more testing tomorrow.

I found that when I cable-jammed recorder to camera, I had to have one
channel of audio plugged into camera for the 744 to display the
camera's TC and Frame Rate.
That is, I had both TC cable attached to 744 and a channel of audio
connected. Then I didn't have to do anything in the settings on 744
except ensure it was set to EXT TC/Cont

When I only had time code cable attached there was no sync. Is this
normal?

Ande

www.fieldsounds.co.nz
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

<snip>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> I tried that and heard the beeps of the timecode loud and clear but
> still nothing. Doing some more testing tomorrow.
>
> I found that when I cable-jammed recorder to camera, I had to have one
> channel of audio plugged into camera for the 744 to display the
> camera's TC and Frame Rate.
> That is, I had both TC cable attached to 744 and a channel of audio
> connected. Then I didn't have to do anything in the settings on 744
> except ensure it was set to EXT TC/Cont
>
> When I only had time code cable attached there was no sync. Is this
> normal?
>
> Ande
>
> www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>

Ande,

That sounds extremely odd. How are your cables wired?

I'm taking a total shot in the dark here, but since you say you get good
code when you connect an audio cable to the camera when hardwired, that
the audio cable is giving you a ground to camera and completing the
circuit for the time code.

I'll pull out my 200 series lectro today and try some tests.

---Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

On May 5, 2:37 am, Matt Mayer <m... DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Matt,
>
> > I tried that and heard the beeps of the timecode loud and clear but
> > still nothing. Doing some more testing tomorrow.
>
> > I found that when I cable-jammed recorder to camera, I had to have one
> > channel of audio plugged into camera for the 744 to display the
> > camera's TC and Frame Rate.
> > That is, I had both TC cable attached to 744 and a channel of audio
> > connected. Then I didn't have to do anything in the settings on 744
> > except ensure it was set to EXT TC/Cont
>
> > When I only had time code cable attached there was no sync. Is this
> > normal?
>
> > Ande
>
> >www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>
> Ande,
>
> That sounds extremely odd. How are your cables wired?
>
> I'm taking a total shot in the dark here, but since you say you get good
> code when you connect an audio cable to the camera when hardwired, that
> the audio cable is giving you a ground to camera and completing the
> circuit for the time code.
>
> I'll pull out my 200 series lectro today and try some tests.
>
> ---Matt

Hi Matt,

my cables are:

- BNC (connected to TC Out on F900R) to Female XLR (is connected to -)
- Male barrel XLR (am getting cable made which goes straight to Male
XLR which connects to - )
- standard TC Input Female XLR (which comes bundled with 744T)

Ande

www.fieldsounds.co.nz
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

On May 5, 7:55 am, Ande Schurr <andesch....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 5, 2:37 am, Matt Mayer <m....RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > Hi Matt,
>
> > > I tried that and heard the beeps of the timecode loud and clear but
> > > still nothing. Doing some more testing tomorrow.
>
> > > I found that when I cable-jammed recorder to camera, I had to have one
> > > channel of audio plugged into camera for the 744 to display the
> > > camera's TC and Frame Rate.
> > > That is, I had both TC cable attached to 744 and a channel of audio
> > > connected. Then I didn't have to do anything in the settings on 744
> > > except ensure it was set to EXT TC/Cont
>
> > > When I only had time code cable attached there was no sync. Is this
> > > normal?
>
> > > Ande
>
> > >www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>
> > Ande,
>
> > That sounds extremely odd. How are your cables wired?
>
> > I'm taking a total shot in the dark here, but since you say you get good
> > code when you connect an audio cable to the camera when hardwired, that
> > the audio cable is giving you a ground to camera and completing the
> > circuit for the time code.
>
> > I'll pull out my 200 series lectro today and try some tests.
>
> > ---Matt
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> my cables are:
>
> - BNC (connected to TC Out on F900R) to Female XLR (is connected to -)
> - Male barrel XLR (am getting cable made which goes straight to Male
> XLR which connects to - )
> - standard TC Input Female XLR (which comes bundled with 744T)
>
> Ande
>
> www.fieldsounds.co.nz

Matt - to answer your question more accurately - cables seem to wired
in the standard way.
BNC is earthed to 1 and connected to 3 on XLR Female.
Barrel is standard barrel I think - can't get in there to find out!
and TC cable as I mentioned is standard 744.

cheers

Ande

www.fieldsounds.co.nz
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

> BNC is earthed to 1 and connected to 3 on XLR Female.
Ande -
>From my own experience in wiring the 5 pin lemo on the 744T, at the
XLR end, pin 1 and Pin 2 must be strapped together to get a signal
into the 744T.
Regards,
David Glasser, ASSG
Production Sound Mixer,
Sydney, AUSTRALIA
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

On May 5, 9:57 am, David Glasser <sound....TakeThisOut@people.net.au> wrote:
> > BNC is earthed to 1 and connected to 3 on XLR Female.
> Ande -
> >From my own experience in wiring the 5 pin lemo on the 744T, at the
>
> XLR end, pin 1 and Pin 2 must be strapped together to get a signal
> into the 744T.
> Regards,
> David Glasser, ASSG
> Production Sound Mixer,
> Sydney, AUSTRALIA

David, thanks for your suggestion.
I can solder basic mic cables but am still learning the lingo - could
you please explain what 'strapped together' means?
And by the 'XLR end' I presume you are talking about the XLR M which
connected on other end to camera TC Out BNC?


Thanks

Ande

www.fieldsounds.co.nz
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

On May 5, 2:07 pm, Ande Schurr <andesch... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 5, 9:57 am, David Glasser <sound... DeleteThis @people.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > BNC is earthed to 1 and connected to 3 on XLR Female.
> > Ande -
> > >From my own experience in wiring the 5 pin lemo on the 744T, at the
>
> > XLR end, pin 1 and Pin 2 must be strapped together to get a signal
> > into the 744T.
> > Regards,
> > David Glasser, ASSG
> > Production Sound Mixer,
> > Sydney, AUSTRALIA
>
> David, thanks for your suggestion.
> I can solder basic mic cables but am still learning the lingo - could
> you please explain what 'strapped together' means?
> And by the 'XLR end' I presume you are talking about the XLR M which
> connected on other end to camera TC Out BNC?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ande
>
> www.fieldsounds.co.nz

Hi Ande
Solder a piece of wire between pin 1 (ground) and pin 2 (centre) of
the XLR. The centre wire of the BNC cable goes to pin 3 ( opposite
pin 1 on XLR)

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
David.
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R 

Ande Schurr wrote:
> On May 5, 2:37 am, Matt Mayer <m....TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Matt,
>>> I tried that and heard the beeps of the timecode loud and clear but
>>> still nothing. Doing some more testing tomorrow.
>>> I found that when I cable-jammed recorder to camera, I had to have one
>>> channel of audio plugged into camera for the 744 to display the
>>> camera's TC and Frame Rate.
>>> That is, I had both TC cable attached to 744 and a channel of audio
>>> connected. Then I didn't have to do anything in the settings on 744
>>> except ensure it was set to EXT TC/Cont
>>> When I only had time code cable attached there was no sync. Is this
>>> normal?
>>> Ande
>>> www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>> Ande,
>>
>> That sounds extremely odd. How are your cables wired?
>>
>> I'm taking a total shot in the dark here, but since you say you get good
>> code when you connect an audio cable to the camera when hardwired, that
>> the audio cable is giving you a ground to camera and completing the
>> circuit for the time code.
>>
>> I'll pull out my 200 series lectro today and try some tests.
>>
>> ---Matt
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> my cables are:
>
> - BNC (connected to TC Out on F900R) to Female XLR (is connected to -)
> - Male barrel XLR (am getting cable made which goes straight to Male
> XLR which connects to - )
> - standard TC Input Female XLR (which comes bundled with 744T)
>
> Ande
>
> www.fieldsounds.co.nz
>
>
>
>

Ande,

David Glasser hit the nail on the head. The Sound Devices cables are
wired Pin 2 hot and Pin 3 cold. Normally, an unbalanced signal would be
wired Pin 1 ground and Pin 2 hot.

When we originally designed the cables, using the 1 and 2 configuration
gave us strange results getting code out of a PD-4, which, at the time,
was our standard test-bed for compatibility. With a 1/2 cable the TC
frame rate would jitter enough that the Frame Rate indicator of the 744
would flutter between 30 and 29.97. The 2/3 configuration fixed that,
so we wired the XLR cables that way.

So to answer your question, the reason you aren't getting code over the
200 series is you need to wire a special output cable when pin 2 goes to
pin 2 and pin 1 of the receiver output goes to pin 3 of the XLR timecode
cable.

As David said, tying pin 1 and 2 together for the wired configuration
would work, but I think tying 1 and 3 together would be safer. Tying 1
and 2 together in the wireless setup probably wouldn't work (or wouldn't
work well...) just because you are tying the Lectro's signal to ground,
but I haven't tested that.

---Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Need help slaving 744T to Sony HDW-F900R