marching band competition

"GM" wrote ...
> I'm covering a live marching band competition (football field,
> multicamera set-up production truck) ....

I thought I had seen one production where they had two (four?) boom
ops with wireless transmitters running around following the band(?)
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

Thank you for presenting a fun problem to think about.

Never having done such a recording, only documentary-type field work with a
marching band, here's my thinking:

1) MULTI-TRACK. Multi-track if they've got the money for significant post
work. Even if they don't, I would, giving them a stereo mix along with split
trax.

Sounds like the perfect application for the Deva 5.

2) MICS: See four stereo arrays N/S/E/W. Cross-fade to the stereo mix as the
band turns.

3) MIC PLACEMENT. Details of mic placement would seem to be a function of
the acoustics of the space. You will wish to place the stereo pairs so that
they receive the most balanced sound insofar as brass / percussion goes.

4) OUTPUT: Send the appropriate pre-fade stereo signals to the appropriate
cameras - allowing camera perspective to be your guide. Or you send everyone
your stereo mix. Producer/director question.

For the one-man band documentary situation, I put an x-y pair in the air -
on a 17-foot boom - and followed the camera perspective. Thought it came out
splendidly. Adjusted balance of instruments by ear. Mic angle. Sometimes
think I was a bit off axis for best results.

Thanks again for the exercise.

Jan

"GM" <gm112 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6Z3Mc.144225$a24.2641@attbi_s03...
> I'm covering a live marching band competition (football field,
> multicamera set-up production truck) Last years video had two main sound
> problems. The first problem is the decrease in volume as the band turns.
> I'm wondering if placing a mic on the far side of the field to capture an
> ambient level might help solve volume changes as the sections turn. The
> second problem is the percussion level overshadowing the brass & woodwind
> sections. As it is a competition, I have no control over the players, or
> rearranging the units. Any hints, suggestions, or solutions as to mics,
> placement, would be appreciated Thanks in advance. Glenn
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

I did sound for a band competition years ago, but had the advantage that
the bands played mostly to a reviewing stand/grandstand. I had tall
support poles in the grandstand that made for good placement.

Thinking out of the box... one approach in your situation might be a
wireless plant mic at the top of the Drum Major's headgear. Of course,
XY stereo would be a problem when the Drum Major turns. Okay, then, how
about an AB stereo approach using the two widest spaced majorettes?

John Blankenship,
Indy



Richard Crowley wrote:
> "GM" wrote ...
>
>> I'm covering a live marching band competition (football field,
>>multicamera set-up production truck) ....
>
>
> I thought I had seen one production where they had two (four?) boom
> ops with wireless transmitters running around following the band(?)
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

I will write a detailed response after I get back from work today.

I was in the Madison Scouts Drum And Bugle Corps in the 80's and tought drum
lines and have lots of experience recording these events. All of the top
corps use the back side bleachers for effect. It is used for soft passages
and reverb effects. Placing mics on the back side will ruin this effect as
well as destroy the timing between the horns and the percussion pit in the
front by the drum major. The perspective should be kept from the front only.
I would not consider placing mics on the backside or in the end zones.
However, It is a good idea to place mics down around the twenty yard lines
but these will need a bit of delay.
Gotta run, but I'll write again later.

Brad Harper


"GM" <gm112.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6Z3Mc.144225$a24.2641@attbi_s03...
> I'm covering a live marching band competition (football field,
> multicamera set-up production truck) Last years video had two main sound
> problems. The first problem is the decrease in volume as the band turns.
> I'm wondering if placing a mic on the far side of the field to capture an
> ambient level might help solve volume changes as the sections turn. The
> second problem is the percussion level overshadowing the brass & woodwind
> sections. As it is a competition, I have no control over the players, or
> rearranging the units. Any hints, suggestions, or solutions as to mics,
> placement, would be appreciated Thanks in advance. Glenn
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

Are you saying that the multiple mic setup is beyond "masterful
cross-fading"; that the physics of the delay make it an impossibility?

Multi-tracks can be adjusted for delay in post.

Look forward to your thoughts on the subject.

Jan

P.S. If you're in the NY area, I know a marching band that rehearses twice a
week. They would probably love someone to come record them for practice.

"Brad Harper" <bradharper.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eb8Mc.11328$eM2.1532@attbi_s51...
> I will write a detailed response after I get back from work today.
>
> I was in the Madison Scouts Drum And Bugle Corps in the 80's and tought
drum
> lines and have lots of experience recording these events. All of the top
> corps use the back side bleachers for effect. It is used for soft passages
> and reverb effects. Placing mics on the back side will ruin this effect as
> well as destroy the timing between the horns and the percussion pit in the
> front by the drum major. The perspective should be kept from the front
only.
> I would not consider placing mics on the backside or in the end zones.
> However, It is a good idea to place mics down around the twenty yard lines
> but these will need a bit of delay.
> Gotta run, but I'll write again later.
>
> Brad Harper
>
>
> "GM" <gm112.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:6Z3Mc.144225$a24.2641@attbi_s03...
> > I'm covering a live marching band competition (football field,
> > multicamera set-up production truck) Last years video had two main sound
> > problems. The first problem is the decrease in volume as the band
turns.
> > I'm wondering if placing a mic on the far side of the field to capture
an
> > ambient level might help solve volume changes as the sections turn. The
> > second problem is the percussion level overshadowing the brass &
woodwind
> > sections. As it is a competition, I have no control over the players,
or
> > rearranging the units. Any hints, suggestions, or solutions as to mics,
> > placement, would be appreciated Thanks in advance. Glenn
> >
> >
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:02:22 -0700, Richard Crowley wrote:

> I thought I had seen one production where they had two (four?) boom
> ops with wireless transmitters running around following the band(?)

Certainly a very effective way of maintaining a constant perspective.
Just hand held no need for the stick... Of course production might
object to having sound chaps walking up and down with the band. This
is very flexable as you can talk to your operators (over radio
talkback) to adjust the balance as required.

To cope with the turns you need "front" and "back" mics and some nifty
cross fading. With fixed mics the time of arrival differences will be
a problem but with walking ones, equidistant from the band, such TOA
differences don't exist. Also getting in relativly close means that
the big close up of the bass drum isn't so far out of sync, 2 frames
is only around 30yds...

--
Cheers new5pam.DeleteThis@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

GM <gm112 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6Z3Mc.144225$a24.2641@attbi_s03...
> I'm covering a live marching band competition (football field,
> multicamera set-up production truck) Last years video had two main sound
> problems. The first problem is the decrease in volume as the band turns.
> I'm wondering if placing a mic on the far side of the field to capture an
> ambient level might help solve volume changes as the sections turn. The
> second problem is the percussion level overshadowing the brass & woodwind
> sections. As it is a competition, I have no control over the players, or
> rearranging the units. Any hints, suggestions, or solutions as to mics,
> placement, would be appreciated Thanks in advance. Glenn
>


I am a marching band junkie. I was the drumline captain and everything.

Anyway....

Your best bet is to put up a stereo pair right in the middle of the top row
on the stands. You DO NOT want to mic the back bleachers. They are empty for
a reason. Like someone said before, if the band is facing that way, it's for
a reason. They are doing it for effect. DO NOT put mics on the goal posts.
DO NOT put a mic anywhere down on the field. If you did, you would need at
least 4-6 stereo pairs, and even then, it wouldn't sound right.

Remember, you are recording a large ensemble, not a small one. Basically,
think about where the band is playing, and where the people are. The field
show is designed in such a way that the best seats will be right in the
middle, and towards the top of the main bleachers. That's where you'll get
the best sound. If you have mics down on the field, you will get close ups
of specific players, or sections, which you don't want. If you put a mic on
the drum major, you will get a really good sound of the pit section, and
nothing else, which you don't want. You have to have the mics a little far
away, and high up, and the top row and middle of the bleachers is the best
place to be. Plus you get great crowd reactions from up there. If you can
get on top of the press box, that would be even better.

In short, I have dealt with this before, and have tried lots of different
ways to do it, and a stereo pair up high sounded the best.

-Dave
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

Dave wrote:

>
> ==SNIP==
>
Your best bet is to put up a stereo pair right in the middle of the
top row
> on the stands...
>
> In short, I have dealt with this before, and have tried lots of different
> ways to do it, and a stereo pair up high sounded the best.


I agree with Dave. That's been my experience, too.

My "headwear" thoughts are just that -- an attempt at thinking "outside
of the box." I haven't tried that approach in this situation.

John Blankenship,
Indy
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition 

John B., Indianapolis <johntakethisout DeleteThis @indytakethisout.net> wrote in message
news:4101c71d$0$54819$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>
>
> Dave wrote:
>
> >
> > ==SNIP==
> >
> Your best bet is to put up a stereo pair right in the middle of the
> top row
> > on the stands...
> >
> > In short, I have dealt with this before, and have tried lots of
different
> > ways to do it, and a stereo pair up high sounded the best.
>
>
> I agree with Dave. That's been my experience, too.
>
> My "headwear" thoughts are just that -- an attempt at thinking "outside
> of the box." I haven't tried that approach in this situation.
>
> John Blankenship,
> Indy


If you have the means, throw mics all over the place if you can, but make
sure you have that stereo pair up. Maybe you might want specific perspective
sound, and having mics on the drum major might be a good thing for that.

-Dave
 >> Stay informed about: marching band competition