how to improve newsgroup access

I miss the old newsgroup as well...only suggestion I have is that
someone start another one, something not google-based...

It seems like every cast has a forum of one kind or another...the
Official RHPS forum has a LOT of newer fans from all over the world,
maybe everyone should hang out there?

Its either start a new newsgroup/forum or we all gather at one
location or other, or this.

:( Bill :(
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

What's wrong with google-based? It's user friendly and free...(not
that I'm pitching google or anything...)

I do agree however on the disconnect between older and newer fans.
There are whole new generations of ROCKY fans out there and more
always coming. The danger of a group like this to become isolated and
insulated and eventually out of touch, static and stagnant is
significant. I'd like to see that process halted and reversed.

Matteo
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

On May 26, 3:00 pm, AZRocky <AZRo... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> What's wrong with google-based? It's user friendly and free...(not
> that I'm pitching google or anything...)
>
> I do agree however on the disconnect between older and newer fans.
> There are whole new generations of ROCKY fans out there and more
> always coming. The danger of a group like this to become isolated and
> insulated and eventually out of touch, static and stagnant is
> significant. I'd like to see that process halted and reversed.
>
> Matteo

the thing about Aol was tha thit was so easily accessible to so many
because so many were on AOL already. And they even opened it up for
non aol users. How do we emulate that. How do we send out an
announcement? Do we make a separate website for the NG that gives
handholding easy access?
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

On May 30, 4:04 am, The Fixxer <thefix... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 3:00 pm, AZRocky <AZRo... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with google-based? It's user friendly and free...(not
> > that I'm pitching google or anything...)
>
> > I do agree however on the disconnect between older and newer fans.
> > There are whole new generations of ROCKY fans out there and more
> > always coming. The danger of a group like this to become isolated and
> > insulated and eventually out of touch, static and stagnant is
> > significant. I'd like to see that process halted and reversed.
>
> > Matteo
>
> the thing about Aol was tha thit was so easily accessible to so many
> because so many were on AOL already. And they even opened it up for
> non aol users. How do we emulate that. How do we send out an
> announcement? Do we make a separate website for the NG that gives
> handholding easy access?

Hey, Mark,

Goes to show you how much I don't use AOL's actual service anymore
(aside from the email). I didn't even know they stopped newsgroup
access! That sucks. I jump on here via Google Groups....
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

AZRocky wrote:
> What's wrong with google-based? It's user friendly and free...

I've always hated Google Groups, honestly. I'm just reading directly
from Thunderbird these days.

> I do agree however on the disconnect between older and newer fans.
> There are whole new generations of ROCKY fans out there and more
> always coming. The danger of a group like this to become isolated and
> insulated and eventually out of touch, static and stagnant is
> significant.

The basic issue is that younger people have no clue what Usenet is. Web
site forums and social networking sites though, they live and breathe.
A web-based portal to a specific newsgroup (like www.recpoker.com for
rec.gambling.poker) provides an obvious lead-in for people that feel
more comfortable with web site forums. They may never actually
understand that there's a Usenet newsgroup behind it at all, as long as
they're only going to the one web site. RockyNewsgroup.org worked well
both because of all that and the archives that were indexed by various
search engines. People would frequently do web searches for completely
random things and turn up an old thread on the newsgroup. Of course
this also resulted in periodic thread necromancy, but at least they were
interested enough to post something in the first place which just
doesn't happen these days for the most part.

Now I've also seen web-based forums launched that almost completely
replaced Usenet groups. I used to read rec.games.go periodically, but
its content got worse and worse over time. It was frequently dominated
by one person who tried to advance his own political agendas and enjoyed
picking fights with every person he could. It was pretty obnoxious, as
this almost completely replaced the actual threads talking about Go. So
an enterprising person launched www.GoDiscussions.com as a moderated
alternative to the newsgroup, and people fled there in droves. We were
only too happy to have moderators, after seeing what the anarchy of the
newsgroup resulted in.

Obviously there are already quite a few web-based discussion forums for
Rocky Horror. They're fragmented, in that each one caters to a
particular subset of Rocky Horror fans for the most part.
RockyHorror.com forums are great for new fans but not quite as
interesting for old farts like me, Timewarp forums are great for U.K.
fans but not as interesting for people in the USA, Rockycast.net is good
for younger people (it feels like middle or high school to me there),
and then there are the specialty forums like the costuming forums,
RockyMusic.org for audio, the Tim Curry forums, etc. A lot of people
will stick to one set of forums simply because they know a majority of
the people there. Probably most of us that still read the newsgroup are
guilty of this...:p I'm not sure of exactly what's needed for a more
widely used discussion forum/newsgroup, but I'm hopeful that someone
will try to work up a web site for it.

--
Shawn McHorse
Queerios (Austin, Texas)
http://www.rockymusic.org
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

I hate Google Groups.

What I really liked about Usenet was it came to me. I could see which
threads I had read and which I hadn't.

Of course, I could still do that if I was willing to switch back to
Outlook Express instead of Outlook. (Outlook has a workaround to
allow Usenet news access, but it functions very poorly and breaks down
a lot.)

Google Groups is one more place I have to go to see what's going on.
Or one more message in my inbox saying there are a bunch of new things
I haven't read yet. Which tends to get ignored with all the other
gazillions of messages I should be doing something with in my personal
files.

I frequent the LiveJournal costumers group because I have to; it's
where all the costume discussions are. And I can get it as part of a
Friends page I would visit anyway (though sometimes days or a week
pass before I remember to go look - again, it's not content coming to
me - though responses to threads I start do).

There are some other excellent webforums out there - like a costume
one that Mark started - that I simply don't remember to visit. Most
web forums do seem to aim at younger people.

I've tried webforums (webfora?) on various subjects and just don't
seem to be able to muster enough interest to have to go visit the
different sites every day to see what's new. There are a couple of
blogs I read most days; other than that really the only content I go
looking for is some of the click-through charity sites and the
occasional comic strip (and I really should see about making that more
one-stop).

Just thinking out loud here; I realized I'm not solving anything. I
just got back from the show and should obviously be in bed.

I don't know about others' preferences, but if I were going to start
an alternative to the newsgroup, I'd probably start another group on
LiveJournal. A bunch of Rocky folks are on LJ already, and
membership's free. The one real downside is that it's a heck of a lot
easier to find old content using, say, Googlegroups than LJ, whose
search capacities, to be polite...well, let's just say I'm not
impressed.

There are several Rocky-related LJ groups already, but most of the
ones I've seen have been of the "feels like middle school" variety and
I stay away from 'em. Perhaps I could include a "newsgroup regulars
and old farts welcome, as well as newbies."

I miss the on-line newbies too. Newbies may not always have a clue,
but they have a lot of good energy.

Ruth
(another old fart)
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

Ruth>I frequent the LiveJournal costumers group because I have to;
Ruth>it's where all the costume discussions are.

<http://community.livejournal.com/rhpscostumes/profile> (for those who
don't know.)

Ruth>And I can get it as part of a Friends page I would visit anyway
Ruth>(though sometimes days or a week pass before I remember to go look -
Ruth>again, it's not content coming to me - though responses to threads
Ruth>I start do).

<http://www.livejournal.com/manage/subscriptions/user.bml?
journal=rhpscostumes> Use that link, and you can be notified whenever
"Someone posts a new entry to rhpscostumes".

Ruth>...other than that really the only content I go looking for is ...
Ruth>the occasional comic strip (and I really should see about making
Ruth>that more one-stop).

There are a few ways of doing that. In Firefox, for instance, you can
put all of your webcomic bookmarks into one folder, and with a single
right-click operation Firefox will open all of the simultaneously. Then,
you just read them all. I also have programs that I've written for this
purpose.

Ruth>I don't know about others' preferences, but if I were going to
Ruth>start an alternative to the newsgroup, I'd probably start another
Ruth>group on LiveJournal.

Why not try to get those newgroupers who aren't already on LJ to join
up and join an existing group rather than start yet another new one? I'm
already in at least a dozen RHPS/ST-related groups, and that's not all of
them. I think rockyhorrorshow is the biggest one:
<http://community.livejournal.com/rockyhorrorshow/profile>

Ruth>The one real downside is that it's a heck of a lot easier to find
Ruth>old content using, say, Googlegroups than LJ, whose search
Ruth>capacities, to be polite...well, let's just say I'm not impressed.

First, unless the journal user/community moderation chooses to block
search engines from indexing their site, you should be able to use Google
to find LJ content (just like using Google to find old rockynewsgroup.org
threads). I've done this from time to time, on my LJ and others.
There are other methods which take more work, such as indexing LJ
posts by subject(s) using Memories or Tags. Only the moderator(s) can
update a community's memories, but I think there's an option to let others
update the tags.

Ruth>There are several Rocky-related LJ groups already, but most of the
Ruth>ones I've seen have been of the "feels like middle school" variety
Ruth>and I stay away from 'em. Perhaps I could include a "newsgroup
Ruth>regulars and old farts welcome, as well as newbies."

Perhaps the other groups seem that way *because* the old farts are
staying away?
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

Well-stated, Arthur. (And thanks for the LJ help.)

I've just joined the group you suggested below; it looked pretty
decent.

Ruth

On Jun 2, 8:15 am, stor... DeleteThis @gmail.com (Arthur Levesque) wrote:

> Why not try to get those newgroupers who aren't already on LJ to join
> up and join an existing group rather than start yet another new one? I'm
> already in at least a dozen RHPS/ST-related groups, and that's not all of
> them. I think rockyhorrorshow is the biggest one:
> <http://community.livejournal.com/rockyhorrorshow/profile>
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

Arthur Levesque wrote:
> Perhaps the other groups seem that way *because* the old farts are
> staying away?

If so it's a vicious circle because I don't mind trying out new forums,
but if they're not interesting, are too cliqueish, or are filled with
middle school mentalities then I'm not going to go back. I can also
categorically say that I will never be a part of any LiveJournal
community (or MySpace for that matter). Not only am I not interested in
the social networking aspects, I'm also not terribly appreciative of
community sites run by business interests instead of the fans.

--
Shawn McHorse
Queerios (Austin, Texas)
http://www.rockymusic.org
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

I personally find the google access the easiest. It's one website to
go to, or one email to get--just like the rockynewsgroup.org days
(since I never got in through usenet).

I definitely understand the loathing towards social networknig sites,
particularly livejournal, which I can say unequivocally is what
destroyed my former cast. I find myspace to be a bit more user
friendly (and less slanted towards the kind of drama that livejournal
has practically built in), but it's a networking and promotional tool
only for me, not someplace I'd want to see as a nexus or hub.

Nevertheless there needs to BE a nexus or hub. Ideally it should be
the official site, and that is indeed much improved, but there's
always the danger of powers from on high in ANY official site to nix
things they don't want discussed. And if it's not going to be THIS
newsgroup (which let's face it, as has been pointed out, the younger
ROCKY fans don't even KNOW about), then what and where is it to be?

At the same time the reality needs to be faced that the newest
generations of RHPS fans ARE going to be ignorant of so much that we
take for granted, and asking questions that were consolidated for all
of us as far as the first version of the FAQ was done in, what, 1993?
So they can be met with patience and oppennes or derision and scorn.
I've seen both happen on here (and other newsgroups where jaded
veterans and green newcomers collide), quite honestly, but I prefer
the former approach to the latter. New blood needs to be cultivated or
it will be lost, as I've said many times; and the loss of new blood is
all but fatal to this particular patient.

Again, just my opinion...

Matteo
AZRocky.com
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

>
> The Internet is run by stupid people now.
>

This reminds me of a story setup I've had for a while...won't go into
it in tremendous detail, but it basically starts with a group of
computer geeks circa, idk, 1988...talking with great vision about the
future...and what we now know as the internet...and that everything
would revolve around computers, and how they as computer geeks would
get the last laugh, because they'd be the masters of the universe and
show the idiot, ignorant middle class, midwestern hicks how stupid
they would be...

jump cutting to the present day, where they are now all bitterly
working tech support phone jobs, taking "my computer's broken" from
those selfsame idiot middle class, midwestern hicks.

I know...here it is, just thrown out there to the world...I'm trusting
no one on here will do anything with it without my consent. :)

copyright 2007 Matthew Yenkala...

hehe

Matteo
 >> Stay informed about: how to improve newsgroup access 

AZRocky <AZRocky RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Internet is run by stupid people now.
>
> This reminds me of a story setup I've had for a while...won't go into
> it in tremendous detail, but it basically starts with a group of
> computer geeks circa, idk, 1988...talking with great vision about the
> future...and what we now know as the internet...and that everything
> would revolve around computers, and how they as computer geeks would
> get the last laugh, because they'd be the masters of the universe and
> show the idiot, ignorant middle class, midwestern hicks how stupid
> they would be...
>
> jump cutting to the present day, where they are now all bitterly
> working tech support phone jobs, taking "my computer's broken" from
> those selfsame idiot middle class, midwestern hicks.
>
> I know...here it is, just thrown out there to the world...I'm trusting
> no one on here will do anything with it without my consent. :)
>
> copyright 2007 Matthew Yenkala...
> hehe
> Matteo

The Truth(tm) can not be copyrighted ;-)

I do think things are changing. By far the most successful Internet
companies (post-dot.bomb) are built and run by nerds. The ones run by
"business" and "marketing" types have largely crashed and burned. These
are hugely sweeping generalizations of course, but hey that's what I'm
best at. ;-)

To be honest most of the tech support and cage monkey people aren't the
real nerds. The real nerds are making six figures doing development and
sysadmin (cage monkeys aren't admins...they are cage monkeys).

--
-Zenin - "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!"
http://zenin4711.livejournal.com/
http://www.myspace.com/zenin4711
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