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| Author |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 52
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:04 pm
Post subject: An interesting problem with my new (used) console...
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>production>sound (more info?)
|
|
|
Hey all,
Happy new year first of all.
So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
is going on, your input is always appreciated.
The Setup:
6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
playback.
Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
fine.
So...anyone have any clue as to:
1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
2- why tone would be different across tracks?
Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
Thanks.
Koff |
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 | |
External
Since: Aug 02, 2003
Posts: 438
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
I would give Ron at PSC a call. He almost certainly can steer you through
the M8 side of your problem, where I would guess the problem's solution
lies.
D.
<isoundmix.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:414fd9b7-c70c-4a8f-82cd-131d3155703b@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hey all,
> Happy new year first of all.
>
> So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
> is going on, your input is always appreciated.
>
> The Setup:
> 6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
> I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
> primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
> the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
> when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
> gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
> still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
> tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
> headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
> lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
> the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
> on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
> playback.
> Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
> the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
> fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
> line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
> to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
> and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
> point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
> 442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
> fine.
>
> So...anyone have any clue as to:
> 1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
> 2- why tone would be different across tracks?
>
> Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
> a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
> Koff |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: May 31, 2005
Posts: 27
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:57 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 14, 5:04 pm, isound... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> Hey all,
> Happy new year first of all.
>
> So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
> is going on, your input is always appreciated.
>
> The Setup:
> 6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
> I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
> primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
> the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
> when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
> gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
> still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
> tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
> headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
> lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
> the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
> on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
> playback.
> Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
> the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
> fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
> line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
> to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
> and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
> point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
> 442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
> fine.
>
> So...anyone have any clue as to:
> 1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
> 2- why tone would be different across tracks?
>
> Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
> a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
> Koff
Hi Michael,
I sent you a detailed e-mail about your mixer. Sorry it took me 4
hours to answer you, it has been busy here today.
I did not see any difference in output levels between the 4 output
channels, either on the mixer or into your PD-6. We can set the pre-
amp gain to anything you desire. Please go ahead and send the mixer
into PSC and we will take a look at it for you. Be sure to include
your duplex cable with the built in talk back option so I can test
that as well.
Best regards
Ron Meyer >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 02, 2003
Posts: 438
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hmmm.
D.
<ron.DeleteThis@professionalsound.com> wrote in message
news:8032fbe5-d58d-49ed-8621-9c46770950ee@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 14, 5:04 pm, isound....DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hey all,
> Happy new year first of all.
>
> So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
> is going on, your input is always appreciated.
>
> The Setup:
> 6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
> I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
> primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
> the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
> when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
> gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
> still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
> tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
> headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
> lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
> the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
> on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
> playback.
> Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
> the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
> fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
> line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
> to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
> and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
> point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
> 442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
> fine.
>
> So...anyone have any clue as to:
> 1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
> 2- why tone would be different across tracks?
>
> Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
> a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
>
> Thanks.
> Koff
Hi Michael,
I sent you a detailed e-mail about your mixer. Sorry it took me 4
hours to answer you, it has been busy here today.
I did not see any difference in output levels between the 4 output
channels, either on the mixer or into your PD-6. We can set the pre-
amp gain to anything you desire. Please go ahead and send the mixer
into PSC and we will take a look at it for you. Be sure to include
your duplex cable with the built in talk back option so I can test
that as well.
Best regards
Ron Meyer >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 3
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
The Lectrosonics receivers have a lower line output level than has
been traditionally accepted as line level. Where the 401 output level
is quoted as +5dB that means a maximum rather than operating level. My
Venue has a maximum output level of +8dB.
Feeding the Lectro receivers into a mixer line input that nominally
has a more traditional +4dBm operating level and 20dB of headroom
above that will require another 15 - 20 dB of line level gain on the
mixer channel input depending on the average peak levels on the
recievers. Some mixer line inputs might struggle with this amount of
gain.
David Madigan >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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External
Since: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 129
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:00 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 14, 7:34 pm, David Madigan <dav... RemoveThis @ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> The Lectrosonics receivers have a lower line output level than has
> been traditionally accepted as line level. Where the 401 output level
> is quoted as +5dB that means a maximum rather than operating level. My
> Venue has a maximum output level of +8dB.
>
> Feeding the Lectro receivers into a mixer line input that nominally
> has a more traditional +4dBm operating level and 20dB of headroom
> above that will require another 15 - 20 dB of line level gain on the
> mixer channel input depending on the average peak levels on the
> recievers. Some mixer line inputs might struggle with this amount of
> gain.
>
> David Madigan
I'm able to get a good working line level in w/ Lectro 200-series RX
and a PSC M6. I think the mic pres are the same. PSC is very cool
and quite reasonable about tweaks to these older mixers (M8, M6)--they
can change the input gain for you.
Philip Perkins >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 52
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 14, 9:00 pm, Philip Perkins <spami....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 14, 7:34 pm, David Madigan <dav....RemoveThis@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > The Lectrosonics receivers have a lower line output level than has
> > been traditionally accepted as line level. Where the 401 output level
> > is quoted as +5dB that means a maximum rather than operating level. My
> > Venue has a maximum output level of +8dB.
>
> > Feeding the Lectro receivers into a mixer line input that nominally
> > has a more traditional +4dBm operating level and 20dB of headroom
> > above that will require another 15 - 20 dB of line level gain on the
> > mixer channel input depending on the average peak levels on the
> > recievers. Some mixer line inputs might struggle with this amount of
> > gain.
>
> > David Madigan
>
> I'm able to get a good working line level in w/ Lectro 200-series RX
> and a PSC M6. I think the mic pres are the same. PSC is very cool
> and quite reasonable about tweaks to these older mixers (M8, M6)--they
> can change the input gain for you.
>
> Philip Perkins
Philip,
You mention the levels are good on your M6...but you have an M8 as
well correct? I was told you had the input line levels gained up from
PSC for the M8. Is this true, or just hearsay?
M. Koff >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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External
Since: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 3
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 14, 2:57 pm, r....TakeThisOut@professionalsound.com wrote:
> On Jan 14, 5:04 pm, isound....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey all,
> > Happy new year first of all.
>
> > So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
> > is going on, your input is always appreciated.
>
> > The Setup:
> > 6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
> > I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
> > primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
> > the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
> > when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
> > gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
> > still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
> > tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
> > headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
> > lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
> > the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
> > on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
> > playback.
> > Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
> > the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
> > fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
> > line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
> > to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
> > and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
> > point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
> > 442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
> > fine.
>
> > So...anyone have any clue as to:
> > 1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
> > 2- why tone would be different across tracks?
>
> > Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
> > a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
>
> > Thanks.
> > Koff
>
> Hi Michael,
> I sent you a detailed e-mail about your mixer. Sorry it took me 4
> hours to answer you, it has been busy here today.
>
> I did not see any difference in output levels between the 4 output
> channels, either on the mixer or into your PD-6. We can set the pre-
> amp gain to anything you desire. Please go ahead and send the mixer
> into PSC and we will take a look at it for you. Be sure to include
> your duplex cable with the built in talk back option so I can test
> that as well.
> Best regards
> Ron Meyer
If only every company had service like Ron's, Larry's , Sound Devices
(Nicholas and Josh in particular) , and Redding Audio!!! The world
would be a better place.
ian >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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External
Since: Aug 02, 2003
Posts: 438
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hear, hear!
D.
<wrenay.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06df8d0a-e602-447a-972b-65ff15f53374@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 14, 2:57 pm, r....DeleteThis@professionalsound.com wrote:
> On Jan 14, 5:04 pm, isound....DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey all,
> > Happy new year first of all.
>
> > So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
> > is going on, your input is always appreciated.
>
> > The Setup:
> > 6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
> > I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
> > primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
> > the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
> > when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
> > gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
> > still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
> > tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
> > headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
> > lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
> > the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
> > on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
> > playback.
> > Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
> > the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
> > fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
> > line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
> > to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
> > and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
> > point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
> > 442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
> > fine.
>
> > So...anyone have any clue as to:
> > 1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
> > 2- why tone would be different across tracks?
>
> > Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
> > a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
>
> > Thanks.
> > Koff
>
> Hi Michael,
> I sent you a detailed e-mail about your mixer. Sorry it took me 4
> hours to answer you, it has been busy here today.
>
> I did not see any difference in output levels between the 4 output
> channels, either on the mixer or into your PD-6. We can set the pre-
> amp gain to anything you desire. Please go ahead and send the mixer
> into PSC and we will take a look at it for you. Be sure to include
> your duplex cable with the built in talk back option so I can test
> that as well.
> Best regards
> Ron Meyer
If only every company had service like Ron's, Larry's , Sound Devices
(Nicholas and Josh in particular) , and Redding Audio!!! The world
would be a better place.
ian >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 129
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:23 am
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 14, 8:17 pm, isound... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jan 14, 9:00 pm, Philip Perkins <spami... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 7:34 pm, David Madigan <dav... DeleteThis @ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > > The Lectrosonics receivers have a lower line output level than has
> > > been traditionally accepted as line level. Where the 401 output level
> > > is quoted as +5dB that means a maximum rather than operating level. My
> > > Venue has a maximum output level of +8dB.
>
> > > Feeding the Lectro receivers into a mixer line input that nominally
> > > has a more traditional +4dBm operating level and 20dB of headroom
> > > above that will require another 15 - 20 dB of line level gain on the
> > > mixer channel input depending on the average peak levels on the
> > > recievers. Some mixer line inputs might struggle with this amount of
> > > gain.
>
> > > David Madigan
>
> > I'm able to get a good working line level in w/ Lectro 200-series RX
> > and a PSC M6. I think the mic pres are the same. PSC is very cool
> > and quite reasonable about tweaks to these older mixers (M8, M6)--they
> > can change the input gain for you.
>
> > Philip Perkins
>
> Philip,
> You mention the levels are good on your M6...but you have an M8 as
> well correct? I was told you had the input line levels gained up from
> PSC for the M8. Is this true, or just hearsay?
> M. Koff
I just have a (modded) M6, but was told the pres are the same or very
similar. I had numerous tweaks done by the PSC folks to mine--just
calls them up and ask about it.
Philip Perkins >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 52
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 15, 11:01 am, "Douglas Tourtelot" <tourte....RemoveThis@speakeasy.net>
wrote:
> Hear, hear!
>
> D.
>
> <wre....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:06df8d0a-e602-447a-972b-65ff15f53374@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 14, 2:57 pm, r....RemoveThis@professionalsound.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 5:04 pm, isound....RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > Hey all,
> > > Happy new year first of all.
>
> > > So I am going to be as detailed as possible to try to illustrate what
> > > is going on, your input is always appreciated.
>
> > > The Setup:
> > > 6 Lectro Recievers (4 411a and 2 211's) going into a console (PSC M8)
> > > I just picked up, used. Coming out of the PSC M8 and feeding a PD6 as
> > > primary, and 744t as backup. The main issue, is insufficient level on
> > > the console. I want to be able to use a line level on the board, and
> > > when setting the lectros to line level (+5), I have to crank the input
> > > gain, and input faders all the way open to get any levels...and its
> > > still not enough. Likewise, when I put the console on mic level, and
> > > tune the lectros to -50, the same issue. The only way to get adequate
> > > headroom, is to use mic level on the board and about -20dB on the
> > > lectros. This causes me to clip very easily. I find myself riding
> > > the limiter threshold more than the fader. When I do clip, the meters
> > > on the PD6 are still ok, but the audio is NG when listening to
> > > playback.
> > > Another (possibly related) issue...when sending tone out of the M8 to
> > > the decks, the decks read different level of tone. Obviously, all the
> > > fader outputs of the board are wide open (to zero), and the PD6 is at
> > > line in with the gain all the way down (+4). Tone is level according
> > > to the M8's meters, but the PD6 reads a different level on tracks 1
> > > and 5, with 2,3,and 4 being level, where they should be. At this
> > > point I am tearing my hair out. I switch cables around, hook up my
> > > 442, etc. to make sure the PD6 isn't acting up..and the PD6 seems
> > > fine.
>
> > > So...anyone have any clue as to:
> > > 1 - how to get the correct amount of headroom, when using line in?
> > > 2- why tone would be different across tracks?
>
> > > Feel like this may be audio 101 for some of you, but this new board is
> > > a real learning experience for me. Your comments are welcome.
>
> > > Thanks.
> > > Koff
>
> > Hi Michael,
> > I sent you a detailed e-mail about your mixer. Sorry it took me 4
> > hours to answer you, it has been busy here today.
>
> > I did not see any difference in output levels between the 4 output
> > channels, either on the mixer or into your PD-6. We can set the pre-
> > amp gain to anything you desire. Please go ahead and send the mixer
> > into PSC and we will take a look at it for you. Be sure to include
> > your duplex cable with the built in talk back option so I can test
> > that as well.
> > Best regards
> > Ron Meyer
>
> If only every company had service like Ron's, Larry's , Sound Devices
> (Nicholas and Josh in particular) , and Redding Audio!!! The world
> would be a better place.
> ian
Thanks for all your inputs. Luckily, the customer service at PSC is
second to none. Ron and the guys have been more than helpful, making
me just another happy PSC user.
Michael Koff >> Stay informed about: An interesting problem with my new (used) console... |
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